Should Abortion Be Legal?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

This is a prime example of the kind of thing we do not want, or care to tolerate, on DGn.

really??...cuz I see it ALOT actually.

I can't even go to explain WHY what I said is socially truthful..because then all the mods will be jumping down my throat for "improper comments"...when all I would be telling you is the socially ingrained thought process of the American Majority...but hey...lets all live behind magic curtians.

and for the record...I was trying to CURB any arguements...and instead...got TL's finger pointed at me as an instigator for my efforts.

[sass_in_the_pants]

another question is, is there more parents willing to adopt, then there are aborted babies? what is the ratio here.

That's a very tough question to answer. I know, cuz I've looked. But, since Roe v Wade 48 MILLION babies have been aborted in America. For reference, the population of Spain is less than that.

Then again, there are LOTS of people who want to adopt - but don't have the 10K - 25K it typically costs in legal and other fees to pay for the adoption, so they don't even begin the process.

Or are worried that they won't pass the adoption process so they don't even begin.

And then again, there are many children that enter the adoption process later in their lives, and it is more difficult to place them for a variety of reasons. So I think that's why it's so difficult to find an accurate number on that.

I can't speak for everyone in the pro-life movement, but I do know many, many people in the movement, from the rank and file to people who are in charge.

Many HAVE adopted, some have adopted infants, some have adopted older children and some have adopted children with special needs.

Once Guy and I move into the bigger house (which will hopefully be before Christmas!!) we will start the process of being foster parents (YEAH!!)

By the way, I was pro-choice for...I dunno, fifteen years. Then I researched some stuff, I won't get into all of it here, but basically, ALL of my pro-choice rhetoric just crumbled in front of me. So I had to change everything.

[TitsMcGee]

LMFAO....we've made TON of decisions Illegal....you walk down the street with a beer in your hand....open intoxicants.....go to Canada with a warrant out.....FLEEING THE COUNTRY.......hell, I think it's illegal to go and request the amputation of your own limbs if there is nothing medically wrong with them...and no...I can't back that up with facts....but I would imagine it is.

Don't care to pay abnormally high and unfair taxes....illegal.

One more isn't gonna break the camels back...specially when it's an "Abused" choice.

I don't believe it's illegal persay, but no self respecting doctor would do it because they would be brought before the ethics committee at whatever hospital they work in.

It should be legally available, but it should also be discouraged. Abortion should not be a form of birth control.

Exactly

That's a very tough question to answer. I know, cuz I've looked. But, since Roe v Wade 48 MILLION babies have been aborted in America. For reference, the population of Spain is less than that.

Then again, there are LOTS of people who want to adopt - but don't have the 10K - 25K it typically costs in legal and other fees to pay for the adoption, so they don't even begin the process.

Or are worried that they won't pass the adoption process so they don't even begin.

And then again, there are many children that enter the adoption process later in their lives, and it is more difficult to place them for a variety of reasons. So I think that's why it's so difficult to find an accurate number on that.

I can't speak for everyone in the pro-life movement, but I do know many, many people in the movement, from the rank and file to people who are in charge.

Many HAVE adopted, some have adopted infants, some have adopted older children and some have adopted children with special needs.

Once Guy and I move into the bigger house (which will hopefully be before Christmas!!) we will start the process of being foster parents (YEAH!!)

By the way, I was pro-choice for...I dunno, fifteen years. Then I researched some stuff, I won't get into all of it here, but basically, ALL of my pro-choice rhetoric just crumbled in front of me. So I had to change everything.

During the Saddleback Church debate thingy McCain talked about adoption. He has a 17 year old daughter that his wife adopted through Mother Teresa's orphanage overseas. He was going on the lines on how he wants to make it easier for people to adopt children in this country instead of having to go overseas. I'm personally all for that, I know everyone is always for the poor kids in other countries...but what about the ones here? Sheryl Crow is one of the few celebrities who've actually adopted an American kid.

[sass_in_the_pants]

During the Saddleback Church debate thingy McCain talked about adoption. He has a 17 year old daughter that his wife adopted through Mother Teresa's orphanage overseas. He was going on the lines on how he wants to make it easier for people to adopt children in this country instead of having to go overseas. I'm personally all for that, I know everyone is always for the poor kids in other countries...but what about the ones here? Sheryl Crow is one of the few celebrities who've actually adopted an American kid.

That would be wonderful! I knew that he and his wife had adopted, so I have been hoping that with their family in the spotlight, there would be more discussion about adoption.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

If you feel an unborn fetus / group of cells / "baby"/ he / she / it has rights, I get it. If we want to say that this is not a "human life" yet and as yet has no rights, I get it.

The sub point about rape/incest that is sometimes brought up i don't quite understand. If we are saying "only in cases of rape" for instance. Not on the surface at least. I assume the "only in cases of rape/incest." assumes abortion is "wrong" (aka the unborn cells/fetus/baby/whatever) has rights. So how the pregnancy happened, in terms of the unborn "rights" would seem immaterial. Not the fetus's fault how it came to be, right?

If i was forced to sort of setup a kingdom with its how laws, basically I think my current stance would be pretty much verbatim what Mr. Beau has written up there. Legal, but discouraged. I tend to say "I'm pro-choice but against abortion." (Which then forces me to explain.) But I do like to try and understand stances that I don't currently share, as they may be right and I'm just ignorant at the moment.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Interesting how there are, as of this writing, zero undecided. You know people have strong feelings when the undecided vote is non-existent after that many total votes.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I am against third trimester abortions.....

[cptdeath]

i think i figured this out. we can put an end to this issue real quick. cops need a warrant to invade, builders need permits to build. doctors and expected mothers should have to come across the checks and balance system of higher gov. if a doctor needs a special liscence for each individual abortian. and a family or expected mother should need to aquire an abortion permit witch would be kept on federal file and signed by a representative of the state like a judge. the persons record would be reviewed before a permit is granted to oppose habitual abortions. abortion without permit will be illegal and will be punished by local laws determined by individual states giving more power to smaller gov to enforce. so depending on local laws it would more or less of a penalty maybee more leinient in say san francisco and more harsh in say salt lake city.

of course right to chose should be protected but lets not let it be used irresponably.

doctors rights should be protected in the case of emergancy abortion. they should have the right to decide in an emergancy situation without fear of penalty.

a judge issuing a permit would go by the intent of the law not personel oppinion as it is there tough civil duty. maybee the judge would interview you and speculate as to the relationships of your family and friends. maybee some counties would require an expected fathers signiture before a judge within a certian time frame and if there is no respnse the requirmeant would be waived maybee the father to be upon proving him so would be fined or penalized for not responding. the goal of the permit is to promote the growth of families, to protect life, to protect freedom of choice, and to prevent habitual abuse of those freedoms and lives involved. I'm sure doctors judges and courts would approve of such measures.

this should almost satisfy everyone on this issue.

[SaGa]

how has amaricans population expectations changed with abortion. i believe the ratio (yup used the ratio word here) for a nation to remain the same 20 years from now is 2.1(1% id imagine being deaths before person reproduces.)

i dont see amarica being over populated. or at risk any time soon, other then if immigration created it. so that cancels abortion as a means of population control

the truth is no one likes abortion. no one goes out and says ooh im pregnent. i need a abortion and feels nothing from it. the emotional pain is there for a reason. people become mentally unstable for a LONG time after that. some feel as if they are no better then someone on death row. many may never get over it.

changes with adoption should be made for those who are able to raise a child. there shouldnt be so much red tape that pushes most people away unless they happen to be a doctor or lawyer.

but on the other field. sex has become like kissing. so common that we almost forget its reproduction....so abortion seems to be one of the counters to level out this unbalence.

[sass_in_the_pants]

the emotional pain is there for a reason. people become mentally unstable for a LONG time after that. some feel as if they are no better then someone on death row. many may never get over it.

This is more true than most people realize. An Elliot Institute study published in August 2003 edition of the Southern Medical Journal found that women who had abortions were seven times more likely to commit suicide than women who gave birth.

There are several support groups out there for women who have had abortions. Some come a few weeks after the abortion, some twenty years. Some were pressured into the abortion by a boyfriend. Some have gone on to the career which they feared they would have to give up if they had the baby. Some have gone on to have children later in life. All carry a heavy emotional burden.

[Guest greyhalo]

pull back the claws, TL. I was simply advocating caution against turning this into another war, just like all the other threads.....having said that, it's NOT the end of discussion because your "it's all about choice, not about the MORALS or the FACTS" attitude says it is. As long as it's civil, and facts are statted, then there is no problem with discussing the continued legalization of Abortion.

btw...thanks for being another prime example why a woman won't be running this country anytime soon....the ability to read WAY too much into something, because she doesn't agree with the opinion of the person saying it.

**sigh**

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

**sigh**

a real american...disatisfied with the truth....

[Goth Brooks]

Until males are given the ability to carry a fetus, and delivery a child, our opinion should not be considered at all.

This is a female only issue. A male's contribution, while still necessary to the creation of a child, amounts to dick diddly compared to the woman's.

If you have a pair of balls swinging, shut the fuck up about abortion.

[eleven]

Now i dont think i would ever do it...but to each their own i dont believe it is up to anyone but the 'mother'

[sass_in_the_pants]

no one goes out and says ooh im pregnent. i need a abortion and feels nothing from it.

I forgot to mention earlier...some women DO feel nothing from abortion. They are the ones I am most worried about.

[Goth Brooks]

I forgot to mention earlier...some women DO feel nothing from abortion. They are the ones I am most worried about.

Better abortions every few months and torn up wombs, than 20 kids and a permanent spot in the welfare line.

[punk_princess]

Yes it should be legal especially in cases of rape and/or incest. I personally would never have one but I would not judge someone if they did.

[Reaper]

I do feel that abortion should be kept legal. We are getting to the point where everything we do will end up having legal action. Every turn we take to "legalizing" things, we drop another point in the future where we have to ask everytime we do something. I am definitely not for that. I believe in free thought and free action. You live with your consequences and actions eventually. I also think that education is important before the process of abortion. One could think, unless the person is unfit for giving birth, that she could give the child up for adoption. The younger the child is, the better the chance that the child will never know who his/her parent(s) was/were which ends up in a better growing period of identity.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Until males are given the ability to carry a fetus, and delivery a child, our opinion should not be considered at all.

This is a female only issue. A male's contribution, while still necessary to the creation of a child, amounts to dick diddly compared to the woman's.

If you have a pair of balls swinging, shut the fuck up about abortion.

As long, no matter the circumstance, we are held financially responsible for a child we have fathered, I believe we do have a say. At least we should.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

btw...thanks for being another prime example why a woman won't be running this country anytime soon....the ability to read WAY too much into something, because she doesn't agree with the opinion of the person saying it.

Of all the posts that have ever been deleted or edited for being offensive... this drivel is allowed to stay?

GodfallenPromos... that statement is a prime example of sexism. Please, keep your pigheaded, backwards, shameful and abusive comments to your self. I didn't much care for you before... Now I see you for the sexist waste of good air that you are.

[Goth Brooks]

As long, no matter the circumstance, we are held financially responsible for a child we have fathered, I believe we do have a say. At least we should.

I've always held the stance that they are two completely separate issues.

Just thinking about child support gives me a headache, and I have no kids.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Of all the posts that have ever been deleted or edited for being offensive... this drivel is allowed to stay?

GodfallenPromos... that statement is a prime example of sexism. Please, keep your pigheaded, backwards, shameful and abusive comments to your self. I didn't much care for you before... Now I see you for the sexist waste of good air that you are.

ooo...ANOTHER person not ready for the truth...here is an idea Gaf....fucking MOVE out of the country.

It's not sexist to tell people the truth..and the truth is that the way women are portrayed in this country...either as sex objects, "oh, woe is me" feminist, over-emotional psychos, or power-grubbing bitches, America is FAR away from having a female president. If you don't like it....do something to change it....but you don't...nor can you

thanks for playing....go find another game you don't know, nor understand, anything about.

Edited September 2, 2008 by GodfallenPromos

[SaGa]

pro-choice and pro-life have taken a role outside emotion. politicians like these issues. but pro-choice shouldnt be a badge of honor. a badge of death is what it is in the most literal scence. im pro-life, but im not going to cram it down people about how bad they are. perhaps pro-choice points to society itself and what its becoming.

but anyways, in this day in age pregnancy isnt celebrated bye many. it used to be a long time ago. many where happy when they had kids. many also waited. now like i said before. people dont have sex to procreate. infact reproduction is the last thing on peoples minds. thus a pregnancy is seen as a fuck up more then the creation of life, its a sad truth in society these days.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

ooo...ANOTHER person not ready for the truth...here is an idea Gaf....fucking MOVE out of the country.

It's not sexist to tell people the truth..and the truth is that the way women are portrayed in this country...either as sex objects, "oh, woe is me" feminist, over-emotional psychos, or power-grubbing bitches, America is FAR away from having a female president. If you don't like it....do something to change it....but you don't...nor can you

thanks for playing....go find another game you don't know, nor understand, anything about.

Come on. Keep talking. You hole isn't deep enough yet.

You are just butt-hurt because you keep spouting bullshit and I keep proving you to be wrong or making you look like a fool.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Come on. Keep talking. You hole isn't deep enough yet.

You are just butt-hurt because you keep spouting bullshit and I keep proving you to be wrong or making you look like a fool.

ohhh....so now your going to tell EVERYONE here that women aren't held mostly to those four social views??

where the fuck have you been since the 1930's?? Guam??

and no, Gaf...you have yet to prove me wrong on ANYTHING...all you do is prove that you pay no attention to the mass of society around you.