Gas Prices Part II

[freydis]

i just moved into a commute that definately wouldnt support bus transport. Just not freaking possible. I live out in the bloody country, and work in a city about half an hour by highway away.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Ok, I risk a flame-storm, but...

Every house in America has electricity. A kilowatt of electricity averages ten cents in this country. A kilowatt of electricity will propel a car five miles or so. We have the battery technology today to go fifty miles on one charge. The average commute is less than forty miles.

ok...thats what it costs NOW....betcha they raise the prices, or find a way for a limited charge type....cuz it would only be smart to do, financially.

[phee]

i just moved into a commute that definately wouldnt support bus transport. Just not freaking possible. I live out in the bloody country, and work in a city about half an hour by highway away.

What about tractors? Or maybe join a cattle drive?

[Rev.Reverence]

Ok, I risk a flame-storm, but...

Every house in America has electricity. A kilowatt of electricity averages ten cents in this country. A kilowatt of electricity will propel a car five miles or so. We have the battery technology today to go fifty miles on one charge. The average commute is less than forty miles.

The Chevy Volt is green lighted.

I predict that half of the new car fleet in ten years will have some electric complement to the internal combustion engine.

We have the technology to convert every drop of flue gas from coal power plants into biodiesel from algae. We get half of our electricity from coal. We have 200 years worth of coal.

United Solar Ovonics is hiring 400 people in Greenville. The Chevy Volt is Green lighted. Coal companies can sell what was once waste as fuel.

There's a gas crisis?

What is this "green lighted"...

[Head Wreck]

green lighted = got the go ahead and make them

[ttogreh]

Ok, I risk a flame-storm, but...

Every house in America has electricity. A kilowatt of electricity averages ten cents in this country. A kilowatt of electricity will propel a car five miles or so. We have the battery technology today to go fifty miles on one charge. The average commute is less than forty miles.

ok...thats what it costs NOW....betcha they raise the prices, or find a way for a limited charge type....cuz it would only be smart to do, financially.

Yes, it is obviously true that increased demand will affect the supply, and thereby the cost. However, a fifty mile charge at ten cents a kilowatt is a dollar. At twenty cents, it's two dollars. A DOUBLING of the cost is practically painless. Moreover, since plug-in hybrids will have gasoline tanks, they could stockpile their gasoline, thereby making prices for both commodities competitive with one another.

Remember, petroleum has been king shit as the motive energy carrier since the 1920s. It simply has not needed to compete with natural gas, electricity, propane, hydrogen, ethanol, butanol, or biodiesel.

Let's say natural gas got a five per cent market share, propane got a two and a half, ethanol got a ten percent market share, butanol got a two and a half, Hydrogen got a two and a half, electricity got a 20 per cent market share, and Biodiesel got a two and a half market share in the coming ten years.

That's a cut of forty five per cent of the motive energy market. Petroleum has a ninety five per cent cut right now.

Now, the oil cartels can sell their product on the open market. A forty five per cent loss in market share in North America would simply mean they can kill any alternatives budding in China and India.

Energy companies, like BP, Conoco Phillips, Shell... they will want in on this new paradigm shift. Shell can sell diesel and gasoline in China, and solar panels and natural gas in North America.

Every house in North America has electricity. United Solar Ovonics is hiring 400 new people in Greenville. The Chevy Volt is green lighted.

There is no gas crisis. There is a motive energy opportunity.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Yes, it is obviously true that increased demand will affect the supply, and thereby the cost. However, a fifty mile charge at ten cents a kilowatt is a dollar. At twenty cents, it's two dollars. A DOUBLING of the cost is practically painless. Moreover, since plug-in hybrids will have gasoline tanks, they could stockpile their gasoline, thereby making prices for both commodities competitive with one another.

I'm not talking "doubling"...doubling would be what they do instantly....I'm talking MUCH larger costs....so bypass tripling....quad.....take it straight to quints and higher.....thats part of what I been trying to explain, TT, is that one way or another...their gonna get every possible cent out of it that they can....

every house in North America has electricity

well thats a blatant falsehood

Edited June 5, 2008 by GodfallenPromos

[ttogreh]

If a household does not have electricity, chances are they either don't want electricity, or have bigger worries than motive energy costs.

Nice try with that strawman, though.

Electricity has to remain competitive, and if electrical utilities don't want to lose their shirts to solar panels, micro wind, and the simple act of turning off the TV, they will have to raise their rates slowly. Motive energy should be a cash cow for electrical utilities, not a reason for people to drop off the grid.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

If a household does not have electricity, chances are they either don't want electricity, or have bigger worries than motive energy costs.

Nice try with that strawman, though.

Electricity has to remain competitive, and if electrical utilities don't want to lose their shirts to solar panels, micro wind, and the simple act of turning off the TV, they will have to raise their rates slowly. Motive energy should be a cash cow for electrical utilities, not a reason for people to drop off the grid.

ummm...it's fact...there are lots of houses that don't have electricity...because they don't NEED it in the lives of the people in the household...but those ppl still have cars....

and honestly....solar panels, and micro wind will NEVER replace electricity as the main energy of the human home on a whole. and when I say "on a whole", I mean as the major source.

Companies that have been doing this kind of stuff for years are vicious...you have to be...it's the only way to make it...and honestly....if stepping on people on the way gets you to the top of the pile....and you want to be at the top of the pile that bad....you'll do it without a second thought.

There are times, just with this business....that I want to be something in this industry so bad...that I know that, if given the oppertunity and if the timing was right...I would leave everyone behind to get ahead....but thats the mentality of a business man who wants to be with the rest of the top dogs....

[ttogreh]

I do not dispute that grid electricity is here to stay. However, the business model for grid electricity in the next ten years is poised to change. The price per watt for solar panels has cratered since the late 1970s. By the way, Carter put the panels ON the White House, and Reagan took them OFF.

California has a million solar roof initiative, and most states have some form of net metering. What net metering is, by the way, is that the utility must buy extra electricity from houses with solar panels, by law.

Since electricity is more expensive during the day, a single solar panel will immediately start saving a family money.

Electrical utilities serve at the pleasure of the state legislature. Electricity is about to change the face of motive energy.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I do not dispute that grid electricity is here to stay. However, the business model for grid electricity in the next ten years is poised to change. The price per watt for solar panels has cratered since the late 1970s. By the way, Carter put the panels ON the White House, and Reagan took them OFF.

California has a million solar roof initiative, and most states have some form of net metering. What net metering is, by the way, is that the utility must buy extra electricity from houses with solar panels, by law.

I would sincerely love to see that...the California bit....but I'm just not sure it's gonna fly with the rest of the US as a whole...specially when most of the US views Cali as a state of wackos...comon....fish tacos....a midget, a pornstar, an action hero, and a homeless guy were on the ballot for governer...in ONE year.....

also....don't put solar panels on the white house...that just looks stupid...lol

[Oh_My_Goth]

I had a gas problem once.....I just stopped eating cabbage.....

[Vater Araignee]

click--->This post still holds true<---click

[Head Wreck]

well hello there Vater, long time no see

[Rev.Reverence]

I will tell you this, the war really has nothing to do with oil. I've been to Iraq twice, and it doesn't matter what goes on, gas prices keep rising.

If we go to war with Iran, it won't matter either. The whole 2 years I spent in Iraq, never once was any of it about oil. It wasn't even talked about.

ALL the greatest military tacticians through the ages acknowledge the fact that an Army marches on it's belly...and since we have so many Hummers, Tanks, Airplanes, Helicopters, Boats, Supply Trucks, Jeeps...the list goes on I am sure...how can we say that the 'War Machine' does not effect it in any way?

[Rev.Reverence]

ummm...it's fact...there are lots of houses that don't have electricity...because they don't NEED it in the lives of the people in the household...but those ppl still have cars....

and honestly....solar panels, and micro wind will NEVER replace electricity as the main energy of the human home on a whole. and when I say "on a whole", I mean as the major source.

Companies that have been doing this kind of stuff for years are vicious...you have to be...it's the only way to make it...and honestly....if stepping on people on the way gets you to the top of the pile....and you want to be at the top of the pile that bad....you'll do it without a second thought.

There are times, just with this business....that I want to be something in this industry so bad...that I know that, if given the oppertunity and if the timing was right...I would leave everyone behind to get ahead....but thats the mentality of a business man who wants to be with the rest of the top dogs....

WHO...has NO electricity but has a CAR.....

[Hellion]

The f$#@ing oil companies are pissing most other countries off check the link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080609/ts_af...energytransport

[littlepinkkitty]

I am going to sprout wings and fly everywhere. Fairy wings. Yes that sounds good.

[ttogreh]

Long-Haul Trucks may very well no longer be diesel engine powered in the coming years. Apparently, turbine engines can run on damn near any combustible fuel, and are thirty per cent more efficient than diesel engines. Check out this link for more information. The only roadblock seems to be the cost of these engines. However, if a government program subsidized a retrofit / replacement program, we could see a significant reduction in diesel fuel consumption as new trucks replace the old ones. Economies of scale would eventually bring the price of turbine engines in line with diesel engines.

Msterbeau, I screw anything up with that?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

WHO...has NO electricity but has a CAR.....

I have relatives in AZ that have no electricity, but own two cars

[ttogreh]

Yes, but the fact is, it is a personal choice to not have electricity on this continent. Now, granted, some households may be under dire, dire, dire poverty, and cannot AFFORD electricity, but chances are, if they COULD afford it, they WOULD have it.

North America, for all practical purposes, is completely electrified. I should have qualified my statement, but the fact of the matter is, that this is still a straw-man.

[Vater Araignee]

Yes, but the fact is, it is a personal choice to not have electricity on this continent. Now, granted, some households may be under dire, dire, dire poverty, and cannot AFFORD electricity, but chances are, if they COULD afford it, they WOULD have it.

North America, for all practical purposes, is completely electrified. I should have qualified my statement, but the fact of the matter is, that this is still a straw-man.

So I can better understand you last statement would you please clarify you usage of straw man?

To me the first image that pops up is "NAME" to others I'm sure they see "misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

[Rev.Reverence]

So I can better understand you last statement would you please clarify you usage of straw man?

To me the first image that pops up is "NAME" to others I'm sure they see "misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

I believe he is saying "argument that does not hold anything up and is easily burned"...

[Vater Araignee]

I believe he is saying "argument that does not hold anything up and is easily burned"...

Well this is why I get my self into a lot of trouble speaking to people.

There are so many allegories that have so many meaning as to make them useless.

Straw man

To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).

A third party that acts as a "front" in a transaction (i.e., who is an agent for another) for the purpose of taking title to real property, breaking a joint tenancy, or engaging in some other kind of transaction where the principal remains hidden or to do something else which is not allowed.

The fact that a straw man has the shape of a man, but has nothing but (symbolically) worthless straw inside, makes it a symbol for people regarded as lacking needed qualities.

A straw man is also "a person of no means," or one who deliberately accepts a liability or other monetary responsibility without the resources to fulfill it, usually to shield another party.

as you see more than one (though not all) of these examples could have been applied.

[Rev.Reverence]

Well this is why I get my self into a lot of trouble speaking to people.

There are so many allegories that have so many meaning as to make them useless.

Straw man

To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).

A third party that acts as a "front" in a transaction (i.e., who is an agent for another) for the purpose of taking title to real property, breaking a joint tenancy, or engaging in some other kind of transaction where the principal remains hidden or to do something else which is not allowed.

The fact that a straw man has the shape of a man, but has nothing but (symbolically) worthless straw inside, makes it a symbol for people regarded as lacking needed qualities.

A straw man is also "a person of no means," or one who deliberately accepts a liability or other monetary responsibility without the resources to fulfill it, usually to shield another party.

as you see more than one (though not all) of these examples could have been applied.

AH...an etymologist eh?...