U.S. made automobiles

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Rayne.. How do you get 35MPG average out of a car thats at best is rated for an average of 31MPG... and to get 31MPG average you need to never have it rain or drop below 45 degrees F. It also his to be equiped with thier smallest motor and a manual transmission.

I'm looking at the EPS's MPG site... at all the Mazda 3's from 2007 and 2006... and 31MPG average is the best rating the car ever got... under the old system where it is only tested in ideal conditions.

and the new system... the best is 27MPG. The new system uses real world conditions for testing...

[Onyx]

What do you need it to do besides get you places? Do you want a minivan? Small wagon? hatchback? Etc.. What attributes are most important?

I'd like something with a nice smooth ride that looks a bit more elegant than my tiny Kia. I still think the older US made cars from the 60s and 70s had a smoother ride than anything I've ridden in since. Too bad most of them were gas guzzlers.

[Head Wreck]

i gues your talking about a combined figure.

i dont know how they market cars there but manufacturers specs over here have three values (urban, combined, and rural), and even they are idealised.

generally i get just above the combined, because i live further away from my employer than most, and drive at an easy pace.

plastic panels on a car, Europeans have been doing this for decades, and there's no disadvantage i can see, the weight saving is nice. The French seem particularly fond of this and were one of the first to really roll out the plastic panelled production car for the masses. The cars I'm looking at now all have plastic wings. I was shocked to find out, I really could not tell aside from when my dad told me when studying a Renault Megane that had not so obvious crash repair.

one disadvantage of plastic panels is in a bump, they spring back into shape, on minor bumps this is great (no need to pull dents out for those parking mishaps, but on bigger bumps they can camouflage some of the damage beneath. as i found out when some idiot must have reversed into the rear of my car in the car park, i only found out when i couldn't shut my boot lid after opening it

[freydis]

Interesting stuff.

How about Saturn? I like the look of some of those.

After knowing 2 people who owned them and were in accidents where the airbags never went off (and being seriously rear-ended by a third saturn owner and witnessing the same) i'd think twice about a saturn.

[Msterbeau]

After knowing 2 people who owned them and were in accidents where the airbags never went off (and being seriously rear-ended by a third saturn owner and witnessing the same) i'd think twice about a saturn.

Were they older models or withing the past couple years. Very different cars now. And airbags don't always go off. Generally only in frontal impacts. Side impact bags are obviously designed to go off in that case.

[Msterbeau]

I'd like something with a nice smooth ride that looks a bit more elegant than my tiny Kia. I still think the older US made cars from the 60s and 70s had a smoother ride than anything I've ridden in since. Too bad most of them were gas guzzlers.

Haha.. Smooth ride like those old dinosaurs was partially size (Long wheelbase = better ride) and partially really soft springs/shocks.

If you REALLY want American, take a look at the new Chevy Malibu. Pretty nice car for the most part. It's too new to tell about reliability. Stylish... should get semi-decent fuel economy, depending on the engine you choose. I'd also check out the Saturn Aura. The Saturn's a bit more expensive but pretty damn nice inside and out. Again... Too new to really know about reliability.

I would look at Hyundai too. Damn good value and there quality these days is quite good.

The Mazda 6 is getting replaced soon. When it does, it might be a great time to pick up the current models that they have leftover on the lot. Nice car. I like Mazda's 5 too. Stylish little van/wagon shape.. room for people and stuff but still decent mileage.

[SaGa]

seems aroespace and military is the big manufacturing now in michigan. the car companies are downsizing so much these days.

but most customers want a reliable car that has good gas mileage.

perhaps a merger will happen soon to the struggling companies. or toyota might invest in michigan with how many unhappy workers that has the skills they need take, all of gm and fords employees that are in fear everyday of job doom

[Msterbeau]

seems aroespace and military is the big manufacturing now in michigan. the car companies are downsizing so much these days.

but most customers want a reliable car that has good gas mileage.

perhaps a merger will happen soon to the struggling companies. or toyota might invest in michigan with how many unhappy workers that has the skills they need take, all of gm and fords employees that are in fear everyday of job doom

Toyota has made very significant investments in Michigan. They have a number of R&D facilities in and around Ann Arbor. So does Hyundai.

[Rayne]

Rayne.. How do you get 35MPG average out of a car thats at best is rated for an average of 31MPG... and to get 31MPG average you need to never have it rain or drop below 45 degrees F. It also his to be equiped with thier smallest motor and a manual transmission.

I'm looking at the EPS's MPG site... at all the Mazda 3's from 2007 and 2006... and 31MPG average is the best rating the car ever got... under the old system where it is only tested in ideal conditions.

and the new system... the best is 27MPG. The new system uses real world conditions for testing...

I don't know where your getting your info Gaf but this is straight from Mazda on a 2007 model of my car:

2007 Mazda 3 - EPA fuel economy estimate: 25 to 28 mpg/city, 31 to 35 mpg/highway, depending on engine.

I do have the 2.0L version of the engine ... I bought it in January of 2007, brand new. Drove it off the lot with 3 miles on it. It currently is 1 1/2 years old and pushing 33,000 miles. I keep the engine tuned, dealership checks in line, oil changes on time, alignment checks every year (usually resulting in an alignment done), tire rotations ... and still manage to need new tires every year.

My mileage in 2007:

25,000 miles a year

2,083 miles a month

520 miles a week

75 miles a day

That's A LOT of tanks of gas.

90% of my driving is freeway but I drive A LOT.

I think my mileage would be much different if I didn't drive so much.

And as for the Airbag thing -- it happens a lot actually. I had a 1998 Malibu that I ran under an Explorer on Michigan Ave. in 2006. I ran straight into the back of him, crushing my front end. The airbags didn't go off until the shop guy had torn half the crushed metal off and was inside the car 3 days later.

[Fin]

The Mazda 6 is getting replaced soon. When it does, it might be a great time to pick up the current models that they have leftover on the lot. Nice car. I like Mazda's 5 too. Stylish little van/wagon shape.. room for people and stuff but still decent mileage.

The 09 Mazda-6 is a looker, I'll give it that:

[Rayne]

The 09 Mazda-6 is a looker, I'll give it that:

I agree. AND they are offering it with a 4 cylinder engine! I haven't seen specs on it yet, but I imagine it's pretty well worth it.

Phee has a 2007 ... his lease is up in April.

[n0Mad]

I would look at Hyundai too. Damn good value and there quality these days is quite good.

They make one of the best minivans on the market. If I needed a minivan, that would probably be the one I'd get.

[the eternal]

I'd like something with a nice smooth ride that looks a bit more elegant than my tiny Kia. I still think the older US made cars from the 60s and 70s had a smoother ride than anything I've ridden in since. Too bad most of them were gas guzzlers.

OK, Onyx, you're going to hate me.

I know you want to steer from your dependable Kia to a big 3 car

Two of my friends are now driving new Kias.

You know Hille's car.

Now meet my friend Chris's car (not on the board)

The 08 Optima is a full size car,

and it STILL gets over 30 MPG,

and my buddy told me that it's on sale

brand new for around $15 grand (the price of a base Civic half it's size)

And since I have to sit in them both,

(I've owned Dodge's myself for over a decade)

I can tell you, they're a lot more comfy than they used to be.

PM me and I'll get you in touch with him.

He's a good guy.

------------------------------------------------------------

PS

So, you all don't think I'm an import whore---

Bean and I are both proud Chrysler owners, so back off with all yer hatin'

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't know where your getting your info Gaf but this is straight from Mazda on a 2007 model of my car:

2007 Mazda 3 - EPA fuel economy estimate: 25 to 28 mpg/city, 31 to 35 mpg/highway, depending on engine.

I do have the 2.0L version of the engine ... I bought it in January of 2007, brand new. Drove it off the lot with 3 miles on it. It currently is 1 1/2 years old and pushing 33,000 miles. I keep the engine tuned, dealership checks in line, oil changes on time, alignment checks every year (usually resulting in an alignment done), tire rotations ... and still manage to need new tires every year.

My mileage in 2007:

25,000 miles a year

2,083 miles a month

520 miles a week

75 miles a day

That's A LOT of tanks of gas.

90% of my driving is freeway but I drive A LOT.

I think my mileage would be much different if I didn't drive so much.

And as for the Airbag thing -- it happens a lot actually. I had a 1998 Malibu that I ran under an Explorer on Michigan Ave. in 2006. I ran straight into the back of him, crushing my front end. The airbags didn't go off until the shop guy had torn half the crushed metal off and was inside the car 3 days later.

The EPA testing site.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorC...=1&id=23181

2.0L DC/FW Auto Trans

26City/34Hwy/29Combined - Old system

23City/31Hwy/26 Combined - New System

24Low/25High/29.5 Average - Reported by actualy drivers (only 10)

2.0L Maunual Trans

28City/35Hwy/31Combined - Old system

24City/32Hwy/27 Combined - New System

29Low/40High/32.8 Average - Reported by actualy drivers (only 3)

[Rayne]

The EPA testing site.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorC...=1&id=23181

2.0L DC/FW Auto Trans

26City/34Hwy/29Combined - Old system

This one is mine. They are rating it at 34 highway ... only one under what I get, average.

Again, if I drove less, or under different conditions (more city that freeway, missed an oil change, etc ...) I think I would have a lower MPG.

[n0Mad]

Crap. Using Gaf's link I discovered my truck gets worse mileage than I thought.

1999 GMC Sonoma 2WD

Automatic 4-spd

4 Cylinders

2.2 Liters

Regular Gasoline

Old: 19 city/26 hwy/22 combined

New: 17 city/24 hwy/19 combined

[Msterbeau]

Mileage all depends on how and where you drive. It's not impossible nor even improbable to get better mileage then the EPA data.

[Fin]

I wish they'd offer the Mazda-2 in the U.S.

(now available only in Europe & Asia):

[Msterbeau]

I wish they'd offer the Mazda-2 in the U.S.

(now available only in Europe & Asia):

The Fiesta, or whatever Ford will call it IS coming here next year. Same car underneath.

[Rayne]

Mileage all depends on how and where you drive. It's not impossible nor even improbable to get better mileage then the EPA data.

LOL, exactly. Phee drives much different than I do. He uses more gas in my car when he drives it than I do.

I took my car to Georgia. I drove at night, barely any traffic, though lots of construction. I filled up in Knoxville, Tennessee. That's 499.51 miles (give or take ... I didn't leave from home, but just mapped it out from home).

[the eternal]

If you go to a car lot, look at the window stickers.

The information is identical to what you find at www.fueleconomy.gov,

because it's written by the same people (the US Dept of Energy)

but it is more complete at a dealer lot--and explains why Rayne gets better fuel economy than she's supposed to.

Here's what Rayne's talking about.

I'll use the Optima I mentioned as an example:

It's expected to get 31 MPG on the HWY, as you'll find on the website, BUT

IF you're a stable driver, use your cruise control, use the A/C only when necessary,

and keep it close to 55 MPH,

THEN

instead of 31 MPG which is in huge print on the window sticker-

in tiny print right below the big numbers it says

you'll get close to 37 MPG.

It really all depends how you drive.

If everyone drove stably,

used cruise,

turned on the A/C less,

and kept at 55MPH for their road trips,

they would save a lot of money in gas.

(Fuck that, I'm an hour and half from my baby--my heart throws my head to the curb every time )

[Fin]

The Fiesta, or whatever Ford will call it IS coming here next year. Same car underneath.

Yeah but we all know it will look dowdy.

Here's my question Beau (or whomever):

What is the deal with the U.S. vehicles looking way less sleek/sporty?

Whenever they bring the new cars here, they dumb-down the lines. I never got that.

[Msterbeau]

Yeah but we all know it will look dowdy.

Here's my question Beau (or whomever):

What is the deal with the U.S. vehicles looking way less sleek/sporty?

Whenever they bring the new cars here, they dumb-down the lines. I never got that.

The Fiesta will actually look pretty damn cool. There are not supposed to be significant changes between ours and the European model. I've been in design for 20 years.. and I still can't figure out why they don't let us have the same products as there . The regulations are getting much closer together so that issue is going away... *shrugs*

[Msterbeau]

[Rayne]

Yeah but we all know it will look dowdy.

Here's my question Beau (or whomever):

What is the deal with the U.S. vehicles looking way less sleek/sporty?

Whenever they bring the new cars here, they dumb-down the lines. I never got that.

I think the US is doing better in that regard.

Look at the new Malibu. That thing is sharp. Are they actually set to build the Camaro yet? That concept was awesome.

Ford's getting there, the Mustang, I love ... even though it's a redesign of the older version. Even the Focus is starting to look nice.

Chrysler's been there with their little cars. Like the Avenger, Charger and Caliber, those things are REALLY nice looking.

I think US cars are actually starting to look better than some of the imports.