McCain picks Alaska gov as running mate.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I accept facts or as near as we can get to them. I accept real scientific studies and try to read studies both for and against any given issue.

I don't accept bull shit "science" arguments based on inaccurate data. An example of this can be found in your posts above in regards to CFCs.

I don't accept conjecture and rumors until they can be shown to have some credibility. See your whole "not her baby" drama above.

I also tend to find illogical statements to be funny as hell. So let me analyze one of yours to show you the humor.

IF you are right...

She is Pro-Life

She is Anti-Birth Control

And teaches Abstinence

Her daughter gets knocked up.

Because she said fuck abstinence and had sex.

But..

She did not use Birth Control

She did not have an Abortion

And the Mother would be raising the child as her own to give her daughter a second chance at life...

Explain to me how her daughter not using birth control and then not getting an abortion is somehow against her Political views?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and Dude... Find some pics with dates.

Of if you bord... Look at the pics from the announcemnt of Friday. Look closely at the youngest daughter. At her age... a few months will change thier apperance. They grow like weeds. Then look at your last pic. Look at the daughter again. Does she look 6 months older?

[Guest greyhalo]

As do I....

Still not voting for him though

Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm doing at this point. I still liked Ron Paul the best out of the candidates.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I don't accept conjecture and rumors until they can be shown to have some credibility. See your whole "not her baby" drama above.

I also tend to find illogical statements to be funny as hell. So let me analyze one of yours to show you the humor.

IF you are right...

She is Pro-Life

She is Anti-Birth Control

And teaches Abstinence

Her daughter gets knocked up.

Because she said fuck abstinence and had sex.

But..

She did not use Birth Control

She did not have an Abortion

And the Mother would be raising the child as her own to give her daughter a second chance at life...

Explain to me how her daughter not using birth control and then not getting an abortion is somehow against her Political views?

ok...first off...I have provided much evidance to support the very strong possability that it is not her child, but rather her daughters.

Secondly, her daughter NOT using abstinence is a big deal because Palin has made such a strong stand one being an "abstinence only" politician.

Thirdly, as I have explained above, with teenage pregnancy being such a huge issue in this country...and the majority of them hidden by the teens themselves, it would have been much better to the country, socially, for the Palin family to be truthful about this. It would have shown that you don't have to hide it, and would have encouraged strong family support throughout the events. Instead, the Palin family lied about it and tried, rather poorly IMO, to convince the American public, and even many dear "friends" of the Palin family, that it was Sarah that was with child. I think the American public gets lied to enough!!

Gaf...Honestly...can you believe that a woman in her 40's can suffer 8 hours of labor, in multiple public places, and not show a single sign of it?

Can any of the women here that have given birth tell me that this is absolutely possible??

Not a sweat drop...not a gasp of air...nothing...Sarah Palin endured 8 hours of labor, through a political speech, three airports, and two planes...and showed not a single sign of labor or pregnacy?

yeah....next you want me to believe that her real name is Diana Prince and her job is not only Governor of Alaska, but she is also Wonder Woman.

Please

I would love to show you pictures with dates on them, but you know damn well that since most, if not all, of the images online of a public figure will be devoid of such dates on the images themselves, since they are used for media, thats a bullshyt request and you know it.

Gaf...I'm not pounding at this because because she is female....or a republican....but because of the serious flaws in the story...and IF those flaws held shed light on facts that Palin BLATENTLY lied about to friends, and the public, then shouldn't we have a right to know?

It's called investigative journalism....or as close as i will ever come to it....I scour multiple sources, trying to find the most official (btw...that was the first time I even heard of Daily Kos), and only use information that is repeated. I'm not running around screaming that Palin is a child molester or that McCain secretly has wings....I am only using information that has been reported from several sources...I think in that, I can at least have some degree of respect...I am better then some people out there, making wild accusations after reading ONE article.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

ok...first off...I have provided much evidance to support the very strong possability that it is not her child, but rather her daughters.

Secondly, her daughter NOT using abstinence is a big deal because Palin has made such a strong stand one being an "abstinence only" politician.

Thirdly, as I have explained above, with teenage pregnancy being such a huge issue in this country...and the majority of them hidden by the teens themselves, it would have been much better to the country, socially, for the Palin family to be truthful about this. It would have shown that you don't have to hide it, and would have encouraged strong family support throughout the events. Instead, the Palin family lied about it and tried, rather poorly IMO, to convince the American public, and even many dear "friends" of the Palin family, that it was Sarah that was with child. I think the American public gets lied to enough!!

Gaf...Honestly...can you believe that a woman in her 40's can suffer 8 hours of labor, in multiple public places, and not show a single sign of it?

Can any of the women here that have given birth tell me that this is absolutely possible??

Not a sweat drop...not a gasp of air...nothing...Sarah Palin endured 8 hours of labor, through a political speech, three airports, and two planes...and showed not a single sign of labor or pregnacy?

yeah....next you want me to believe that her real name is Diana Prince and her job is not only Governor of Alaska, but she is also Wonder Woman.

Please

I would love to show you pictures with dates on them, but you know damn well that since most, if not all, of the images online of a public figure will be devoid of such dates on the images themselves, since they are used for media, thats a bullshyt request and you know it.

Gaf...I'm not pounding at this because because she is female....or a republican....but because of the serious flaws in the story...and IF those flaws held shed light on facts that Palin BLATENTLY lied about to friends, and the public, then shouldn't we have a right to know?

It's called investigative journalism....or as close as i will ever come to it....I scour multiple sources, trying to find the most official (btw...that was the first time I even heard of Daily Kos), and only use information that is repeated. I'm not running around screaming that Palin is a child molester or that McCain secretly has wings....I am only using information that has been reported from several sources...I think in that, I can at least have some degree of respect...I am better then some people out there, making wild accusations after reading ONE article.

Being a strong advocate of Abstinence does not mean you humiliate, embarrass or other wise make a huge public spectacle of a teenagers sex life. It usu sally means parents are disappointed that their child did not wait. In cases where someone gets pregnant, the Family's deal with it how ever they so choose according to their beliefs. Some would choose abortion. Other would choose to adopt out. In many family's the mother or an older sister take the child and say it's their own. A large majority, the girl keeps the baby and deals with being a teenage mother. It's not a public event in anyway.

I don't see a huge breaking of her own values if this were true.

I don't think you understand the whole abstinence point of view.

I am the Father of 6. I have watched 6 labors.

I have watch the wives of my friends as they had all their kids... about 15.

I have 7 nieces and nephews. I saw all their mothers during early labor.

Every pregnancies is different. Every labor is different. There is no pattern. Some times they come hard. Sometimes they come fast. Sometimes it builds over days... I have walked around Walmart shopping with my wife while she was having contractions ever 15Min.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I just wanted to add this...

Daily Kos dates one of the photos as late 2007... the one with the girl in a black and white dotted dress...

It was first run in a Bio piece about Palin in the Anchorage Daily News... in 2006.

They baby wasn't born till April 2008.

How long was the little girl pregnant?

get yet? The story is bullshit.

[TitsMcGee]

DailyKos Embraces The Palin 'Fake Pregnancy' Rumor But Rejects The Edwards Story

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY! [NOW UPDATED WITH EVEN MORE DASTARDLY HYPOCRISYNESS!]

Palin's gillnet

These Are Not the Supporters Barack Obama Thought He Knew

I think that sums some of this up. And as for how long a woman can be in labor, my friend Sarah was in labor with her daughter for 58.5 hours before they finally did a C-section. She did it all on her own with no drugs and was perfectly fine through the majority of it.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I just wanted to add this...

Daily Kos dates one of the photos as late 2007... the one with the girl in a black and white dotted dress...

It was first run in a Bio piece about Palin in the Anchorage Daily News... in 2006.

They baby wasn't born till April 2008.

How long was the little girl pregnant?

get yet? The story is bullshit.

ok Gaf...how about this....I actually have a medical assisstant on payroll at Godfallen....she works at a OBGYN....if I showed her the pictures....and the stories...and she said it would be highly unlikely that Sarah Palin was pregnant....would you accept the more likely POSSABILITY of the story then??

and I told you...that was the first time I used Daily Kos...or even heard about it...I will admit that it was not the reliable source...but there are many other places using this story too...respectable places.

And Gaf....your wife showed NO signs through her entire labor of being in labor?? cuz thats whats being claimed.

[TitsMcGee]

I don't know about you but she looks pretty knocked up to me

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I don't know about you but she looks pretty knocked up to me

wow...I have to admit that that is the FIRST photo I have seen, during her term as governor, of her where she looks pregnant.

but I still have to ask myself how whole CROWDS of people...and people she worked next to EVERY DAY...never noticed....we still have to take that into account.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

ok Gaf...how about this....I actually have a medical assisstant on payroll at Godfallen....she works at a OBGYN....if I showed her the pictures....and the stories...and she said it would be highly unlikely that Sarah Palin was pregnant....would you accept the more likely POSSABILITY of the story then??

and I told you...that was the first time I used Daily Kos...or even heard about it...I will admit that it was not the reliable source...but there are many other places using this story too...respectable places.

And Gaf....your wife showed NO signs through her entire labor of being in labor?? cuz thats whats being claimed.

No.

Here is why.

[sass_in_the_pants]

On Sarah Palin's pregnancy:

Her fifth child has Downs. The odds of that happening to someone under 30 are 1 in 1,000. The odds of that happening to a woman of her age is 1 in 35.

I'm just sayin...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Almost forgot.

My wife showed no signs that anyone but me would have noticed. Have you ever been around a woman in labor? The first contractions are not all that bad.. from what I have been told and have seen.

I'm not a woman and have never had a baby... I am not going to second guesse a woman on how labor feels. If the woman claims she can deal and wants to go shopping until the contractions are powerful enough to warrant a trip to the hospital.. I'm going shopping.

Last I checked.. it was HER body, HER decision and HER labor. There isn't a man on this planet that has any ground to stand on when it comes to knowing anything at all about what it's like to be in labor.

Here's a story for you... My wife and I were out dancing at the bar... We got there around 9PM... around 9:30 she felt her first contraction. We stayed at the bar until 2am. Her contractions were 15min apart at that point. We went home and went to bed. At 7:30am we drove to the hospital because her water broke. They hooked her up to monitors and such... and she went back to sleep till about noon. My son was born a 2:47 that afternoon. When we started making calls to let people know the baby was born... our friends were shocked to find out that during her labor.. she was on the dance floor getting down to Rage Against the Machine.

Go find a real issue to dislike Palin for. Perhaps her political views.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

No.

Here is why.

both of the images that both Gaf and Tits have presented are taken at an rear end angle....you take a picture of anyone like that, and their gonna make them look wider then what they are.

SAME CLOTHES....different angle.

funny...she doesn't look pregnant NOW....I find your photoshots subject due to angle.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and I can see a large belly in that shot... look how far in front of her shoulders her hands are...

Your reaching dude... give up...

Bullshit is bullshit

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Almost forgot.

My wife showed no signs that anyone but me would have noticed. Have you ever been around a woman in labor? The first contractions are not all that bad.. from what I have been told and have seen.

I'm not a woman and have never had a baby... I am not going to second guesse a woman on how labor feels. If the woman claims she can deal and wants to go shopping until the contractions are powerful enough to warrant a trip to the hospital.. I'm going shopping.

Last I checked.. it was HER body, HER decision and HER labor. There isn't a man on this planet that has any ground to stand on when it comes to knowing anything at all about what it's like to be in labor.

Here's a story for you... My wife and I were out dancing at the bar... We got there around 9PM... around 9:30 she felt her first contraction. We stayed at the bar until 2am. Her contractions were 15min apart at that point. We went home and went to bed. At 7:30am we drove to the hospital because her water broke. They hooked her up to monitors and such... and she went back to sleep till about noon. My son was born a 2:47 that afternoon. When we started making calls to let people know the baby was born... our friends were shocked to find out that during her labor.. she was on the dance floor getting down to Rage Against the Machine.

Go find a real issue to dislike Palin for. Perhaps her political views.

you have yet to deny this as a possible real issue....but I will keep it in the back pocket for now...lets move onto other things....

ok..."Trooper Gate"....but you'll tell me that is all heresay as well....

how about this

"When on June 6, 2007, the Alaska Creamery Board recommended closing Matanuska Maid Dairy, an unprofitable state-owned business, Palin objected, citing concern for the impact on dairy farmers and the fact that the dairy had just received US$600,000 in state money. When Palin found out that the Board of Agriculture and Conservation appoints Creamery Board members, she replaced the entire membership of the Board of Agriculture and Conservation.[58] The new board reversed the decision to close the dairy, but later in 2007, with Palin's support, the unprofitable business was put up for sale. There were no offers in December 2007, when the minimum bid was set at US$3.35 million,[59][60] and the dairy was closed that month. In August 2008, the Anchorage plant was purchased for US$1.5 million, the new minimum bid;"

her stubborness and political tactics lost the state over a couple million in revenue from just ONE deal.

"On July 28, 2008, a bipartisan committee of the Alaska Legislature voted 12-0 to hire an independent investigator to investigate Palin and her staff for possible abuse of power surrounding the dismissal.[69] The investigator's report should be completed in October."

12-0....that means in a bipartisan committee, EVERYONE found her use of her political power possibably abusive.

"Palin's choice to replace Monegan, Charles M. Kopp, chief of the Kenai police department, took the position on 11 July 2008. He resigned on 25 July after it was revealed that he had received a letter of reprimand for sexual harrassment in his previous position."

Her office didn't know about the letter? How well did they bother to do a background check on this guy? Thats a problem.

"In 2002, while running for lieutenant governor, Palin called herself as "pro-life as any candidate can be." She opposes abortion for rape and incest victims"

Though I stand on the front of "only for medical emergancies....there go the two biggiest reasons behind the "it's our body, our choice" campaign...

"Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska, including opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to drilling. She does not believe that global warming is human-made. She opposed listing of the polar bear as an endangered species on the grounds that it would interfere with oil and gas extraction, and supported a controversial predator-control program involving aerial hunting of wolves to manage moose populations for hunters."

I can understand drilling in Alaska...but there is ALOT of alaska to do this in...why is she so adimit about opening the ANWR to do this?? And lets AERIAL HUNT the wolves??? I understand that wolves are something of a "gaming" crisis up there....but AERIAL HUNTING???

Also...I find her reasons for alaska drilling rather subject

"Todd Palin works for the oil company BP as an oil-field production operator. Neither her husband nor her son Track have ever registered with a political party."

so when the drilling starts....how much you wanna bet that BP gets first crack??

and Her husband and son aren't registered with a party??...odd for the family of a republican governor with a "strong" track record...

"your reaching dude...give it up"

whatever Gaf...your so blinded by her, you don't WANT to see the facts...you'll CLAIM to see ANYTHING as long as it saves your poor little Palin....face it...she's gonna train wreck....especially if that report in October comes back possitive.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I think that when I said, a couple times, that it was bullshit... that I was denying it as a possibility. Perhaps Bullshit means something else to you.

The Dairy... So, you think it would have been wise to close it down and right it all off at a loss rather than holding on to it and selling it for $1.5 million. How is it that closing it down and recouping no money at all is better than selling it for 1.5 Million?

No, everyone found her SUSPECT of abuse. Suspect does not mean guilty. Which, according to the laws of our land.. means she is innocent until proven guilty. She invited the investigation and opened her books and such with open arms... doesn't sound too guilty to me.

Perhaps you should read this about the "Letter of Reprimand"

The reason no one knew he had a recieved one is because it had been removed from his record. Also, last I checked, no matter what job your going for... there are something that are not allowed to be asked.

So, she's Anti-Abortion. So are a lot of other Americans.

AS for ANWAR... Perhaps you should read up on that as well. Did you know that it has been a Stratigic Oil Reserve for the Navy since WWII? There is a lot of Alaska, but not all of it has oil under it.

I oppose listing Polar bears as endangered too. The numbers don't support them as endangerd.

I also don't support Global warming as Man-Made... and more and more science is showing that it is not. I have read to many scietific studys that can directly link Global Warming directly to Solar cycles and the weirdness going on in the Sun. The best the "man made" side of the argument have come up with is a consensous that it "MIGHT" be man made.

And yes, Ariel hunting of Wolves. They are not killing them for sport. They are killing them because of the high number of them and the affect they are having on the moose populations. From a helicopter, you can find them, shoot them and move on to the next one far faster than trudging through the mountains or tundra and hoping one comes within eye sight. That means it costs the State less money to do it.

You should perhaps look up what a Oil-Field Production manager does and how much say they would have in a company as large as BP. BTW. that his second Job... his main job is as a Commercial Fisherman.

I'm not blinded by her. I don't know that much about her... infact, I have learned more abou ther in this conversation with you than I knew before. See, you keep throwing bullshit at her and when I wipe the bullshit away and find out more facts about her.. I like her more and more.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well, this makes things make a bit more sense... The reason the daughter looks pregnant in the recent photos... She is... about 3 months into actually... and OMG Horror of horrors!!! She is going to keep it!!!! and Get married!!! The scandal!!! What a discrace it must be to have you child decide to not have an abortion and get married.

[Guest greyhalo]

Well, this makes things make a bit more sense... The reason the daughter looks pregnant in the recent photos... She is... about 3 months into actually... and OMG Horror of horrors!!! She is going to keep it!!!! and Get married!!! The scandal!!! What a discrace it must be to have you child decide to not have an abortion and get married.

I was just going to mention this myself.

[Fin]

Well, this makes things make a bit more sense... The reason the daughter looks pregnant in the recent photos... She is... about 3 months into actually... and OMG Horror of horrors!!! She is going to keep it!!!! and Get married!!! The scandal!!! What a discrace it must be to have you child decide to not have an abortion and get married.

Your sarcasm is a little lost on me here--who exactly has been deriding this woman's daughter for keeping her pregnancy & considering getting married? Has it been a "hot topic" in the media? I must admit to paying very little attention to this "story" as it seems like circus side-show nonsense in the political arena & a private family issue in the larger sense.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

She only 17 and pregnant. I was led to beleive that the only proper and progresive thing for her to do was abort it.

What you missed was the bullshit story the Daily Kos created trying to say that Palin's youngest daughter is actually her oldest daughters. They didn't have any proof at all, as it was complete bullshit... but GFP has spent 2 pages and 2 days trying to convince me that it was absolute truth and that keeping a baby was someone how against Palin's anti-abortion stance.

and yes, as I stated in an earlyer post... not matter what the situation... it's a private family matter that is no bodys business.

[Guest greyhalo]

Your sarcasm is a little lost on me here--who exactly has been deriding this woman's daughter for keeping her pregnancy & considering getting married? Has it been a "hot topic" in the media? I must admit to paying very little attention to this "story" as it seems like circus side-show nonsense in the political arena & a private family issue in the larger sense.

The sarcasm made sense to me. Gaf's been goaded by other members on the board for days about this story/these stories. Some of the stuff that's been said about Palin and her family is quite ridiculous.

[Fin]

She only 17 and pregnant. I was led to beleive that the only proper and progresive thing for her to do was abort it.

All people--whether they be pro- or anti-choice--should regard such a unilateral approach as nonsense.

What you missed was the bullshit story the Daily Kos created trying to say that Palin's youngest daughter is actually her oldest daughters. They didn't have any proof at all, as it was complete bullshit... but GFP has spent 2 pages and 2 days trying to convince me that it was absolute truth and that keeping a baby was someone how against Palin's anti-abortion stance.

Trusting any article from the Daily Kos without a large grain of salt would be silly.

TDK is even farther left than FoxNews is to the right--quite a hard feat to pull off.

and yes, as I stated in an earlyer post... not matter what the situation... it's a private family matter that is no bodys business.

Entirely agreed, as I believe is true for all families facing such issues.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

One last thing:

"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

On charges that his campaign has stoked the story via liberal blogs:

"I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us," he said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I thought there was somebody in my campaign who was involved in something like that, they would be fired."

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

The Dairy... So, you think it would have been wise to close it down and right it all off at a loss rather than holding on to it and selling it for $1.5 million. How is it that closing it down and recouping no money at all is better than selling it for 1.5 Million?

I know that if they were able to shut it down and sell it when they wanted to, instead of Palin bitching about the $600,000 the state just put into it....then they would have made alot more money the 1.5 million.

No, everyone found her SUSPECT of abuse. Suspect does not mean guilty. Which, according to the laws of our land.. means she is innocent until proven guilty. She invited the investigation and opened her books and such with open arms... doesn't sound too guilty to me.

They voted to that investigation BEFORE she invited it....and we'll see what the reports in october say....IF she is found guilty....I'm gonna fly down to florida and laugh in your face.

The reason no one knew he had a recieved one is because it had been removed from his record. Also, last I checked, no matter what job your going for... there are something that are not allowed to be asked.

I would love for you to post where you found that, because the sexual harrassment complaint, if taken to court, would have required him to undergo classes in the least.

AS for ANWAR... Perhaps you should read up on that as well. Did you know that it has been a Stratigic Oil Reserve for the Navy since WWII? There is a lot of Alaska, but not all of it has oil under it.

and there are a half ton of "unused" nuclear silos too....maybe we should fire those up. It may have BEEN a SOR for the navy...but it's a Wildlife reserve now....and I'm sure there is oil somewhere else in Alaska...or they could very well slant drill it.

You should perhaps look up what a Oil-Field Production manager does and how much say they would have in a company as large as BP. BTW. that his second Job... his main job is as a Commercial Fisherman.

"For 18 years, he worked for BP Oil in the North Slope oil fields of Alaska. In 2007, in order to avoid a conflict of interest, he took a leave from his job as production supervisor when his employer became involved in natural gas pipeline negotiations with his wife's administration. Seven months later, because the family needed more income, Todd returned to BP, and, again order to avoid potential conflict of interest, he accepted a non-management position as a production operator. He is also a commercial salmon fisherman at Bristol Bay on the Nushugak River. Financial statements filed in 2007 state that Palin earned $46,000 from his fishing business and $46,790 from BP."

well...consider that he gets paid MORE for his job at BP...I would say that is the "primary" job due to income.

Also

"They cite her eagerness to embrace expanded offshore oil development, her lawsuit against further protection of polar bears so as not to hinder oil drilling in Alaska's ice-filled waters and her ardent support to allow oil companies into the Alaska wildlife refuge."

While I agree with you that the bears shouldn't be on the endangered list, I am suspect of her true reason why. Lets think about it....I am sure that Tom Palin is up at the top of the list to oversee the operations as a production operator, and his past as a production supervisor...IF he keeps his job due ot her being VP.

It seems to me that ONE of the reasons behind many of her decisions concerning the allowing of oil drilling in the Alaska territory happen to be that she knows it will keep her husband in "job security" for a long time.

and Halo...as ridiculous as it sounds, yes...I will goad Gaf all day long, and I will explain why: he DEMANDS that EVERYONE else post dates, Images, and sites for all this information...and I have...and all Gaf does is post one or two sites...and hands us personal stories and opinions that he expects us to be fact, or at least crediable.

Now, yet that I have backed my claims with numerous sites, images, and quotes....it's not good enough for him. He has provided ONE image of Palin "suppsoedly" pregnant...and image of her, from a back angle, in a somewhat oversized suitcoat, and expects us to all flat out accept her being pregnant at the time. He has also provided us with "stories" of how his wife "jammed out" to Rage against the machine...all the time within labor.

I am asking that he provide what he expects....I want to see crediable sites, images, and quotes....no more personal stories and opinions. I am only asking of Gaf what he has made repeated demands of from most of us.