Religious Freedom In Waterford, Mi?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You're mistaken. They don't, not can't. Sanctuary is not a formal law of any sort. It's an old custom that people/churches occasionally use (Largely with respect to illegal immigrants and deportation) in modern times. If police really wanted to arrest someone in a church, there's nothing, not even the priest, that can stop it.

Show us evidence or quit wasting our time.

If the feds cant go into a Church to arrest an illegal immigrant then they sure as fuck can't go into a Church to arrest a choir.

Do me a favor... just try searching for the words Sanctuary and Law. Thatwill give you soemthing to do while instead of wasting my time.

[Msterbeau]

If the feds cant go into a Church to arrest an illegal immigrant then they sure as fuck can't go into a Church to arrest a choir.

Do me a favor... just try searching for the words Sanctuary and Law. Thatwill give you soemthing to do while instead of wasting my time.

I did exactly what you said already. Nothing I found says they can't go in if they want to. They CHOOSE not to go in because of the bad PR it would engender. Where's your proof that they can't? I'm not obligated to make your point. Do you ever read what anybody posts Mark? You just keep rehashing your point thinking that will convince us.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yes. I read all the posts. I read your because even though I know what your stance on any given subject is going to be, I like to see the creative way your try to justify it.

I never said that it was written Law. I said they "can't"

Observed Law is what really matters, not whats written. There are a great many laws that a written but not observed.

If they walk into a Church and start arresting people their lives are going to be destroyed in the public eye. There are a great many cases that come up of Law enforcement observing Sanctuary for fear of the repercussions.

Now, why don't you stop focusing on this little part of the equation and address they other points brought up. The ones that very strongly point to the Prosecutor holding some kind of grudge against the Church. That will be a bit of a stretch for you.. you will have to put your obvious anti-Christian bias aside and look at the case objectively.

Just tell me this.. why did the Prosecutor go out on a noise complaint?

Why does the Church claim to have a recording of the Prosecuter making remarks that the rock they wre playing was not Christian music.?

That should make it wasy for you.

[Steven]

yes, i'm well aware that you're intentionally trying to antagonize me.

and ditto to you sir.

but in this case, I was just waiting for you .....

[Steven]

the cops cant arrest anyone in the Church unles the Church allows them to.

Just tell me this.. why did the Prosecutor go out on a noise complaint?

Why does the Church claim to have a recording of the Prosecuter making remarks that the rock they wre playing was not Christian music.?

Bingo (bango)

[Steven]

by the way I've noticed that nobody touched the Bar on Ford road comparison that I offerred up.

[phee]

by the way I've noticed that nobody touched the Bar on Ford road comparison that I offerred up.

*phee touches it gently*

[Homicidalheathen]

OHMYGOD I used to go there this cracks me up.

church choirs are one of the best places to learn to sing.

God thats so funny I can't believe they wanted to arrest them lol

Maybe they should call it 'orderly' conduct lol

I got arrested for orderly conduct in the name of the lord........Ha!

Thats one of the GOOD things about church these days........the music has improved like 100%

Hell now they not only have organs but electric guitars and EVERYTHING it rocks.

[Steven]

*phee touches it gently*

that'll make you go blind you know

[Steven]

OHMYGOD I used to go there this cracks me up.

church choirs are one of the best places to learn to sing.

God thats so funny I can't believe they wanted to arrest them lol

Maybe they should call it 'orderly' conduct lol

I got arrested for orderly conduct in the name of the lord........Ha!

Thats one of the GOOD things about church these days........the music has improved like 100%

Hell now they not only have organs but electric guitars and EVERYTHING it rocks.

true. ours rocks.

my pastor got complaints from certain traditionalists when I did a nickleback song on the main stage at church.

it was loud rock and roll. and I did it rock and roll style.

but I was asked by the pastor to do the song - because of the lyrics that talked about struggling with faith.

afterward the votes were split up the middle - half loved it - half hated it because they felt it was "innapropriate" for church.

pastors have been bounced from chruches due to their not meeting a set "standard" enforced by church boards.

church boards are quite often - made up of wealthy or influential people within the community.

although Torn and Phee (and Marc??) may have thought I was talkign about outside persecution when I started this thread....I really wasent.

[phee]

although Torn and Phee (and Marc??) may have thought I was talkign about outside persecution when I started this thread....I really wasent.

I actually was talking about noise complaints....

[Steven]

I actually was talking about noise complaints....

cool.

and stop touching that

[bean]

The bar on Ford road thing:

If they were cranking out some shit at 8am, you bet your ass I'd be calling the cops about the noise. But, I wouldn't choose to live next to something that I know is going to be noisy.

I'd call the cops on the asshole that lives behind me the next time he lets his dog out at 4am and lets it bark for an hour straight.

[phee]

If I am woken up by anything from the outside noise when I could sleep in... I am going to be pissed off, whether it is church music, a buzz saw, or even my favorite music in the world... if it's blaring from the outside and it's noisey and complained about, it should be treated the same...

My opinion really has nothing to do with whether it is religious, let alone Christian or not.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

OK, maybe you guys should read the article.

this happened at evening services.

[phee]

OK, maybe you guys should read the article.

this happened at evening services.

Still doesn't change my sentiments... lets just say that I am putting my kids to bed in the evening.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

At 6 or 7 o'clock?

Thats what time period this is going on. Not 9 or 10pm or 7 or 8 am...

Early Evening.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and still.. noone has told me when Prosecutors starting going out to investigate and enforce noise complaints.

[phee]

At 6 or 7 o'clock?

Thats what time period this is going on. Not 9 or 10pm or 7 or 8 am...

Early Evening.

OK... lets say they are doing it at 4pm when they are trying to do homework, or 6pm during dinner, or in the morning, or the evening... noise polution is noise polution.

[torn asunder]

OK... lets say they are doing it at 4pm when they are trying to do homework, or 6pm during dinner, or in the morning, or the evening... noise polution is noise polution.

you can't win, phee - "resistance is futile"

[phee]

you can't win, phee - "resistance is futile"

I know... its a discussion with the word "church" in it... therefore all logic and reason are irrelivent... perhaps if I picked a specific religion to argue from I could use the "because that's just what I believe" catch all... and defeat all others...

[Rayne]

At 6 or 7 o'clock?

Thats what time period this is going on. Not 9 or 10pm or 7 or 8 am...

Early Evening.

My kids are *usually* in bed (although not yet asleep) by 7:30 at the latest.

When they were babies, usually 6.

I don't care who or where the noise was coming from.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

And still... noone is answering my direct questions about this.

[freydis]

From a Free Press article on the matter:

The Waterford church's suit is a counterclaim that follows one filed in Oakland County Circuit Court in February by one of the church's neighbors, Timothy Carlson.

Carlson's suit seeks a court order reducing the volume of rock music and other songs practiced and played as part of the worship service.

"When you can hear the noise, inside a residence across the street with the doors and windows closed, it's too loud," said Carlson's lawyer, Andrew Paluda. "Our suit has nothing to do with religion. It's about noise."

[phee]

And still... noone is answering my direct questions about this.

Actually I answered the questions you asked me....