House defeats $700 bailout

[Enishi]

Things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser...

House defeats bailout plan

[Slogo]

Corporate Socialism fails

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I've liked this less and less the more I learned about it.

I was happy to see the major funding to ACORN taken out. I was also happy to see that Republicans (no matter how much Obama trys to take credit for it) insert provisions to limit "golden parachutes" and impose limitations on the power of the Fed.

Democrats have been trying to ram this down our throats from the begining...

Then that speech that Pelosi gave today...

was she trying to kill it?

[Fin]

I've liked this less and less the more I learned about it.

I was happy to see the major funding to ACORN taken out. I was also happy to see that Republicans (no matter how much Obama trys to take credit for it) insert provisions to limit "golden parachutes" and impose limitations on the power of the Fed.

Democrats have been trying to ram this down our throats from the begining...

Then that speech that Pelosi gave today...

was she trying to kill it?

The entire concept was flawed. I am very surprised that GWBush backed this to begin with. I do believe, however, that lack of regulation & corporate favoritism led us to this point--much of which stemmed from support from the GWBush administration for the past eight years.

[phee]

The entire concept was flawed. I am very surprised that GWBush backed this to begin with. I do believe, however, that lack of regulation & corporate favoritism led us to this point--much of which stemmed from support from the GWBush administration for the past eight years.

+1

[Enishi]

Its not just Bush. Some of this stems from policies put in place by Clinton and other administrations as well.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/26/the-u...conomic-crisis/

[Rev.Reverence]

Things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_...ancial_meltdown

Yahoo! News

Sorry, the page you requested was not found.

The story or page you were trying to access may have expired.

[n0Mad]

Its not just Bush. Some of this stems from policies put in place by Clinton and other administrations as well.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/26/the-u...conomic-crisis/

I didn't read the article so I don't know any details, but the cover of the USA Today a few days ago had a headline on how much of this fallout actually comes from the Clinton administration. Of course, 8 years of Bush certainly didn't help any but if Clinton sweeps a lot under the rug, who's going to see it there?

[Rev.Reverence]

...isn't that supposed togo the other way?

[Rev.Reverence]

I didn't read the article so I don't know any details, but the cover of the USA Today a few days ago had a headline on how much of this fallout actually comes from the Clinton administration. Of course, 8 years of Bush certainly didn't help any but if Clinton sweeps a lot under the rug, who's going to see it there?

...as the graph above clearly shows...

[n0Mad]

...isn't that supposed togo the other way?

Fixed.

[Rev.Reverence]

Fixed.

...Spook...2012...

[n0Mad]

At the risk of sounding overly-dramatic and simplistic; I cannot help but feel as if America is trying to ruin itself.

We've already had the Great Depression. What comes next? The Great Angst Filled Emo Era of Dispair?

[Enishi]

That's weird, both the articles I posted aren't showing up anymore...

Lets try again for the second one...

Techcrunk article on bad government policy

[Rev.Reverence]

We've already had the Great Depression. What comes next? The Great Angst Filled Emo Era of Dispair?

*contemplates buying shares in razor blade company*

[Rev.Reverence]

That's weird, both the articles I posted aren't showing up anymore...

Lets try again for the second one...

Bailout plan defeated by House

that's the second article...

[Enishi]

Lol, whoops.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

in a nut shell it

Under Clinton, the Lending rules for Fannie may and Freddy Mac were eased... so that more people could get homes...

Dude, under those rules you could get a home loan for $200k but did not have the credit to get a cell phone without a security deposit.

McCain tried to fix this a few years ago.. I posted a link about it somewhere else and it was defeated by the Democrats in Congress... which explains why the top 3 people who reciedved moeny from Fanny may lobbyists are Dodd, Obama and Kerry. The threee people who lost the most of thier personal money when the first large bank crashed a few weeks ago.. were Pelosi, Kerry and Dodd.

but hey... This is Bush's and the republican partys fault. (sarcasm)

[SaGa]

in a nut shell it

Under Clinton, the Lending rules for Fannie may and Freddy Mac were eased... so that more people could get homes...

Dude, under those rules you could get a home loan for $200k but did not have the credit to get a cell phone without a security deposit.

McCain tried to fix this a few years ago.. I posted a link about it somewhere else and it was defeated by the Democrats in Congress... which explains why the top 3 people who reciedved moeny from Fanny may lobbyists are Dodd, Obama and Kerry. The threee people who lost the most of thier personal money when the first large bank crashed a few weeks ago.. were Pelosi, Kerry and Dodd.

but hey... This is Bush's and the republican partys fault. (sarcasm)

its easy in everyones mind to blame bush. hes become such a easy target. blame and then go about your day. its not honest and without bias but its become popular to see bush as a complete failure. what if al gore won and 9/11 happens, does everyone think it be better then bushes two terms.

i am slightly annoyed how obama has downplayed bushs term so much. painting "the knight to save the day" persona

[Fin]

what if al gore won and 9/11 happens, does everyone think it be better then bushes two terms.

I sure as f*ck DO.

But hey--history can't be re-written. GWBush has already made the largest errors in modern history with his invasion of Iraq & complete lack of oversight of the U.S. markets, so why argue.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

OK.. then lets not re-write history and take a look at what did happen.

April 2001: President Bush sends his budget proposal to Congress. In it he declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

It's filibustered by the Democrat minority and stripped from the final bill.

May 2002: President Bush calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

It's filibustered by the Democrat minority and stripped from the final bill.

January 2003: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February 2003: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September 2003: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September 2003: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October 2003: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November 2003: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

February 2004: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February 2004: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June 2004: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

April 2005: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

July 2007: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August 2007: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September 2007: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September 2007: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December 2007: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

January 2008: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January 2008: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February 2008: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March 2008: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March 2008: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April 2008: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May 2008: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"The government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June 2008: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July 2008: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

[torn asunder]

OK.. then lets not re-write history and take a look at what did happen.

April 2001: President Bush sends his budget proposal to Congress. In it he declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

It's filibustered by the Democrat minority and stripped from the final bill.

May 2002: President Bush calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

It's filibustered by the Democrat minority and stripped from the final bill.

January 2003: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February 2003: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September 2003: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September 2003: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October 2003: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November 2003: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

February 2004: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February 2004: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June 2004: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

April 2005: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

July 2007: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August 2007: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September 2007: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September 2007: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December 2007: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

January 2008: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January 2008: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February 2008: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March 2008: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March 2008: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April 2008: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May 2008: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"The government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June 2008: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July 2008: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

great work gaf! it's good to see someone back up their position with (and i don't use this word lightly here) a *preponderance" of evidence! 'tis a good read, and quite interesting!

[TitsMcGee]

I'm kinda sad I missed Nancy Pelosi's hissy fit.

[Slogo]

What you could do with $700,000,000,000

* Give every person in the US $2,300 or give every household $6,200.

* Pay the income taxes of every American who makes $500,000 or less a year.

* Fully fund the Defense, Treasury, Education, State, Veterans Affairs and Interior departments next year, as well as NASA.

* Buy gasoline for every car in the US for 16 months.

* Create the 17th largest economy in the world - roughly equal to that of the Netherlands.

* Or you could pay off just 7% of the $9.8 trillion national debt. (via Time)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You could give EVERY adult in the USA about $470,000.