Abortion

[phee]

Beware the can of worms that you are opening with "taking it from a judicial standpoint with comparisions to common crimes"... how many things are legal that resemble common crimes?

based on the facts...what makes abortion different then murder??

I bring this up... again... one could say that cigarretes are murder, war is murder, capitol punishment is murder.... all from this stand point...

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I bring this up... again... one could say that cigarretes are murder, war is murder, capitol punishment is murder.... all from this stand point...

well..technically...cigarettes are more definable under "suicide" then murder

and yes...capitol punishment and war are both acts of murder, "justified" by our goverment.

[phee]

well..technically...cigarettes are more definable under "suicide" then murder

and yes...capitol punishment and war are both acts of murder, "justified" by our goverment.

So is driving....

[Guest Megalicious]

I KNOW that if you hit a pregnant woman with a car, and the fetus dies, that you get charged with nothing LESS then vehicular homicide...not manslaughter....homicide.

I KNOW that there have already been two cases where the former mothers already stated, in court, that they were one the way to abort the baby.

I KNOW that the drivers were sentenced anyway.

Sounds like your beef is with our flawed judicial system and its many loopholes.

I KNOW that I have been through three dead children because their mothers self-aborted them, then told me AFTER....and that clinical abortions, without consent of BOTH parties (the biological mother AND father), happen on a regular basis

I must admit, my first instinct was to say something horrid, but in totally sincerity I am so sorry that this happened to you, I am with gaf, the whole of fathers rights is almost always overlooked. and I am so sorry for you loss....

[freydis]

...

...then...maybe...she should have thought about that before spreading her legs so carelessly?

Any woman who gets an abortion is selfish, imo. Rape is the only exception to this rule.

If you wanna play then sometimes you end up paying. Everyone knows this before having sex. It's like drinkin and driving...before you get behind the wheel you KNOW that you may kill someone...if you don't want to spend years in jail for killing someone...call a taxi. It's that simple.

If you don't want to spend the next 18 years of your life taking care of a kid...keep your vagina closed for business. It's simple and it works.

That's why I don't understand wtf feminists support it...they should be against abortion. It shows women's true colors of being selfish, immature, weak, and all about themselves imo.

You DO realise that people can take every precaution possible (aside from out-and-out abstinance, which is unrealistic IMO), and *still* end up pregnant? Condoms break, pills stop working, and even tubes can come untied.

I think it's selfish to think you have the right to make that decision for someone else.

I think it's irrelavent what *I* think of abortion. That's why I'm pro-choice. I don't believe I have the right to decide for someone else.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

So is driving....

Cept Driving and Cigarettes are both Self Choices....Driving is only considered murder and/or suicide if you are going to intentionally harm yourself and/ or others with it.

Cigarettes can be considered suicide because you are making a conscious descision to end your life pre-maturely...and technically, under the laws judicially surrounding suicide, CAN be considered a crime (good job getting the other thread proven...somewhat)

however:

"The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal or not. Homicide is considered noncriminal in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony. Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are both examples of criminal homicide."

I believe that, in the case of abortion, the mother is "purposely, knowingly, recklessly, or negligently causing the death of another"

and the above isn't the definition of Murder, but rather the definition of Homicide, which Murder falls under.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Sounds like your beef is with our flawed judicial system and its many loopholes.

I must admit, my first instinct was to say something horrid, but in totally sincerity I am so sorry that this happened to you, I am with gaf, the whole of fathers rights is almost always overlooked. and I am so sorry for you loss....

Meg...honestly...I've already had one of the most horrid things said to me, concerning that, years ago "I would have killed it too if you were gonna be the father"

I'm not sure what can be said that would top that...and thank you.

[TitsMcGee]

I had a miscarriage last year, and when it happened I still hadn't figured out what I was going to do. Personally the only way I could have an abortion is if I was raped, the pregnancy would kill me and the baby or if the baby had a severe birth defect where it would not survive more than a few hours.

With that being said I think there should be regulations on abortion. It should not be used as a method of birth control that is why they make condoms. If the baby is completely healthy the state or someone should offer incentives for women to carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. The only reason I think there sould be an abortion is for the reasons I stated above.

[Guest Megalicious]

however:

"The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal or not. Homicide is considered noncriminal in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony. Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are both examples of criminal homicide."

I believe that, in the case of abortion, the mother is "purposely, knowingly, recklessly, or negligently causing the death of another"

and the above isn't the definition of Murder, but rather the definition of Homicide, which Murder falls under.

It all comes down to what your perception of malice aforethought is.

Do I believe ALL abortions are a result of malice aforethought? No, I don't

I believe that for MOST of the abortions these women are emotional scared for life. It's not an easy choice, and its not black and white or wrong or right, there are SO MANY other elements to making a choice like that. If anything I am empathic.

I do believe a SMALL amount of them are, for the mother has reckless indifference for human life, in many cases even her own. In this case, I think the child would be better off aborted then raise by someone who has such little respect for human life in general.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

It all comes down to what your perception of malice aforethought is.

Do I believe ALL abortions are a result of malice aforethought? No, I don't

I believe that for MOST of the abortions these women are emotional scared for life. It's not an easy choice, and its not black and white or wrong or right, there are SO MANY other elements to making a choice like that. If anything I am empathic.

I do believe a SMALL amount of them are, for the mother has reckless indifference for human life, in many cases even her own. In this case, I think the child would be better off aborted then raise by someone who has such little respect for human life in general.

ok..well...It origionally started as an emergancy medical proceedure....would you agree that maybe it should return to that?

Take away the option of responsibility from a person, and they will care very little for being responsible for the acts leading up to it at all.

[phee]

ok..well...It origionally started as an emergancy medical proceedure....would you agree that maybe it should return to that?

Take away the option of responsibility from a person, and they will care very little for being responsible for the acts leading up to it at all.

I am starting to see your perspective here....

I always hate when I here that someone "accidently" slept with someone (especially in the context of cheating).... I don't think thats possible.

[Guest Megalicious]

ok..well...It origionally started as an emergancy medical proceedure....would you agree that maybe it should return to that?

Take away the option of responsibility from a person, and they will care very little for being responsible for the acts leading up to it at all.

No, I don't.

For the simple fact of my post earlier. Its harsh but true, some fetuses are better off not being born, it's a sad fact of life. I don't even like to admit it sometimes, because its so ugly, and makes me sad but that doesn't make it any less true.

I just don't think I have the right to tell anyone else what is right for them, because I wouldn't want someone else making that kind of decision for me.

I think about it like this.

What if it was the other way around? What if , when I became pregnant, the law was ambiguous enough that EVERY (no matter what circumstances) pregnancy must be terminated. or because aborting is the "right" thing to do, I was told I'd be forced to do what other people believed to be "right", but I didn't feel that it was the right thing for me?

I know what I would have done. The same thing I did, had my son. I would have been like whats her name in the wanting seed, hiding out in the country with family, because it would have been what was right for me.

[Guest Megalicious]

I always hate when I here that someone "accidently" slept with someone (especially in the context of cheating).... I don't think thats possible.

Ditto.

[Rev.Reverence]

You DO realise that people can take every precaution possible (aside from out-and-out abstinance, which is unrealistic IMO), and *still* end up pregnant? Condoms break, pills stop working, and even tubes can come untied.

I think it's selfish to think you have the right to make that decision for someone else.

I think it's irrelavent what *I* think of abortion. That's why I'm pro-choice. I don't believe I have the right to decide for someone else.

I like that last line there a whole lot!

*public service announcement*

If a girl is on the pill..

..uses a condom..

..the pull out technique..

..& the rhythm method..

Do you realize the fuckin' astronomical odds against an unwanted pregnancy?

[phee]

I like that last line there a whole lot!

*public service announcement*

If a girl is on the pill..

..uses a condom..

..the pull out technique..

..& the rhythm method..

Do you realize the fuckin' astronomical odds against an unwanted pregnancy?

You should talk to my wife about the "odds" of getting pregnant under these circumstances.... twice

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I am starting to see your perspective here....

I always hate when I here that someone "accidently" slept with someone (especially in the context of cheating).... I don't think thats possible.

yeah...one of these days phee...I swear...i'm gonna be able to get this damn perspective of mine more visable without the fighting...lol

look...If it is medically unsound to carry the child to term...then there is no option...and I understand that..thats a different issue..but this whole thing about "well...I like to fuck...whoops...got preggers....but I don't want a kid...hey doc, got a vaccumn"...is amazingly irresponsible....you made the bed...lay in it...you can't take care of the kid..adoption. I know the system for it isn't perfect...but at least it's a chance.

[phee]

yeah...one of these days phee...I swear...i'm gonna be able to get this damn perspective of mine more visable without the fighting...lol

look...If it is medically unsound to carry the child to term...then there is no option...and I understand that..thats a different issue..but this whole thing about "well...I like to fuck...whoops...got preggers....but I don't want a kid...hey doc, got a vaccumn"...is amazingly irresponsible....you made the bed...lay in it...you can't take care of the kid..adoption. I know the system for it isn't perfect...but at least it's a chance.

Rape and incest as well.... or in cases of drug addiction

[TitsMcGee]

I always hate when I here that someone "accidently" slept with someone (especially in the context of cheating).... I don't think thats possible.

"I'm sorry honey, I slipped and fell right onto his dick" Women like that need to be slapped, the men just need to be kicked in the junk.

[phee]

"I'm sorry honey, I slipped and fell right onto his dick" Women like that need to be slapped, the men just need to be kicked in the junk.

Another thread entirely

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Another thread entirely

lol...don't tempt me....

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Rape and incest as well.... or in cases of drug addiction

incest...ok...understandalbe...but for rape n drug addiction...nope...I wouldn't even allow that...just because your a victim doesn't give you the right to make another victim. Thats like a victim of rape becoming a rapist...it's a sick cycle.

[Rayne]

You should talk to my wife about the "odds" of getting pregnant under these circumstances.... twice

Twice? Your not counting three of my kids ... so um ... five.

[damagedangel]

incest...ok...understandalbe...but for rape n drug addiction...nope...I wouldn't even allow that...just because your a victim doesn't give you the right to make another victim. Thats like a victim of rape becoming a rapist...it's a sick cycle.

I really didn't want to get into this thread... but...

As for the rape victim, she will more than likely resent that baby and not treat it as well as it should be treated. The baby will be another victim, because personally I wouldn't want something to remind me daily of a horrific thing that happened to me....

As for the drug addicted mothers, those babies have the chance of being born addicted to whatever their mothers are addicted to and having a lifetime of problems...

[phee]

I really didn't want to get into this thread... but...

As for the rape victim, she will more than likely resent that baby and not treat it as well as it should be treated. The baby will be another victim, because personally I wouldn't want something to remind me daily of a horrific thing that happened to me....

As for the drug addicted mothers, those babies have the chance of being born addicted to whatever their mothers are addicted to and having a lifetime of problems...

Indeed

[n0Mad]

Its harsh but true, some fetuses are better off not being born, it's a sad fact of life.

So, if you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis and tuberculosis, and the father was alcoholic, would you recommend that she have an abortion?

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If you said yes, you just killed Beethoven.