Hippie Vs. Anti-hippie

[Rev.Reverence]

I would crack open the arms cabinet and arm my small army (My 5 sons).

We would then load up drinking water into the family car and head AWAY from population centers using back roads and open fields.

We would find a large hill in an open field with a house on it. They exist. We would then build a palisade to keep out the random stray zombie. Palisades are easy to build and strong enough to keep out a wave of zombies long enough to drive the escape vehicle out another gate. The water table is actually closer to the surface on hills too.. so a well would be easyer to dig.

"Goth" is an off shoot of the Punk sub-culture... the anti-hippys of the late 70's and early 80s.

hip·pie also hip·py Audio Help (hĭp'ē) Pronunciation Key

n. pl. hip·pies

A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles.

No such thing as an "anti-hippy"...with a mohawk or spikes...

[phee]

Other definitions

(italbrac, originally in the 1960s; still widely used in reference to that era) One who chooses not to conform to prevailing social norms: especially one who ascribes to values or actions such as acceptance or self-practice of recreational drug use, liberal or radical sexual mores, advocacy of communal living, strong pacifist, pacifism or anti-war sentiment, etc.

(italbrac, in the 1950s) A teenager who imitated the Beatniks

a. Someone with long hair: specifically, of a hair length that is considered unconventionally long in relation to one"s gender, age, ethnicity, or land of origin b. Someone who dresses in a hippie style

By these definitions.... Goth/Punk/Rivit Head could easily and often be construed as anti-hippie

[Rev.Reverence]

..since we have no "standard" dictionary reference...

..I propose a project to put as many definitions as possible on this thread...

THEN..have a freindly 'argu/bate'.

{& thanx PHEE for starting this thread for me}

{We'll hand out tomatoes later}

[Rev.Reverence]

The Hippie subculture was originally a youth movement that began in the United States during the early 1960s and spread around the world, The word hippie derives from hipster, and was initially used to describe beatniks who had moved into San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district. These people inherited the countercultural values of the Beat generation, created their own communities, listened to psychedelic rock, embraced the sexual revolution, and used drugs such as cannabis and LSD to explore alternative states of consciousness.

[phee]

synonymn: flower child

[phee]

Johnny Rotton.... A major figure in the punk subculture quote:

never trust a hippy

[Goth Brooks]

Hippy guys just wanted an excuse for easy pussy.

If they actually started believing in all that shit, it was due to the drugs.

[phee]

Urban Dictionary:

A Hippie is a person who was raised under the ideological system that came out of the tumultuous 1960's in North America and western Europe. They are either of the flower-child/baby boomer generation or that generations' subsequent offspring. They possess a core belief set revolving around the values of peace and love as being essential in an increasingly globalized society, and they are oftentimes associated with non-violent anti-governmental groups. There is a stigma of drug abuse attached to the hippies that is prevalent to this day, specifically the use and abuse of marijuana and hallucinagens. Many rock movements,poets, artists, and writers from the 1960's to today have associated with this movement, most prominently The Grateful Dead, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, and Phish. There are others too numerous to name. The movement, then and now, is considered a sub-culture by sociologists that associates itself with the left in all its political opinions. The conservative right often berates and abuses the opinions of people who associate themselves with the hippie movement and/or lifestyle, as the consider it dangerous and degenerative to a society to favor liberalism to such an extent.

Only one definition so far seems to remotely describe me or other "goths/punks" I know....

[phee]

I think this picture speaks volumes:

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Goth from Wiki...

Defining an explicit ideology for the gothic subculture is difficult for several reasons. First is the overwhelming importance of mood and aesthetic for those involved. This is, in part, inspired by romanticism and neoromanticism. The allure for goths of dark, mysterious, and morbid imagery and mood lies in the same tradition of Romanticism's gothic novel. During the late 18th and 19th century, feelings of horror, and supernatural dread were widespread motifs in popular literature; The process continues in the modern horror film. Balancing this emphasis on mood and aesthetics, another central element of the gothic is a deliberate sense of camp theatricality and self-dramatization; present both in gothic literature as well as in the gothic subculture itself.

Goths, in terms of their membership in the subculture, are usually not supportive of violence, but rather tolerance. Many in the media have incorrectly associated the Goth subculture with violence, hatred of minorities, white supremacy, and other acts of hate. However, violence and hate do not form elements of goth ideology; rather, the ideology is formed in part by recognition, identification, and grief over societal and personal evils that the mainstream culture wishes to ignore or forget. These are the prevalent themes in goth music.[6]

The second impediment to explicitly defining a gothic ideology is goth's generally apolitical nature. While individual defiance of social norms was a very risky business in the nineteenth century, today it is far less socially radical. Thus, the significance of goth's subcultural rebellion is limited, and it draws on imagery at the heart of Western culture. Unlike the hippie or punk movements, the goth subculture has no pronounced political messages or cries for social activism. The subculture is marked by its emphasis on individualism, tolerance for diversity, a strong emphasis on creativity, tendency toward intellectualism, a dislike of social conservatism, and a mild tendency towards cynicism, but even these ideas are not universal to all goths. Goth ideology is based far more on aesthetics than ethics or politics.

Goths may, indeed, have political leanings ranging from left-liberal to anarchist, but they do not express them specifically as part of a cultural identity. Instead, political affiliation, like religion, is seen as a matter of personal conscience. Unlike punk, there are few clashes between political affiliation and being "goth".

For the individual goth, involvement with the subculture can be extremely valuable and personally fulfilling, especially in creative terms. However, it also can be risky, especially for the young, partly because of the negative attention it can attract due to public misconceptions of goth subculture. The value that young people find in the movement is evidenced by its continuing existence after other subcultures of the eighties (such as the New Romantics) have long since died out.

Not hippies.

[Rev.Reverence]

I think this picture speaks volumes:

PHEE makes majik picture of Rev. & O_M_G 30 years from now...

[phee]

Goth from Wiki...

Not hippies.

[phee]

PHEE makes majik picture of Rev. & O_M_G 30 years from now...

Oh Dear

[Rev.Reverence]

O.K.

I used a bad reference material...but out of personal experience...

Some Goths are near indistinguishable from Hippies...

Sex

Drugs

'Rock-ish music'

Natural oils instead of perfumes...Patchouly Rose & Sandlewood are popular in both camps

Non-conformist stance in a socio political arena

Long hair/Dreadlocks

Off the top of my head...

[Rev.Reverence]

Oh Dear

I just counted to 13 on tye-dye items...

MY dreadlocks were #13

[phee]

O.K.

I used a bad reference material...but out of personal experience...

Some Goths are near indistinguishable from Hippies...

Sex

Drugs

'Rock-ish music'

Natural oils instead of perfumes...Patchouly Rose & Sandlewood are popular in both camps

Non-conformist stance in a socio political arena

Long hair/Dreadlocks

Off the top of my head...

Sex/Drugs also can be associated with a lot of other subcultures, including hip-hop, metal, jazz, devil worshipers, etc... with these qualifiers, almost any subculture that is not "conservative" is hippie in nature... Even Pop culture really stesses the SEX part.

Rockish Music... not sure what this includes

Natural Oils and Perfumes, this also is a cultural thing for a lot of folks having no connection to subculture, people from India for example I consider hippies, nor do I Native Americans, even if they are into non conformitty, long hair, and what not...

By these qualifiers a lot of the Mongols are also Hippies

[Rev.Reverence]

Sex/Drugs also can be associated with a lot of other subcultures, including hip-hop, metal, jazz, devil worshipers, etc... with these qualifiers, almost any subculture that is not "conservative" is hippie in nature... Even Pop culture really stesses the SEX part.

Rockish Music... not sure what this includes

Natural Oils and Perfumes, this also is a cultural thing for a lot of folks having no connection to subculture, people from India for example I consider hippies, nor do I Native Americans, even if they are into non conformitty, long hair, and what not...

By these qualifiers a lot of the Mongols are also Hippies

My point exactly...

..I am thinking that...Hippy...is...a bit more of the populace than the populace would like to admit...

...we are very likely ALL a little bit "HIPPY"

*DUCK&COVER*

[phee]

My point exactly...

..I am thinking that...Hippy...is...a bit more of the populace than the populace would like to admit...

...we are very likely ALL a little bit "HIPPY"

*DUCK&COVER*

As we are a little bit of every label.... I listen to meatbeat manifiesto, which makes me a little bit "Hip-Hop"

I LOVE being in nature and I feel very happy in the forests, which I guess makes me a little "Druid"

If the term Hippie is going to be used so broadly, why have a distinction at all? I mean Adolf Hitler was very counter culture (of the world) and he was an artist (a painter) and he was a vegitarian, as well as believed in gun control. He also had funny hair.... does that mean Hiter was a Hippie? By this definition he most definitly was... He was about as much a Hippie as most "goths" are... IMO

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Nice. Very fine point on that there idea of yours phee. Cuts to the quick with ease.

[sass_in_the_pants]

If the term Hippie is going to be used so broadly, why have a distinction at all? I mean Adolf Hitler was very counter culture (of the world) and he was an artist (a painter) and he was a vegitarian, as well as believed in gun control. He also had funny hair.... does that mean Hiter was a Hippie? By this definition he most definitly was... He was about as much a Hippie as most "goths" are... IMO

Not just any painter, but a crappy painter.

Which I think DOES put him more in the hippie camp.

I'm just sayin...

[phee]

Not just any painter, but a crappy painter.

Which I think DOES put him more in the hippie camp.

I'm just sayin...

LOL

[Homicidalheathen]

Most goths are pussies unlike punks...punks would rather kick your ass than kiss it...hippies will kiss just about anything that moves.

So goths and hippies have the wimp thing in common anyway...

Goth sit in a corner whinning all night about how their clothes are not BLACK enough...punks are on the dance floor shredding theirs in a mosh pit.

(I was a punk when I was still young enough to handle the slam...I turned goth to survive)

[sass_in_the_pants]

If a hippe and an anti-hippie collide, I wonder if they would just poof eachother out of existence...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Mosh pits are a Grunge thing... not punk. Punks slam dance on what ever part of the dance floor they feel like.

and I know some goths that would rather punch most people in the face than listen to them...

The Big Brush does not work on Goths.

[phee]

Mosh pits are a Grunge thing... not punk. Punks slam dance on what ever part of the dance floor they feel like.

and I know some goths that would rather punch most people in the face than listen to them...

The Big Brush does not work on Goths.

But it does help with their eye shadow