Obama vs. McCain

[Fin]

Michigan is to a Republican state. It "seems" like a Democrat state because of one area.

That's not entirely accurate.

Several select college towns & urban areas outside Detroit (such as Saginaw, Flint, Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Kalamazoo, etc.) have generally favored Democrats in the last several presidential elections. By sheer geographic distortion, Michigan would certainly look like a "red" state. By population cartogram, however, it is quite clear that Michigan has been "blue" since 1992.

[Goth Brooks]

Maybe things will change this year.

One can only hope. I'm sure Obama's tax changes will just hasten the slow death Detroit/Michigan is dying.

[TitsMcGee]

Good point.

On the other hand, your first statement sounds a lot like towing the party line. Which, of course, you are most entitled to do.

Nope I have no party affiliation

[SaGa]

i side with the libertarians on many issues. not to the extreme. but i hate wastefulness. and tax dollars that end up being wasted on nothing useful. the only problem is in a libertarian society, i can see the rich families staying rich and the poor staying poor. less chance of the poor getting training when financial problems arise

[Fin]

Nope I have no party affiliation

Interesting! Will keep that in mind.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I was undecided until Obama named Biden as his running mate. I dislike Biden with a passion to begin with.. and the hypocracy of Obama naming a Washington insider to his his platform of "change" was the last straw that pushed me toward McCain.

They are all politicians and humans. I just take hypocrisy as a given. I guess its more of a question about how MUCH hipocacy, more than hypocrisy itself.

But in terms of "change" I'm assuming he means "change from the current administration." not necessarily "change the whole political system and ignore any positive effects or usefulness of having people on staff that have been involved in government their whole lives.

Still need to know how the system works if you want to change it.

[Rev.Reverence]

They are all politicians and humans. I just take hypocrisy as a given. I guess its more of a question about how MUCH hipocacy, more than hypocrisy itself.

But in terms of "change" I'm assuming he means "change from the current administration." not necessarily "change the whole political system and ignore any positive effects or usefulness of having people on staff that have been involved in government their whole lives.

Still need to know how the system works if you want to change it.

+1

[sass_in_the_pants]

I'm voting for McCain.

Again, experience trumps charisma.

Also, he's been on the Daily Show like six times and I think he's quite funny.

Not that that would swing my vote, I'm just throwing it out there.

As far as whether or not Michigan is a red or a blue state...we've had a Dem governor for eight years. Some people might just be fed up with the whole party. Like I said before, I think this election is a whole new ballgame - I think party affiliations are going to be less important than a particular candidate's stand and record.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

They are all politicians and humans. I just take hypocrisy as a given. I guess its more of a question about how MUCH hipocacy, more than hypocrisy itself.

But in terms of "change" I'm assuming he means "change from the current administration." not necessarily "change the whole political system and ignore any positive effects or usefulness of having people on staff that have been involved in government their whole lives.

Still need to know how the system works if you want to change it.

Perhaps, you should read the transcript of his acceptance speach again. He wants wide sweeping changes to the whole system.

His public statements against "washington insiders" and how things inside "the beltway" are done. Read those too.

[Fin]

Perhaps, you should read the transcript of his acceptance speach again. He wants wide sweeping changes to the whole system.

His public statements against "washington insiders" and how things inside "the beltway" are done. Read those too.

Do you have a problem with such statements?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I'm voting for McCain.

Again, experience trumps charisma.

Also, he's been on the Daily Show like six times and I think he's quite funny.

Not that that would swing my vote, I'm just throwing it out there.

As far as whether or not Michigan is a red or a blue state...we've had a Dem governor for eight years. Some people might just be fed up with the whole party. Like I said before, I think this election is a whole new ballgame - I think party affiliations are going to be less important than a particular candidate's stand and record.

Obama does have a strong following in MI though....he catered to the Unions for Labor day....something the Presidental Nominees for the Democratic Party used to do quote often in the 60's and 70's.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Depends.

Do you say them and then appoint someome like Biden as your running mate? I have a problem with them then.

Obama talks of "Change" all the time. He talks of not wanting to be surrounded by "washington insiders". he talks about being "outside the beltway". he talks about changing the way things are done in Washington...

And then named Biden?

yeah, I have a problem with that.

Biden is the definition of "washington insider" and "inside the beltway".

[Fin]

Depends.

Do you say them and then appoint someome like Biden as your running mate? I have a problem with them then.

Obama talks of "Change" all the time. He talks of not wanting to be surrounded by "washington insiders". he talks about being "outside the beltway". he talks about changing the way things are done in Washington...

And then named Biden?

yeah, I have a problem with that.

Biden is the definition of "washington insider" and "inside the beltway".

On the other hand, Biden has been a highly vocal *ahem* critic of the conservative "follow-the-leader" mentality Washington has espoused since the arrival of George W Bush.

An insider yes--but a progressive rebel & a fighter for his cause nonetheless. He's been forced to do so by the paradigm shift to the right this country has undergone. And love him or hate him, Biden vocally addresses what he sees as the wrong direction our country is headed.

[SaGa]

it seems the poor is turning into a socialistic backbone for the country. those without the funds to choose get stuck with what the goverment will help them achieve. while everyone just pays taxes to keep them alive.

obama has a lot of plans AND wants to cut taxes. and the way hes going to get the money is what cut the military out of international affairs. heh that hurt the economy some right there. if we cut out as fast as obama is wanting it whould flood the market with jobseekers. while loosing jobs from the industries who supply to the military.

Edited September 3, 2008 by SaGa

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You should read his whole tax plan. He is not going to cut taxes at all.

[Fin]

obama has a lot of plans AND wants to cut taxes.

More programs require higher taxes. These will have to be levied from someone--the Obama plan places a higher tax burden on the wealthy.

The problem with subscribing to the "no new taxes" view of modern-era Republicans is that they have not cut spending enough to keep up with their tax cuts, turning the U.S. into one of the largest debtor nations in the world.

Deficit spending & borrowing in place of taxing the citizens of our country is fiscally irresponsible. It has slowly turned the U.S. into a bank-owned subsidiary of large lending nations such as China. It's complete madness.

The two candidates must remain firm: Tax & spend, OR cut & balance. But do NOT cut & borrow. This is a failed policy that we can no longer afford.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Fin

[n0Mad]

Which is why I like Palin. She's good at cutting spending and trying to recover losses.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Which is why I like Palin. She's good at cutting spending and trying to recover losses.

you DID read the whole "dairy creamary" series of events...haven't you??

I know that is an isolated incident...but it does put a red flag in my head.

[n0Mad]

you DID read the whole "dairy creamary" series of events...haven't you??

I know that is an isolated incident...but it does put a red flag in my head.

And you did read Gaf's response about that? Palin was able to recover $1.5 million which had she done it your way she would've recovered $0. Sounds like a win to me even though it ended up a loss.

[phee]

To be honest I like Palin better then McCain....

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

And you did read Gaf's response about that? Palin was able to recover $1.5 million which had she done it your way she would've recovered $0. Sounds like a win to me even though it ended up a loss.

actually...if she would have let the board shut down and sell the plant before hand....like they wanted to do...they would have recovered over $5 million for the plant. It's not a win, because Palin's stubborness lost the state 3.5 million from lack of an initial sale...and then another 1 million+ because they couldn't sell it almost two years later.

don't take Gaf's word on everything.

[Fin]

Which is why I like Palin. She's good at cutting spending and trying to recover losses.

Too bad she won't be approving the budget.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

actually...if she would have let the board shut down and sell the plant before hand....like they wanted to do...they would have recovered over $5 million for the plant. It's not a win, because Palin's stubborness lost the state 3.5 million from lack of an initial sale...and then another 1 million+ because they couldn't sell it almost two years later.

don't take Gaf's word on everything.

No one ever offered them 5 million. Where the hell did you get that number?

It was a state owned and operated business. It was loosing money. (like most government operated businesses do... doesn't that sound good for Universal Health Care).

The State Agriculture Board wanted to shut it down. Palin did not. As is her power, she replaced them with people who would do as she asked them to.

The state invested $600,000 into it to try to save it. The thought being.. as long as it was open... people had jobs. The influx of money didn't help though.

The state listed the property for sale with a minimum bid of $3.5 million. No one bid on it. So they lowered the min bid until someone bought the place... for $1.5 million.

No one lost thier jobs. Palin was able to recoup $1.5 million of the States lost revenue.

If she had followed the advice of the original board... everyone that worked there would be out of a job and the state would not have recouped a red cent.

How was Palin's plan bad again?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Too bad she won't be approving the budget.

No, as leader of the Senate.. she will be drafting it.

[Fin]

No, as leader of the Senate.. she will be drafting it.

Let's hope her zero-sum arithmetic is up to par.

Keep us in the black, Madam Vice President.