Gas Prices Part II

[Rayne]

And we drive cars that get like 8 miles per gallon.

Mine gets about 32 miles a gallon. That's about average for a newer small car.

It's the people driving vans, trucks and SUV's that not only have the much bigger tanks but the really low gas mileage too .... they are paying anywhere between 2 - 3 times more than the average small car owner for gas these days.

I would not want to be an SUV/truck/van dealer these days.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Rayne
I forgot about trucks.

[ttogreh]

GM just shut down four Truck and SUV plants... I will bet you a gallon of gas that they will be retooled for small cars.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

What's the whole amount for gas at usa at the moment?

At germany we pay today for one liter gas about 1,50 Euro. Meantime for diesel oil it's the same.

That's among other things the reason why I have no car.

I'm participating in a citys project called "Carsharing", so I can use a car of a bigger carpark if I need one.

Fledermaus

Its hovering near $1 a liter ($4 a gallon) in the US.

I just heard a story on NPR like 2 hours ago that says its $9 a gallon ($3.5 a liter) in the UK.

[ttogreh]

Strike that... reverse it. There are about four liters in a gallon.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Strike that... reverse it. There are about four liters in a gallon.

Oops yeah *magicly reverses the numbers*

[sass_in_the_pants]

Mine gets about 32 miles a gallon. That's about average for a newer small car.

It's the people driving vans, trucks and SUV's that not only have the much bigger tanks but the really low gas mileage too .... they are paying anywhere between 2 - 3 times more than the average small car owner for gas these days.

I would not want to be an SUV/truck/van dealer these days.

Or an RV dealer. Yikes.

[ttogreh]

Maybe an RV dealer that sells diesel RVs and owns a waste grease processing plant on the side...

[Fledermaus]

Strike that... reverse it. There are about four liters in a gallon.

Ooops, sorry. I forgot that you have different units

So, one liter = 0,26 gallon and 1 $ = 0,65 Euro

In germany one gallon would cost about 8,78 $, correct?

I had a look to other european countrys and their gas prices. At Danmark gas costs 1,68 Euro (9,94 $?), at Great Britain 1,57 (9,32 $?)

(source: http://www.adac.de/Auto_Motorrad/Tanken/Ta...nd/default.asp)

I hope my calculation is correkt, I'm a lousy mathematician ^^

And we drive cars that get like 8 miles per gallon.

I like these impressive colossal american cars, particularly the old ones. They are pretty cool! But I can't understand how to drive them although under ecological aspects

For commuter the topical gas prices are always hard I think :( Doesn't matter at wich place of the world you are living. In every case it it follows a negative change with your financial affairs

Till last year my friend and me had an old VW-Bus, running with diesel oil. We changed the car over to canola oil and payed for one liter only 85 cent = 1,31 &. That was a great time! *g* But the pretty black old "Mathilde" is now off our hands and sold *sigh*

Fledermaus

Edited June 4, 2008 by Fledermaus

[Rayne]

Maybe an RV dealer that sells diesel RVs and owns a waste grease processing plant on the side...

My parents live in a 40 ft motorhome. Luckily its parked in a full time spot in an RV park or they wouldn't be able to afford the gas. .... Come to think of it, they haven't taken it anywhere but back to the dealer for service since they got it. I wonder why they bought it.

They talk every year about trading it for a diesel engine one, but they never do.

[Msterbeau]

What I'm appalled at is the fact that car's weight has gone up significantly over the past decade and a half. That has had a huge effect on fuel economy. The Chevy Sprint Xfi and Honda CRX HF, both fuel economy specials from the late 80's and early 90's, both weighed around 1800lbs. They each got high 50's for mileage. Simple, cheap, lightweight cars. No hybrid tech, no diesels. A current Chevy Aveo is about the same size. Weight? 2400-2500lbs. Almost 700lbs heavier!!! WTF!! Consumers want safe cars, and that additional structure pays dividends in handling and having a solid feeling car... but is it worth the compromise in safety? Not in my book. Those of you that want to drive tanks... should stop complaining right now. Cars have so many damn features... marketing keeps adding in more and more so they have something to shout about at new model intro.... Do we really need all that stuff? Probably not. Modern engine tech in a reasonably lightweight car would get amazing mileage.

[Msterbeau]

My bad... The Metro Xfi was down near 1600lbs.. Holy shit that's light!!!

[ttogreh]

Would such a light vehicle pass today's safety standards, let alone emissions?

[Head Wreck]

i am very much considering a jag X type for next car.

same group of insurance banding as some of the cars i am considering and same CO2 emissions as a smart car, but a little less fuel consump at 40 miles per gallon, but its like 2 grand cheaper for a car 2 years younger.

economically sound atm, plus theres a staisfaction i have owned a jaguar in my life (even if it is a reshelled ford mondeo), and its a classier car than most of my managers and thier managers so wouldput my mood right at the end of a shitty day

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Would such a light vehicle pass today's safety standards, let alone emissions?

only if you used honey comb structuring in the body work would it pass safety standards...but it also increases the manufacturing price of the car quite a bit....thats one of the reasons why the McLaren F1 went from being a 1.3 million dollar supercar to a 3.5 million dollar supercar...and it's over 10 years old.....honeycomb contruction for body work is expensive.

[Msterbeau]

Would such a light vehicle pass today's safety standards, let alone emissions?

It would probably pass... It wouldn't have a five star rating, for sure. Emissions don't compromise fuel economy... maybe a tiny bit. Not sure on that.

Think about it though. Similar sized car... Over 800 lbs heaver. Take half of that out and you'd have huge gains in mileage in the city and some on the hwy... without completely compromising safety. People drove them not so long ago...

I don't see the big problem on safety. People's expectations for what is safe have gone WAY up. They want tank, like I said. Me. I want a minimal car with a state of the art engine. I'm a lot more fatalistic then most...

[Head Wreck]

also lighter cars brake better. but dont forget the person behind may not stop in the same distance as i found out in my 205 when someone careered into me

[Msterbeau]

only if you used honey comb structuring in the body work would it pass safety standards...but it also increases the manufacturing price of the car quite a bit....thats one of the reasons why the McLaren F1 went from being a 1.3 million dollar supercar to a 3.5 million dollar supercar...and it's over 10 years old.....honeycomb contruction for body work is expensive.

Naw. You guys are way overthinking this. If Americans didn't buy all the three ton behemoths out there, we wouldn't need the smaller cars to be built like tanks. They haven't changed safety regs that much in the past 20 years. What's changed is people's expectations. Everyone wants a five-star safety rating. Most older cars pass fine... but barely passing and passing with flying colors are two different things.

That said.. With all the pressure on raising fuel economy combines with rapidly rising prices on steel and other raw materials... look for manufactures to do a lot of research on lower-cost, lightweight materials.

The McClaren has appreciated strictly because it's an amazing car and there are only about 75 of them out there. I'm sure fixing one is expensive but that has very little to do with appreciation. In fact... a repaired car is likely to be worth less then a pristine one.

[Msterbeau]

also lighter cars brake better. but dont forget the person behind may not stop in the same distance as i found out in my 205 when someone careered into me

Take a 2000 lb car and a 3000 lb car. Use the same drivetrain for both. The lighter one will probably be somewhat less safe, assuming the same pool of engineering knowledge to refine it's structure and sub-systems. On the other hand, it will be far faster, handle better, brake better, get far better fuel economy and probably be more reliable since less weight = less stress on parts. Which would you rather have? remember that all the advantages above allow you to AVOID an accident more easily. Assuming you have a brain and good car control skills. Which is asking a lot in this country.

[ttogreh]

How much on a pound per pound ratio does carbon fiber rate against steel in cost, and how much steel do you need versus how much carbon fiber would you need?

Steel is a 150 year old product, just like petroleum.

[Rayne]

Naw. You guys are way overthinking this. If Americans didn't buy all the three ton behemoths out there, we wouldn't need the smaller cars to be built like tanks. They haven't changed safety regs that much in the past 20 years. What's changed is people's expectations. Everyone wants a five-star safety rating. Most older cars pass fine... but barely passing and passing with flying colors are two different things.

That said.. With all the pressure on raising fuel economy combines with rapidly rising prices on steel and other raw materials... look for manufactures to do a lot of research on lower-cost, lightweight materials.

The McClaren has appreciated strictly because it's an amazing car and there are only about 75 of them out there. I'm sure fixing one is expensive but that has very little to do with appreciation. In fact... a repaired car is likely to be worth less then a pristine one.

Yeah ... I had a 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix in high school. Someone hit me in an early 90's Escort. Killed their front end, barely even scratched mine ... I can't even count how many things I ran into with that thing learning how to drive (other cars, trees, curbs, fences ... ) that boat and barely even scratched it up.

I slid barely skidding, maybe doing 3 - 5 mph into the back of an Explorer and completely crushed my 1998 Chevy Malibu's front end.

Cars are built for looks these days, for sure.

And yep ... My Mazda is worth a few thousand less because it was repaired after majour structural damage. I argued with my insurance company forever about that one ... but apparently, Michigan is one of the only states that doesn't have a diminished value thingy. If I ever trade it in I'll never get what it's worth because of it's damage history.

http://www.ican2000.com/dvfaqs.html

[Oh_My_Goth]

I will tell you this, the war really has nothing to do with oil. I've been to Iraq twice, and it doesn't matter what goes on, gas prices keep rising.

If we go to war with Iran, it won't matter either. The whole 2 years I spent in Iraq, never once was any of it about oil. It wasn't even talked about.

I can not believe it had nothing to do with oil.....

I do not believe the troops even get to know the real reason they are fighting.....

I think everything is a conspiracy though.....

Edited June 4, 2008 by Oh_My_Goth

[Msterbeau]

How much on a pound per pound ratio does carbon fiber rate against steel in cost, and how much steel do you need versus how much carbon fiber would you need?

Steel is a 150 year old product, just like petroleum.

Carbon fiber is still 5x- 10x the price of steel. Or thereabouts. A quick search doesn't yield anything particularly accurate sounding. How much you need is probably different for each. You don't make the same kinds of structures because each material does its job in a different way. One of the interesting things about composites is the ability to layer it in different directions in order to tailor each area for a given load. Also, You can mix different fibers - again to achieve optimum weight vs strength vs cost ratios.

[Msterbeau]

I can not believe it had nothing to do with oil.....

I do not believe the troops even get to know the real reason they are fighting.....

I think everything is a conspiracy though.....

It doesn't matter what's going on in Iraq. Check the White House for evidence.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Its definitely got a lot to do with oil that's clear (when i say "oil" i mean taken as a whole with all the other teconoligical and political issues surrounding it.) What the joe-blow on the street talks about isn't always relevant to the big picture of global politics and finance. We tend to have too much of a self-centered or close-kin centered view of the universe. Its helpful for survival short term, but gets us confused often as well when talking about larger issues.

There are a ton of other factors involved, rather than just "oil". But the underlying reason we even bother getting involved over there is the money, and that is , in large part due to oil. There's plenty of other horrible things going on that we could get involved in, but since its "just poor people" we tend only to get involved in it in a very mild way. When there is oil or other resources involved, we get on the ball very fast.

There are plenty of insiders that have written volumes on the underlying economic reasons why we are involved in oil-rich areas when there are social/political problems there, and why we ignore for as long as possible the oil/gas producing areas. We also jump at a chance to get involved in the affairs of the oil-rich nations, given any possible political excuse. Not so in the non-producing countries.

Thats not to imply that it means there are always evil forces at work necessarily. Enlightened, longer term self-interest is a virtue.

[ttogreh]

Ok, I risk a flame-storm, but...

Every house in America has electricity. A kilowatt of electricity averages ten cents in this country. A kilowatt of electricity will propel a car five miles or so. We have the battery technology today to go fifty miles on one charge. The average commute is less than forty miles.

The Chevy Volt is green lighted.

I predict that half of the new car fleet in ten years will have some electric complement to the internal combustion engine.

We have the technology to convert every drop of flue gas from coal power plants into biodiesel from algae. We get half of our electricity from coal. We have 200 years worth of coal.

United Solar Ovonics is hiring 400 people in Greenville. The Chevy Volt is Green lighted. Coal companies can sell what was once waste as fuel.

There's a gas crisis?