Obama vs McCain

[Goth Brooks]

Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg8lCLumByw

McCain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9izhjnaLa3M

Now, considering the editing of both videos, it's entirely possible that they were edited to be taken out of context just to prove the editors' points. You also have to sit and wonder if Obama truly feels that way or if he's just trying to sell himself to the non Christian demographic.

As for McCain, /facepalm, I really wish christians would stop stating this is a christian nation. It's not in any way shape or form. Let me point out to those who don't know of it, the Treaty of Tripoli.

Unlike governments of the past, the American Fathers set up a government divorced from religion. The establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves about its origin; they knew this as an unspoken given. However, as the U.S. delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of America. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the United States to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president). Joel Barlow, the American diplomat served as counsel to Algiers and held responsibility for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. He became good friends with Paine, Jefferson, and read Enlightenment literature. Later he abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate of secular government. Barlow, along with his associate, Captain Richard O'Brien, et al, translated and modified the Arabic version of the treaty into English. From this came the added Amendment 11. Barlow forwarded the treaty to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the secretary of state, endorsed it and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate. The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.

So here we have a clear admission by the United States that our government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law as all treaties do according to the Constitution (see Article VI, Sect. 2).

Although the Christian exclusionary wording in the Treaty of Tripoli only lasted for eight years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the U.S. government.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I think what people mean when they say this is a Christian nation, is that its European settlers were Christians themselves, passionate ones at that and that the history of this nation is deeply entrenched in Christianity.

Though there was, and is now, certainly no mandate that to be American one must be Christian, one also can't deny the very powerful role Christianity has had in forming this country, its laws and its social mores.

PS - I didn't watch the videos, I was just responding to your statement. I wish people would stop saying that, too. It's confusing. But again, I don't think they mean it the way that it is often taken.

[SaGa]

ahh people are people. and racism and just budding into other peoples cultures, or slamming them or bitching to the goverment blah blah blah, still will prevail, its human nature. i dont give a ratts ass about the goverments involvement with a religion, as long as they dont shove it down my throught with force. sure slight advertisement whould happen. as long as the majority is christian, its good for politices to follow the popular religion even if the goverment is not bound bye it at all