New Book By Deepak Chopra

[phee]

Thank you TA...

Asked and answered Steven... I have nothing more to add.

[Steven]

nothing added nothing risked.

did we gain anything in here?

I feel as if I did, and I'm glad for that.

[torn asunder]

well I suppose you and I have different versions of hoops, and we different dance steps too.

here's what i did to Phee - I asked him to satisfy me.

oh yes - i totally did. I asked for his personal interpetation fo those scriptures he introduced. i know thats just torrid stuff there.

your right Mike - I have not spoken to millions of other christians - I dont have access to the resources to do so.

heres what I have done:

spoken to hundreds, over a period of a good 15 years.

taken classes.

taught classes.

classes on biblical truths and interpretation - and not at my church, and Ive had these discussions at seminars where thousands were present - I have done that - MANY times dude.

i have taken my beleifs and discussed them in 3rd world countries with other beleivers - also not from my chruch, of different denomiantions, working side by side with me for the same goals.

i have taken my beleifs to the streets of hollywood, compton, and lynwood, and discussed them with beleivers who are strung out, lost in the bar life, homeless. I have taken my beleifs to gang territory when that territory was hot. I have taken my beleifs to a public medium. I have taken my beleifs to the studio and have had my song played on the Los Angels airwaves - straight up christian perspective set to music. i have interacted with other faiths on thier turf - such as Lutherans during their conversion en masse to support of the gay agenda. I have stood across the lines of christian hate mongorers at abortion clinics and openly opposed them.

I have taken my beleifs and interpetations to various pastors who have allowed me to teach biblical marriage classes - even though some of the ideas I profess to come from scripture they do not agree with.

and I have taken my beleifs to DGN.

only so many hours in a day Mike.

my being difficult is a convenient opinion you have expressed in the past.

But my being willing to put it out there remains unchanged. If that makes me difficult so be it.

this entire post is fricking irrelevant - we're not discussing your lifestyle, we're not discussing how much you preach your beliefs, or how impressive you think it is that you "live" your beliefs to others. it has absolutely no bearing on the ascertation phee has made that the bible (in all it's thousands of varied forms) is completely open for interpretation, and that your particular opinion is not the only one there is.

honestly, if you're doing what you think you should (mentoring/preaching/etc) more power to ya - do your thing, i don't care... but you're in a debate about the misinterpretaion & mistranslation of the bible from its origins. you're discussing whether or not the huge list that phee posted, of all the varying interpretations/variations of the bible, (and that's only the *english* versions) are the true, exact meaning of the words/ideas that jesus of nazareth taught. for future reference, if you're debating something of this nature, and you fall back (as you always do) on all the "ditch digging" you do, on all the "mentoring", all the "this is how i live my life" crap, you will have effectively conceded defeat.

debate the topic, don't try to convince all of us that you're some "amazingly holy" type who is the epitome of your beliefs, and therefore, what you say automatically wins, because you've "been living this all your life" - you've "lived life in the trenches, been through some crappy stuff, had a traumatic childhood", etc... well, good for you - you now have the same life experience as millions of other people in the world. i don't understand how you think any of that is supposed to impress anyone, or elevate you in their eyes in any way. (i know you'll claim you don't do this, and that's fine - but that's the way you come across)

as i said, stick to the topic at hand, debate the proposition being presented, and stop crying "i've had a hard life, but i pulled through, so i'm amazing!' - most everyone else has as well, you're not unique in this., and as i said, it has no bearing on the discussion/debate at hand.

[phee]

Yes...

The only thing that I was talking about at this point is that language and translations over large amount of times changes... In the case of the bible, I presented examples of how this has happened (I am not trying to assert that to any individual that the meanings may be all the same for them).

But that with all of the thousands of different versions in existance, that have changed over time for various reasons... the meanings are interpreted differently by different people... and that it is nearly impossible to know what was originally said in any universal way... everyone has their own spin/beliefs about it.

I honestly don't know where the sentiments came from to begin with in regards to belief and defense there of.

I think part of the point here Steven is just because you as an individual believe that the meanings are "the same" does not mean that you speak for the entire spectrum of all who might read them. If this is what you believe that is fine... good... great.... but I think I have made the point that there are lots of different versions in existance, and many of them differ from one another, and have changed throughout history...

That was at least the topic I was discussing...

[Steven]

this entire post is fricking irrelevant - we're not discussing your lifestyle, we're not discussing how much you preach your beliefs, or how impressive you think it is that you "live" your beliefs to others. it has absolutely no bearing on the ascertation phee has made that the bible (in all it's thousands of varied forms) is completely open for interpretation, and that your particular opinion is not the only one there is.

honestly, if you're doing what you think you should (mentoring/preaching/etc) more power to ya - do your thing, i don't care... but you're in a debate about the misinterpretaion & mistranslation of the bible from its origins. you're discussing whether or not the huge list that phee posted, of all the varying interpretations/variations of the bible, (and that's only the *english* versions) are the true, exact meaning of the words/ideas that jesus of nazareth taught. for future reference, if you're debating something of this nature, and you fall back (as you always do) on all the "ditch digging" you do, on all the "mentoring", all the "this is how i live my life" crap, you will have effectively conceded defeat.

debate the topic, don't try to convince all of us that you're some "amazingly holy" type who is the epitome of your beliefs, and therefore, what you say automatically wins, because you've "been living this all your life" - you've "lived life in the trenches, been through some crappy stuff, had a traumatic childhood", etc... well, good for you - you now have the same life experience as millions of other people in the world. i don't understand how you think any of that is supposed to impress anyone, or elevate you in their eyes in any way. (i know you'll claim you don't do this, and that's fine - but that's the way you come across)

as i said, stick to the topic at hand, debate the proposition being presented, and stop crying "i've had a hard life, but i pulled through, so i'm amazing!' - most everyone else has as well, you're not unique in this., and as i said, it has no bearing on the discussion/debate at hand.

easy there tiger, your vein is showing.

you told me I did not discuss scriptural translational issues with a million christians.

and I told you that Ive done exactly that in many ways in many places for many years with many people.

millions: no.

alotta lotta lotta: yes indeedy.

I wasent talking about preaching dude - I was talking about comparitive biblical beleifs with all sorts of people and all sorts of denominations. You'd be suprized how many people will engage you with that subject, during the weirdest times under the strangest circumstances.

I know none of this is your lifestyle - but in the case of mine your missing the obvious when I answer yrou charges.

[Steven]

I think part of the point here Steven is just because you as an individual believe that the meanings are "the same" does not mean that you speak for the entire spectrum of all who might read them. If this is what you believe that is fine... good... great.... but I think I have made the point that there are lots of different versions in existance, and many of them differ from one another, and have changed throughout history...

That was at least the topic I was discussing...

dude of course you dont speak for everybody.

and neither do I. I actually do get that.

my points - have been simply that y'all boys opinions are also a part of the equasion but just a part, and likewise subject to review.

this is after all DGN - how many christian voices like mine would you expect to hear in here?

[TomCat]

Dude, you mean this thread is not about mi "eses" from Tempe, AZ? You guys and your deep philosophical talk...wow...

[Steven]

Dude, you mean this thread is not about mi "eses" from Tempe, AZ? You guys and your deep philosophical talk...wow...

Odale Pues....Y que estas asiendo calnal??? (and no I cant spell in spanglish - I dont even spell check in english)

[torn asunder]

easy there tiger, your vein is showing.

you told me I did not discuss scriptural translational issues with a million christians.

and I told you that Ive done exactly that in many ways in many places for many years with many people.

millions: no.

alotta lotta lotta: yes indeedy.

I wasent talking about preaching dude - I was talking about comparitive biblical beleifs with all sorts of people and all sorts of denominations. You'd be suprized how many people will engage you with that subject, during the weirdest times under the strangest circumstances.

I know none of this is your lifestyle - but in the case of mine your missing the obvious when I answer yrou charges.

again, your lifestyle has nothing to do with the debate at hand. and no, i didn't say that you "did not discuss scriptural translational issues with a million christians", i said that

"you do not speak for the other millions of x-tian believers who interpret said passages, both differently than you, and differently between each correlating passage."

- at least get your quotes right... and at this point, i have to say that you're discussion with other x-tians again has no bearing on the debate, uness you're trying to tell me that you've never encountered someone who disagrees with you. if that's the case, i call B.S. because phee & i both disagree, just for starters...

i also don't argue the point that people are willing to talk with you about it, i'm sure they are - yet again, that fact has nothing to do with the debate that the bible, in all its varying translations, is open to (mis)interpretation. in fact, this is yet another post that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic being discussed whatsoever!

you need to pay more attention to what you're replying to, and what point you're trying to make, because you're succeeding at neither. stop trying to "digress" us all into submission thru frustration. if you can't answer specific points, don't bother responsing, because you're just wasting people's time.

p.s. i'm not angry in any way, i'm just tired of all of the off-topic crap you post while avoiding the actual topic of discussion. your "ditch-digging" has nothing to do with it - leave it out...

[Steven]

Mike,

Im pretty much tapped out on this thread now, I think we all are. If any of us should be I would think it would be you since you wanted to stop hitting yourself with a brick or something akin to that? For someone who is not upset - you keep returning to this conversation and correcting me. But your in no way upset.....

now....all of this rule setting that you try to impose on me....it works for you, but not for me. Who am I gogin to ask for persmission? Um, me.

I know you dont accept "why" I post the way I do, or why Ive explained things in the manner that I do, or "what" Ive chose to use as an ingredient to what I'm trying to illustrate but in the end that's just too bad. it all makes good sense to me.

The only thing I "need to do" - is to be honest with myself and say what I think I need to say. thats it. and so I do. and i always will, nothing new there.

you try to create this mystique and lay it on me, that I'm being purposefully difficult, and that I'm not so tactfully trying to avoid certain aspects of the conversation, and ultimately that I'm twisting and not playing fair. You also like to be the voice of DGN in telling me how Ive wasted all of your time and how what i say is irrelevant. Im not doing any rule breaking in here Michael - no violation of the standard - and yet your still on me with an air of authority. at least your not upset.

theres no mistyque or secret here - im not that clever. I only say one thing, ever: what I think. thats it. Im pretty consistent. You dont like what I use or that fact that i use my own lifestyle's pivitol moments to make a point, well thats because Im not you - I do what I do. I'm not even sorry about that. Tommorow i imagine I'll do it again.

In terms of decalred relvancy - boy you like to cut and paste. THIS counts - but THIS shall be dismissed under Michael's steady hand of authority and the 10 point must system for the good of the dgn people.

And finnaly, all of this stuff about what I supposedly am or am not succeeding at: Mike - do you really think that YOUR decalration of success or loss is what will motivate how I express myself? Honestly man, dont we categorically disagree on not only most subjects, but also in how we go about expressing ourselves and on the subject of how organic a conversation should go ??? You KNOW we've clashed over what you feel is quality control over what i feel is your need to comntrol in general, you know that. So when you say stuff like this to me its just more of the same. And so once more, I simply disagree.

Relax. everybody is going to say their thing, state their case, and express themselves. The more you try to tell me what I can and cannot do within the context of a pretty civil conversation, the more I'll do what I want.

youd be amazed what kind of results you'd get from me if you just asked me questions as opposed to trying to steer me into your accpetable idea of debate or conversation.

thats all I got.

Steven

[pharoh]

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Wow. and still... This third Jesus thing is stil lthe largest pile of steaming crap I have ever read about.

[pharoh]

Wow. and still... This third Jesus thing is stil lthe largest pile of steaming crap I have ever read about.