Religious Freedom In Waterford, Mi?

[freydis]

Oakland Press:

Not about religion

Timothy Carlson has lived across from Faith Baptist for several years, said his attorney Andrew Paluda of Paluda Smolek in Troy.

Carlson is married and "just wants to sit in his yard and have a barbecue," said Paluda.

Paluda said Carlson repeatedly requested that the church address the noise problem.

"When the situation wasn't remedied, he was forced to retain counsel to seek relief," Paluda said.

Paluda stressed the complaint has nothing to do with religion.

"They can conduct any religious service they want in the confines of their church. The problem is that the noise escaping from the church infringes on the neighbors' right to use and enjoy their own residences. They are in violation of township noise ordinances."

Paluda reported noise levels during services have been recorded above 70 decibels.

Same article:

This isn't the first time Faith Baptist officials have locked horns with Waterford Township.

In 2004, Solden filed a lawsuit against his opponent, Republican Kris Dreyer, in that year's supervisor race, stating that Jim Combs' son, Joshua Combs, and his wife listed an invalid address on Dreyer's nominating petitions. Dreyer was eventually allowed to run, but he lost to Solden.

Joshua Combs also ran for the Waterford school board that same year but was charged with falsifying a school board election affidavit. Prosecutors stated he indicated he lived in Waterford but reported he was temporarily living in Clarkston while a new home was being built in Waterford. Combs later pleaded guilty and served probation.

[freydis]

Honestly?

It sounds like the whole thing boils down to personal problems between the city of Waterford and the church leaders. A few of the articles detailed that it wasn't the first time the two had clashed, and those other times really had nothing to do with the church.

The noise complaint might have been convenient.

However, I still *do* think that noise is noise.

And as for those bars on Ford road? Whatever the noise ordinances are for that area, they still have to follow them. Generally, that's why the buildings are usually insulated. Also, there may be a difference in noise ordinance laws according to zoning, I have no idea. I might go look that up.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I've been researching this... look for more on it out there... there is more info. There may ahve been 10 compaints.. but they are all from 1 man. He has to be in his yard to hear the noise... not his house.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and munin.. yeah, way more going on here than noise or religion.

[pharoh]

For the suit to be valid, wouldn't there have to be multiple complaints to be put in by more than just the one guy?

Torn/Phee come off it guys this has nothing to do with religion or church, if it was a rec center bar or whatever it would still be the same things....one guy, who has lived over there already for 7 years has a hair up his ass and started the complaints.

Easiest way to fix all this. Have someone go out there with a decible meter, and go whatever distance they can agree on, and take multiple tests from multiple services.....if it is over, then make them turn it down.

[phee]

This is my whole point it has nothing to do with Church.... this thread was titled: "Religious Freedom In Waterford, Mi?, it always starts with the little things....." My whole argument is that it wasn't about religion

Torn/Phee come off it guys this has nothing to do with religion or church, if it was a rec center bar or whatever it would still be the same things....one guy, who has lived over there already for 7 years has a hair up his ass and started the complaints.

And agree with

Easiest way to fix all this. Have someone go out there with a decible meter, and go whatever distance they can agree on, and take multiple tests from multiple services.....if it is over, then make them turn it down.

[pharoh]

But when you have comments on here that start with "resistance is futile" and respond with:

I know... its a discussion with the word "church" in it... therefore all logic and reason are irrelivent... perhaps if I picked a specific religion to argue from I could use the "because that's just what I believe" catch all... and defeat all others...

What are others supposed to think?

Thats just taking jabs at people, plain and simple.

[torn asunder]

Torn/Phee come off it guys this has nothing to do with religion or church, if it was a rec center bar or whatever it would still be the same things....one guy, who has lived over there already for 7 years has a hair up his ass and started the complaints.

did you actually read this thread?

[phee]

But when you have comments on here that start with "resistance is futile" and respond with:

What are others supposed to think?

Thats just taking jabs at people, plain and simple.

the point was that because the noise complaint was about a CHURCH, that it would be made into a religious discussion whether it is about it or not.

[pharoh]

the point was that because the noise complaint was about a CHURCH, that it would be made into a religious discussion whether it is about it or not.

Has it gone down that road?

[phee]

Has it gone down that road?

This is the title of the thread...

Religious Freedom In Waterford, Mi?, it always starts with the little things.....

It started on that road.

[pharoh]

did you actually read this thread?

Yes I did, and my response was rather short, and I probably should of elaborated more in my post, but I didn't feel it was necessary. I knew after I posted it that one of ya would pick it apart, but frankly I don't care. If you have such a negative attitude towards anything like this or because of the posters then why put yourself out there and further more if you don't have anything constructive to add the why waste your time or others?

[phee]

Yes I did, and my response was rather short, and I probably should of elaborated more in my post, but I didn't feel it was necessary. I knew after I posted it that one of ya would pick it apart, but frankly I don't care. If you have such a negative attitude towards anything like this or because of the posters then why put yourself out there and further more if you don't have anything constructive to add the why waste your time or others?

Just out of curiousity,

when you say "like this"... what is that in reference to? Just trying to understand where you are comming from

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

can we go back to something... relevant?

[phee]

can we go back to something... relevant?

Indeed

[torn asunder]

Yes I did, and my response was rather short, and I probably should of elaborated more in my post, but I didn't feel it was necessary. I knew after I posted it that one of ya would pick it apart, but frankly I don't care. If you have such a negative attitude towards anything like this or because of the posters then why put yourself out there and further more if you don't have anything constructive to add the why waste your time or others?

this is why i said "resistance is futile" - there is a select group of people on this board that, no matter what is being said, no matter how clearly a point is made, they will always relate it back to religion/religious persecution. there is no point to debating anything with them, because it's impossible to win - they're either to stubborn to admit they might be wrong, or they get off on antagonizing others just up to, but not crossing, the "breaking the rules" line.

i'm not even sure why you jumped in on this thread at this point, other than you felt left out & wanted to stir the pot as well. aren't you wasting *your* time? how was this series of posts of yours constructive?

[torn asunder]

can we go back to something... relevant?

only until someone else gets a hair up their ass...

[pharoh]

This is the title of the thread...

It started on that road.

Ok re-re reading it, it go down that road at first, I will take what I said about that back, but the thread was left open to discuss, and after all the religious aspects were talked about, it went to a different angle and was not going back down that road. Phee, with that comment was taking a shot plain and simple. Your my buddy and all but I'm sorry I gotta call you out on it. There was no reason for it.

[phee]

Ok re-re reading it, it go down that road at first, I will take what I said about that back, but the thread was left open to discuss, and after all the religious aspects were talked about, it went to a different angle and was not going back down that road. Phee, with that comment was taking a shot plain and simple. Your my buddy and all but I'm sorry I gotta call you out on it. There was no reason for it.

I agree that two wrongs do not make a right.

[pharoh]

Just out of curiousity,

when you say "like this"... what is that in reference to? Just trying to understand where you are comming from

Sure no problem, anything in regards to church or religous subjects.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

this is why i said "resistance is futile" - there is a select group of people on this board that, no matter what is being said, no matter how clearly a point is made, they will always relate it back to religion/religious persecution. there is no point to debating anything with them, because it's impossible to win - they're either to stubborn to admit they might be wrong, or they get off on antagonizing others just up to, but not crossing, the "breaking the rules" line.

i'm not even sure why you jumped in on this thread at this point, other than you felt left out & wanted to stir the pot as well. aren't you wasting *your* time? how was this series of posts of yours constructive?

the reverse can also be said Torn. There is a group on the board that will always, no matter how wrong they are, side against a church.

and the whole "they get off on antagonizing others just up to, but not crossing, the "breaking the rules" line." best describes people on that side of the aisle (the anti-Christian side). I can think of one that disrupts almost every topic with some remark that has nothing to do with the conversation... on the surface is just a funny remark.. but is really just another insult wearing a veil.

[torn asunder]

the reverse can also be said Torn. There is a group on the board that will always, no matter how wrong they are, side against a church.

and the whole "they get off on antagonizing others just up to, but not crossing, the "breaking the rules" line." best describes people on that side of the aisle (the anti-Christian side). I can think of one that disrupts almost every topic with some remark that has nothing to do with the conversation... on the surface is just a funny remark.. but is really just another insult wearing a veil.

well, fuck it, gaf - since it's ok for people to intentionally be an ass, just up to, but not breaking the rules, why shouldn't everyone be allowed to be that way!? would you care to take this to pm's?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

sure. Whats got you so upset?

[pharoh]

this is why i said "resistance is futile" - there is a select group of people on this board that, no matter what is being said, no matter how clearly a point is made, they will always relate it back to religion/religious persecution. there is no point to debating anything with them, because it's impossible to win - they're either to stubborn to admit they might be wrong, or they get off on antagonizing others just up to, but not crossing, the "breaking the rules" line.

i'm not even sure why you jumped in on this thread at this point, other than you felt left out & wanted to stir the pot as well. aren't you wasting *your* time? how was this series of posts of yours constructive?

Why is does it have to be to win Torn, there is no doubt that there are people here that just don't mesh well....I think we can both agree on that right? And we all have our "stubborn moments" as well, but that really is irrellevant. This thread was not antagonistic other than a comment that was left in the beginning of the thread.

As for my "Jumping on the thread because I felt left out and wanted to stir the pot" I post when I can, I don't have time like I used to, I try to key in when I can (and I have started posting more frequently thank you). and while I had some time to burn while I imaged this computer at work, I jumped on the thread and seen what you two posted. I am tired of the favortism that the mods get shit like this is posted and nobody gets put in check over it. Constructive? Probably not.....do I care? Not really. Take shots at me if you want dude, but it doesn't bother me a bit.

[Steven]

OK, maybe you guys should read the article.

this happened at evening services.

double bingo (bango)