Pray for money and protection from witchcraft, Palin

[Raev]

Dude... G.W. was a Mason... NOTHING to do with Quakers...

The Masons were of a decidedly "DEIST" theosophy... so... you can take your buzzer &..........you know

George Washington was not only a Freemason raised to the degree of Master in the state of Virginia and he just like Ben Franklin (another Mason) were indeed deists. Of the signers of the Dec. of Independence, 9 of 55 were Freemasons. Many of those 55 were involved in the drafting and ratifying of the Constitution. The majority being neither Freemason nor Quaker.

The core of the new ideals presented in the Constitution comes from literature on Republicanism with other strong ties to as well as the beliefs of Montesquieu.

Quakers have a belief of direct experience of God was available to all people, without mediation . George Fox described this by writing that "Christ has come to teach His people Himself."

In addition, generally speaking Quakers have no creed. Freemasons, do.

In contrast to this, you have the Freemasons whom are rather different from the Quakers and have members from all styles of faiths in which a "higher power" is believed in - but there is no religious tie amongst Brothers other than that. There is no core Masonic religious belief.

While it is true that there is a parallel to some Masonic ideals to some of the writings of the Declaration and Constitution, this is almost a coincidence. Yes, some of the founding fathers were Freemasons but they were not the majority. Of course Freemasons cast their votes toward something they believed in - but the core of the structure draws the majority of it's influence from the above mentioned items and John Locke.

The due process clause of the United States Constitution was partly based on common law stretching back to the Magna Carta of 1215.

As for my stating no references in speaking on Freemasons - I cite myself as my own reference.

Master Freemason.

Hiram110, Flat Rock MI.

[creatureofthenyte]

As long as it doesn't interfere(sp?) with her job performance, or negatively sway her thoughts and decisions while on the job,

WHY!!!!!!???? should we give a shit about what religion she practices??

I so totally think that religion and work should be two Separate things.

If Palin becomes VP, and does a good job, then I could care less what religion she belongs to.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

As long as it doesn't interfere(sp?) with her job performance, or negatively sway her thoughts and decisions while on the job,

WHY!!!!!!???? should we give a shit about what religion she practices??

I so totally think that religion and work should be two Separate things.

If Palin becomes VP, and does a good job, then I could care less what religion she belongs to.

because it DOES interfere with her job...it already has in what she has said and what she wants to do..just like it does for John McCain...and as a zealotous Christian that Palin seems to be...her religious beliefs will be a HUGE deciding weight on everything she does...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Don't forget Obama. He talks about God and his Faith guiding him all the time.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Didn't know the "negative" definition of demagogue until just now. (Read it above.) I've always known it in context with ancient history where its used as a positive term. Wow. Wonder how many articles I've read with the word in it that had a totally opposite meaning from what i thought. Odd how some words can have two contradictory meanings (like "cleave").

Oops... bit too far off topic. *bites lip*

[Troy Spiral (13)]

As long as it doesn't interfere(sp?) with her job performance, or negatively sway her thoughts and decisions while on the job,

WHY!!!!!!???? should we give a shit about what religion she practices??

I so totally think that religion and work should be two Separate things.

If Palin becomes VP, and does a good job, then I could care less what religion she belongs to.

because it DOES interfere with her job...it already has in what she has said and what she wants to do..just like it does for John McCain...and as a zealotous Christian that Palin seems to be...her religious beliefs will be a HUGE deciding weight on everything she does...

If someones religion doesn't influence their decisions we all should call shenanigans and assume they where only in the religion to get votes due to dupes not realizing whats going on.

They'd better have it influence their actions or they've been lying to us all along. Would be a far worse lie than something about a blow job.

[sass_in_the_pants]

If someones religion doesn't influence their decisions we all should call shenanigans and assume they where only in the religion to get votes due to dupes not realizing whats going on.

They'd better have it influence their actions or they've been lying to us all along. Would be a far worse lie than something about a blow job.

I have to agree here. My faith impacts EVER SINGLE THING I DO.

I don't say it. It's not like I announce 'I'm making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because Jesus loves me'

That would be lame.

But I think a person's spiritual life SHOULD impact all of their decisions - otherwise you're leading like two separate lives in one person and that can be confusing. Not to mention duplicitous.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Don't forget Obama. He talks about God and his Faith guiding him all the time.

he's also not coming off overly zealotous about it, Gaf...

[Rev.Reverence]

If someones religion doesn't influence their decisions we all should call shenanigans and assume they where only in the religion to get votes due to dupes not realizing whats going on.

They'd better have it influence their actions or they've been lying to us all along. Would be a far worse lie than something about a blow job.

HURRAY!

HUZZAH!

& TOO RIGHT!

[Rev.Reverence]

did you just give Obama a negative for the sins of his father???....

No... because I found out that his father was Muslim... I knew that there was some such Muslim academy he attended in the past... I know the Rep. Party was rippin' on him for it... I never saw him get the 'proper attitude'... which would be a righteous indignation... to the effect of telling off the Rep. Party... somethings I would say would be:

""" What problem do you have with me knowing my heritage?

Do you mean to say that ALL Muslims (or those who studied Islam) are Terrorist sympathizers? """

...of course I would have been foaming at the mouth & cursing left & right...

...but I would like to see SOMEONE stand up for themselves...

....also...he got ANOTHER -1 because instead of standing up for himself & his father... he played the same fucking game as McCain, & every one else...

...WELCOME TO U.S.A. H.S......

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

he's also not coming off overly zealotous about it, Gaf...

We are going to have to agree to disagree here.

[phee]

he's also not coming off overly zealotous about it, Gaf...

this is a matter of opinion of course

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

this is a matter of opinion of course

when compared to Palin, I would have to say that he is not zealotous about it...not in the way she is...Palin is showing a dangerous side of zealotism...while Obama's is more zealous of his faith...

Palin, on the other hand, seems to be changing her faith around to suit who she needs to talk to next. And when she does...she comes across as more hardcore about it then the people that have stuck with it for years.

Palin seems to have "faith" in a dangerous way.....Obama seems to have "faith" more akin to a priest or monk...

[phee]

when compared to Palin, I would have to say that he is not zealotous about it...not in the way she is...Palin is showing a dangerous side of zealotism...while Obama's is more zealous of his faith...

Palin, on the other hand, seems to be changing her faith around to suit who she needs to talk to next. And when she does...she comes across as more hardcore about it then the people that have stuck with it for years.

Palin seems to have "faith" in a dangerous way.....Obama seems to have "faith" more akin to a priest or monk...

These again are opinions...

[Shade Everdark]

I have to agree here. My faith impacts EVER SINGLE THING I DO.

I don't say it. It's not like I announce 'I'm making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because Jesus loves me'

That would be lame.

But I think a person's spiritual life SHOULD impact all of their decisions - otherwise you're leading like two separate lives in one person and that can be confusing. Not to mention duplicitous.

Question, just as a point of practicality, here: while I'm glad that your spirituality is important enough to you to guide you in your decisions, in what way do you think spirituality should impact the decisions made by those who have none?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

when compared to Palin, I would have to say that he is not zealotous about it...not in the way she is...Palin is showing a dangerous side of zealotism...while Obama's is more zealous of his faith...

Palin, on the other hand, seems to be changing her faith around to suit who she needs to talk to next. And when she does...she comes across as more hardcore about it then the people that have stuck with it for years.

Palin seems to have "faith" in a dangerous way.....Obama seems to have "faith" more akin to a priest or monk...

Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics. Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power’s sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God . . . We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.

Obama

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I still don't see how you are comparing Obama's faith to Palin's zealotism....

[phee]

I still don't see how you are comparing Obama's faith to Palin's zealotism....

One persons faith is another persons zealotism

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't see how you can call what other people say about Palin to be "her zealotism". When Obama, in his own words, says the same thing and it is somehow not zealotism.

Really...

Other people pray to God that Palin is "on the path" of God.

Obama prays that he is the instrument of God.

If anyone is being a zealot, it's Obama.

GFP. Just admit it. You have a burning hatred for Palin without any rational reason to hate her. So you keep grasping at straws, no matter how thin and flimsy in an atempt to justify your hatred. When those straws slip away (see just about every one of your various posts about her evilness that have turned out to be falsethat you have then pretended never happened. I can go back an list them all if you like) You reach for another thin straw.

You have hated her from the moment she was named. You hated her before you knew a damn thing about her.

You really need to come to grips with what really bothers you about her and deal with it.

[phee]

Here we go again..

Crew... brace for impact

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I don't see how you can call what other people say about Palin to be "her zealotism". When Obama, in his own words, says the same thing and it is somehow not zealotism.

Really...

Other people pray to God that Palin is "on the path" of God.

Obama prays that he is the instrument of God.

If anyone is being a zealot, it's Obama.

GFP. Just admit it. You have a burning hatred for Palin without any rational reason to hate her. So you keep grasping at straws, no matter how thin and flimsy in an atempt to justify your hatred. When those straws slip away (see just about every one of your various posts about her evilness that have turned out to be falsethat you have then pretended never happened. I can go back an list them all if you like) You reach for another thin straw.

You have hated her from the moment she was named. You hated her before you knew a damn thing about her.

You really need to come to grips with what really bothers you about her and deal with it.

what REALLY bothers me about her is that there were much better qualified female canidates, as well as much better qualified male canidates, but she was chosen MAJORILY because of her "sex appeal" and to "shake up the McCain ticket"...nothing more...she was chosen BECAUSE she was female, NOT because of her record...IF she had a much better record in government, then things would be different...but all EVERYONE is seeing, and no..you can't pin-point me out, because phee, rev, and TONS of other ppl across the nation see it too...is that she is OVERLY zealotus..to the point where it is dangerous...and that she flapjacks about all her "amazing" events.

Give it a rest Gaf...if you stick a snorkle up her ass and breath in....her shyt doesn't smell like roses...it smells like shyt...

and also...stop insinuating that I am a racist and/or a feminist....you undeniably have those qualities...don't try to get over your own guilt by making someone else to be what their not. Frankly..I'm sick of it.

[Rev.Reverence]

WOAH...hold on...

*catches breath*

faith

something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs

zealot

a zealous person ; especially : a fanatical partisan

fanatic

marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion

seems they are all linked...eh?

a zealot = fanatic = intense uncritical devotion = something like faith

[Raev]

I can easily say what bothers me about Palin.

Her lack of knowledge of the Bush doctrine and her little experience as a part of government on the grand stage. I'm afraid that if the worst were to happen, with her being just one heartbeat away and McCain being up in years - that she would not be adequately prepared to fill the position at hand.

Look at any President at the beginning and end of their terms. They all look like hell. It's a highly demanding, stressful, thankless job. I have a serious question in my mind and heart as to if she has the stones (for lack of better phrase) to handle the job.

On the flipside of the equation, Obama doesn't have *much* experience but he does have *some*. His runningmate has extensive legal and political experience as well as knowledge.

/derail off.

[Raev]

and also...stop insinuating that I am a racist and/or a feminist....you undeniably have those qualities...don't try to get over your own guilt by making someone else to be what their not. Frankly..I'm sick of it.

I must address this with - it is your opinion that he has those qualities. We have opinions regarding each other but as I was so bluntly abused and corrected with 6-8 weeks ago....just because something appears that way to one of us, that does not make it true. We do not truly know the hearts and minds of each other on here.

[phee]

I must address this with - it is your opinion that he has those qualities. We have opinions regarding each other but as I was so bluntly abused and corrected with 6-8 weeks ago....just because something appears that way to one of us, that does not make it true. We do not truly know the hearts and minds of each other on here.

This is a very intuitive and wise statement

*bows*