Do you make more than $603,000 dollars?

[Goth Brooks]

..& when there is no food for the children? & when they are dying in the streets?

We are the fattest nation in the world, we're not ethiopia.

[taysteewonderbunny]

Fixed

Oh really? I've signed up for welfare, have I? or am I just getting less taken out of my paycheck every two weeks?

[phee]

Oh really? I've signed up for welfare, have I? or am I just getting less taken out of my paycheck every two weeks?

I think he was implying that Obama would make it so....

[Rev.Reverence]

We are the fattest nation in the world, we're not ethiopia.

HAHAHA!

..we still have starving/homeless kids.

[Rayne]

You mean like me?

Jump up and down, curse, throw shit, grit your teeth, and bare out the storm.

You don't call up Joe Millionaire and demand he come pay your rent.

Which is what we have been doing for the past year but you can only do that for so long before you start to run out of time, energy and resources.

[phee]

Which is what we have been doing for the past year but you can only do that for so long before you start to run out of time, energy and resources.

Exactly... If there was a system that actually was based on Amount of Effort = Income then I could see a don't have enough money work harder and buy better boots....

But that is so very rarely the case....

[Goth Brooks]

HAHAHA!

..we still have starving/homeless kids.

i would blame their parents, not joe mill, or uncle sam.

how many kids are starving because their parents are smoking their welfare check away?

how many inner city kids are starving, and live in crime filled 'hoods because having a bangin ride, phat kicks, and a blingin grill with some chronic are far more important.

does that fit phee/rayne's situation? i sincerely doubt it. however, it is a situation i see every night at work.

joe plumber worked his ass off to get to making $250k a year. barack marx says "hey great... now let's take all that money and give it to people who didn't make money last year. whether they worked or not makes no difference!"

it's not the system that's flawed people, it's the people that are flawed. humans what the most from giving the least, they will do whatever it takes to milk the system. Welfare proved that beyond any shadow of a doubt, imo.

[Goth Brooks]

Exactly... If there was a system that actually was based on Amount of Effort = Income then I could see a don't have enough money work harder and buy better boots....

But that is so very rarely the case....

human nature would never allow a system to work. i think someone tried it out east not too long ago.

[phee]

human nature would never allow a system to work. i think someone tried it out east not too long ago.

That is my point....

which is why I am basically said what I said... Having a flat tax would make a lot more sense if people 100% had as much money as they earned/deserved.... But for the most part.... those with money have not really "Earned" it in the sense I am saying....

[Goth Brooks]

That is my point....

which is why I am basically said what I said... Having a flat tax would make a lot more sense if people 100% had as much money as they earned/deserved.... But for the most part.... those with money have not really "Earned" it in the sense I am saying....

i agree with a flat tax.

the fair tax is pretty good. i'd prefer just a flat 10-15% off the top. anyone who couldn't live with 85-90c on the dollar has issues.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Oh really? I've signed up for welfare, have I? or am I just getting less taken out of my paycheck every two weeks?

You will see the exact same amount taken out of your paycheck. Thank you for proving that people have not read or really even listened to Obama.

The tax break that Obama promises is a one time Check for a set amount.

40% of the people Obama is going to give a tax break too... dont pay taxes.

[torn asunder]

...NADER!!!

[creatureofthenyte]

And some other things too....

Obama wants to roll back the Bush tax cuts.

He Says he wants to roll back the Bush tax cuts on (supposedly) "only" the wealthiest Americans.

What he fails to realize, is that the bush tax cuts were given to ALL of us, Not just the rich people.

So if he rolls back the Bush tax cuts, then EVERYONE gets their taxes Raised!!!

He wants to spend Another 1 TRILLION dollars, that we currently do NOT have, on top of the bailout and all the other spending the government has already done.

And how do you think Obama's gonna pay for that??? By RAISING EVERYONE'S Taxes!!!

Ya gotta wake up and Stop drinking his Cool Aid man!

Obama doesn't care about us.

He just wants to take our money thru higher taxes.

McCain's plan "might" not be all that great, but Obama's plan will flush America's economy down the toilet and into the ground!

[n0Mad]

Obama's plan will flush America's economy down the toilet and into the ground!

Bad analogy. Our economy is already flushed down the toilet. Obama's plan is that big wad of toilet paper that will clog the system and flood our house forcing us to call Joe the Plumber in to come fix it.

[Goth Brooks]

Bad analogy. Our economy is already flushed down the toilet. Obama's plan is that big wad of toilet paper that will clog the system and flood our house forcing us to call Joe the Plumber in to come fix it.

Joe sold his business the day before the inauguration and is now an expat in Cuba sippin mojitos and pinching the asses of saucy latin ladies.

[n0Mad]

Joe sold his business the day before the inauguration and is now an expat in Cuba sippin mojitos and pinching the asses of saucy latin ladies.

Sounds like he's got a great economic plan.

[Goth Brooks]

NOT MINE But I could find no fault with the reasoning and numbers:

If you start taking 70% of every dime I make over $250,000 a year, I still get to live like a rich man.

But I have a heck of a lot less money to re-invest into my business to create new jobs.

The bottom 97% will suffer worse.

Who will create jobs for them? The airlines? Automakers? The financial industry?

Right now, the only broad segment of society that is creating jobs is small business.

Do you know many "jobs" that pay $250,000 a year or more? There are some, but they're very few. Even senior executives in large companies sometimes don't make that much.

Most of those folks making over $250,000 a year are small business owners. They get that much not as compensation for their labor, but as a return on their investment.

That's what Joe the Plumber was getting at: why invest if the only person who will benefit is the government?

I know you feel that your sarcasm is well-placed and that nobody should feel sorry for a person who makes over $250,000 a year. I highly suspect there's a slight twinge of satisfaction in knowing that the fat cats will get bitch slapped by these new, ridiculous taxes.

But they'll still be rich. Even at $250,000 a year, and only 30 cents on the dollar for each dollar earned after that.

But the guy who would have gotten a job? For every dollar the government takes in, by the time it gets through all the bureaucracy and corruption, the little guy without a job will be lucky to get a small fraction of that money.

And if invested, that money could have meant a job for years to come. Instead, the government will waste it on a one-time band-aid.

So, yeah, go ahead. Be sarcastic. You're clearly Obama's target audience: people who want free candy and enjoy the prospect of anything that sticks a thumb in the eye of a rich guy.

I just don't see that as either the way a mature, successful adult thinks, or the way a person with any inkling of how business drives the economy would wish.

But that's just me. Like I said, I can only hope Obama is wiser than the rhetoric he's manipulating you with at the moment. He said he would adhere to campaign spending limits. Instead, he basically destroyed campaign finanance reform, forever.

He's saying he won't tax you. He's saying he only wants to take money from others.

I hope his wisdom is greater than his dishonesty this time.

[Goth Brooks]

And by the way, as I've said countless times, and as Obama knows, but won't mention, these new taxes won't hit the top 3% richest people. They'll just hit the top 3% wage earners.

The top 3% richest people don't get their income via labor. So, income taxes and social security taxes mean nothing to them.

You can try to get at them with capital gains taxes, but people only pay those when they realize capital gains, which is a purely voluntary activity.

Obama knows this. He knows he won't be harming the truly rich. He's just isolating a few people to dupe folks like you into believing he's going to run around kicking rich folks in the nuts.

I'm talking about the total burden of taxation, not just the federal tax burden.

Let's start with this:

<<33% on the income between $200,300 and $357,700; plus $44,828.00>>

Is that just the federal tax burden? If Obama gets his way, there'll be an additional 12.4% tax (social security) on earnings over $250,000.

And there's still medicare: 2.9%

(These rates are the self-employment rate, which is more honest than the "employee" rate since the employee rate makes it appear that nobody is paying the other portion.)

So, right off the bat, we're talking about 33% plus 12.4% plus 2.9%. That's just the FEDERAL tax burden: 48.3%, right?

Then, do you live in a state with an income tax? You're looking at another 5%.

How about a state like Michigan with a small business tax? That's based on GROSS REVENUES of the business.

Do you have property taxes? I pay about $4,000 a year and I live in a pretty modest home.

How about a city with an income tax? That's another 2%.

How about sales taxes?

You'll notice that I say that current marginal tax burden is "about 50%". It's based on so many factors that a more precise number just isn't possible to determine. But trust me on this, the tax man is already at the door.

And under Obama, he'll take 70 cents on every dollar. at that point, we're just working for the government.

And over the $350-ish number the marginal rate increases yet again. Under Obama, it'll be back to 39.6%. That's quite a leap over the 28% that it was at the end of the Reagan years.

[SaGa]

perhaps this tax incress. is to be subsitute for hoarding investers and rich people not investing. trickle down politics works, but only if those who have money are going to engineer buisness growth. so what happens if wallstreet gets hit when the rich find they cant invest as much now. as we are seeing currently

the real issue i can see, is it pushing those with a lot of money to hide there money more. to box it up, or put there wealth in commodities instead of cash. and whould this create a more hoarding economy, with less investments to be made. wallstreet may be a bunch of dickhead rich guys, but can you imagine what whould happen if lets say the blue chips fell another 3000 points. it put MANY companies beyond there breaking point. and since so many companies feed of the bigger ones. it could trickle down.

of course change happens a lot faster in the mist of a crisis. the question is, will this change machine be too fast for everyone to handle it without reprocutions

[Velvet Tears]

We can't blame the economy for everyone's money problems. We need to blame the "people" themselves, because they think they "need" everything they really can't afford ex: House, cars, cell phones, internet, cable, ect. If you are really hurting that bad then get rid of things you can do without. Use a house phone, basic or no cable, used cars, a house you can afford, eat at home, get rid of the internet if you are hurting that bad. I think some a lot of people like to use our current state of the economy as an excuse, but it's really over spending that is their own fault. This post is not directed at any one person, but people in this country need to really look at themselves and what extra's they are spending their money. They need to stop blaming everyone else for their own mess.

[Goth Brooks]

We can't blame the economy for everyone's money problems. We need to blame the "people" themselves, because they think they "need" everything they really can't afford ex: House, cars, cell phones, internet, cable, ect. If you are really hurting that bad then get rid of things you can do without. Use a house phone, basic or no cable, used cars, a house you can afford, eat at home, get rid of the internet if you are hurting that bad. I think some a lot of people like to use our current state of the economy as an excuse, but it's really over spending that is their own fault. This post is not directed at any one person in general, but people in this country need to really look at themselves and what extra's they are spending their money. They need to stop blaming everyone else for their own mess.

i demand you marry me.

who are you dating/married to? i will challenge them to a duel to the death.

[Rev.Reverence]

i agree with a flat tax.

the fair tax is pretty good. i'd prefer just a flat 10-15% off the top. anyone who couldn't live with 85-90c on the dollar has issues.

...we need a wage that is ACTUALLY LIVABLE before we can be taxed like that...

[Goth Brooks]

...we need a wage that is ACTUALLY LIVABLE before we can be taxed like that...

minimum wage isn't supposed to be a livable wage.. it's supposed to be a "get your fucking ass in check and find a better job" wage.

btw, i disagree with minimum wage.

p.s. - i make roughly min wage after taxes. i have no problem paying rent, utilities, insurance, and fuel, and still having enough to throw hundreds at my debt.

[Rayne]

We can't blame the economy for everyone's money problems. We need to blame the "people" themselves, because they think they "need" everything they really can't afford ex: House, cars, cell phones, internet, cable, ect. If you are really hurting that bad then get rid of things you can do without. Use a house phone, basic or no cable, used cars, a house you can afford, eat at home, get rid of the internet if you are hurting that bad. I think some a lot of people like to use our current state of the economy as an excuse, but it's really over spending that is their own fault. This post is not directed at any one person in general, but people in this country need to really look at themselves and what extra's they are spending their money. They need to stop blaming everyone else for their own mess.

We did. We re-evaluated everything.

When my ex's house got forclosed on and the kids all came to live with me full time we did a lot to try and balance it.

Put the house on the market (it didn't sell after a year) to move to a cheaper area and cheaper home, gave up the lease car for a used vehicle we bought cheap outright and fixed up, condensed a lot of services, drastically reduced our food bills, cut our gas bill ... we did a lot. Our cable/internet are a work benefit, no cost for us there or it would be gone.

I've been there, I've been worse actually. It happens, bad economy or not. I have a hard time believing this time, however is NOT due to the economy. 5 years ago I was driving the same amount of miles, but only spending $200 a month in gas. Now I pay about $400 a month for gas. Our escrow for our property taxes was raised to $300 MORE than our house payment each month, which increased as well. We pay more for food, more for items we need, more for utilities. We pay more usage taxes on services we've had all along but haven't paid usage taxes that high until now ...

Our mortgage company went down in flames, followed by some banks that affected us.

Everything costs more and everyone has less. It's not because I chose to buy a .69 cent candy bar the other day.

[SaGa]

We can't blame the economy for everyone's money problems. We need to blame the "people" themselves, because they think they "need" everything they really can't afford ex: House, cars, cell phones, internet, cable, ect. If you are really hurting that bad then get rid of things you can do without. Use a house phone, basic or no cable, used cars, a house you can afford, eat at home, get rid of the internet if you are hurting that bad. I think some a lot of people like to use our current state of the economy as an excuse, but it's really over spending that is their own fault. This post is not directed at any one person, but people in this country need to really look at themselves and what extra's they are spending their money. They need to stop blaming everyone else for their own mess.

people are the economy. over consumerism has created the bubble that is now burst. and thats how the economy works. bye spending instead of saving. thats how the temporary incress in jobs is created.

i think the anime metropolis(along with many robot replacing people anime and shows) put it into perspective bye stating that if robots did mans work. how whould a capitalistic society survive. how whould people generate money if the few owning the robots did all the work. this socety has become like that. as there are so many unneeded jobs in the world that have to feed of consumerism to survive. that if everyone concentrated on survival, the unemployment rate whould rise so much that a third of working amarica whould not be making even a dollar. technology has replaced so many jobs. and the jobs that run the tech are even going away, as these technologies are also self managing in some places.

this whould require socialism, or pure anarchy(if our tech ever reached star trek level) to accomidate everyone. but alas i dont trust one man to command with the majority nodding yes at everything he says, thats to much power. and i dont like the idea of lazy man gets gifts, but working man is forced to give gifts.