Triple Play (plus one)

[Constantin]

when you outlaw guns the only people with them will be outlaws support your local nra

[phee]

when you outlaw guns the only people with them will be outlaws support your local nra

I love that argument! You can apply it almost everywhere....

If you outlaw crack only crackheads will be outlaws! Legalize crack and support your local crack house.

Or

If you outlaw trees only outlaws will have shade! go to the woods!

Or

If you outlaw killing people only outlaws will kill people.... legalize homicide!

[bean]

I love that argument! You can apply it almost everywhere....

If you outlaw crack only crackheads will be outlaws! Legalize crack and support your local crack house.

Or

If you outlaw trees only outlaws will have shade! go to the woods!

Or

If you outlaw killing people only outlaws will kill people.... legalize homicide!

phee is phantastic!

[Constantin]

here let me put it in another pov say your a criminal and you wanna rob someone so you pull out your gun and rob them. well what if everyone had a gun would you still want to rob them knowing that they and anyone that might just pass by and see you has a gun and can shoot you dead? so you see guns can be good

[phee]

here let me put it in another pov say your a criminal and you wanna rob someone so you pull out your gun and rob them. well what if everyone had a gun would you still want to rob them knowing that they and anyone that might just pass by and see you has a gun and can shoot you dead? so you see guns can be good

I am not talking about taking guns "away" but control would be nice

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafet.../statistics.htm

Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources

Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001

Again control:

According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy"

[Goth Brooks]

I love that argument! You can apply it almost everywhere....

If you outlaw crack only crackheads will be outlaws! Legalize crack and support your local crack house.

Or

If you outlaw trees only outlaws will have shade! go to the woods!

Or

If you outlaw killing people only outlaws will kill people.... legalize homicide!

Not to be too insulting phee, but that was about as retarded as the idiot that said; "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity"

the double entendre of the "only criminals will have guns" statement is this:

1. Criminals would NOT follow a gun control law in the first place, they had guns before the law, and would have it after AND STATISTICS SHOW that crime would then rise astronomically... including RAPE [1]

2. Some citizens would break that law and continue to own a gun for self defense, becoming criminals themselves. And I know damn well that I would be one of them.

[1] I personally think that every time a woman is raped, in a situation where a gun would have definitely stopped it (which happens to be OFTEN); the rapist (when caught) should be allowed to rape a female gun control advocate from the same area... only give her a gun loaded with blanks before being locked in a room with the rapist.

[phee]

Not to be too insulting phee, but that was about as retarded as the idiot that said; "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity"

the double entendre of the "only criminals will have guns" statement is this:

1. Criminals would NOT follow a gun control law in the first place, they had guns before the law, and would have it after AND STATISTICS SHOW that crime would then rise astronomically... including RAPE [1]

2. Some citizens would break that law and continue to own a gun for self defense, becoming criminals themselves. And I know damn well that I would be one of them.

[1] I personally think that every time a woman is raped, in a situation where a gun would have definitely stopped it (which happens to be OFTEN); the rapist (when caught) should be allowed to rape a female gun control advocate from the same area... only give her a gun loaded with blanks before being locked in a room with the rapist.

Statistics can show it in either direction

[Goth Brooks]

Statistics can show it in either direction

please show me statistics where rape has dropped in an area after gun control legislation.

[phee]

please show me statistics where rape has dropped in an area after gun control legislation.

I will admit that while I found several statistics that say that gun control did in fact decrease rape.... the statistics were not from sources that I would consider reliable.

So you may be right about this

[n0Mad]

[1] I personally think that every time a woman is raped, in a situation where a gun would have definitely stopped it (which happens to be OFTEN); the rapist (when caught) should be allowed to rape a female gun control advocate from the same area... only give her a gun loaded with blanks before being locked in a room with the rapist.

Not the video I was looking for, but this one is certainly chilling. My heart is still racing two minutes after finishing watching it.

[Goth Brooks]

... like people who open fire through their door at trick-or-treating families? That the kind of wrong hands we're talking about?

To dredge this back up...

SUMTER, S.C. - An ex-convict who thought he was being robbed gunned down a 12-year-old trick-or-treater, spraying nearly 30 rounds with an assault rifle from inside his home after hearing a knock on the door, police said Saturday.

Patrick emptied his AK-47, shooting at least 29 times through his front door, walls and windows after hearing the knock, Police Chief Patty Patterson said.

Suspect had been robbed previously

He told police he had been robbed and shot in the past year.

Police said they also charged a 19-year-old in his home, Ericka Patrice Pee, with obstruction of justice when she was caught trying to run away after the shooting with $7,500 in cash. Patterson did not give an explanation for the money.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27482694/

This man was a felon, he shouldn't have had any weapon to begin with.

[phee]

To dredge this back up...

This man was a felon, he shouldn't have had any weapon to begin with.

That sounds like you believe in gun control as well...

(and when I say control I DON'T mean take them all away.... I mean control"

[Goth Brooks]

That sounds like you believe in gun control as well...

(and when I say control I DON'T mean take them all away.... I mean control"

He is the violent criminal I've always referenced, the one that citizens need guns to protect themselves from.

The current laws didn't stop him from having an AK 47 illegally, did it?

Felons gave up their rights when they committed their crimes against the people, the state, or the nation.

[phee]

He is the violent criminal I've always referenced, the one that citizens need guns to protect themselves from.

The current laws didn't stop him from having an AK 47 illegally, did it?

Felons gave up their rights when they committed their crimes against the people, the state, or the nation.

So you do believe in control to a point... Not allowing felons to have them for example

[freydis]

So you do believe in control to a point... Not allowing felons to have them for example

.......isnt that how its done already?

[phee]

.......isnt that how its done already?

Yes... you see my point... then.... gun control does not equal all gones are gone

[Goth Brooks]

So you do believe in control to a point... Not allowing felons to have them for example

If you want to put it that way.

I guess it all depends on whether or not someone sees a felon as a citizen.

I see the logic trap, phee. I really don't have an answer for you.

The law allows for people convicted of felonies to have their rights stripped for their offense; I don't see this as being the same thing as gun control laws against law abiding citizens who have no felony convictions.

[phee]

If you want to put it that way.

I guess it all depends on whether or not someone sees a felon as a citizen.

I see the logic trap, phee. I really don't have an answer for you.

The law allows for people convicted of felonies to have their rights stripped for their offense; I don't see this as being the same thing as gun control laws against law abiding citizens who have no felony convictions.

Convicted felons can also vote once there sentences are up... do you agree with this as well?

[Goth Brooks]

Convicted felons can also vote once there sentences are up... do you agree with this as well?

That depends on the state. Some states don't allow this.

AFAIK, people convicted of federal felonies can never vote, or own firearms.

As for the actual question, no I don't agree with felons having the right to vote, bear arms, run for office, or having free speech; unless they've been pardoned by the State/Federal Government.

Some states agree with me, some don't.

[phee]

That depends on the state. Some states don't allow this.

AFAIK, people convicted of federal felonies can never vote, or own firearms.

As for the actual question, no I don't agree with felons having the right to vote, bear arms, run for office, or having free speech; unless they've been pardoned by the State/Federal Government.

Some states agree with me, some don't.

OK...

Just curious.... what do you mean by... "logic trap"? It sounds like something Spock does to Kirk behind closed doors...

[Goth Brooks]

OK...

Just curious.... what do you mean by... "logic trap"? It sounds like something Spock does to Kirk behind closed doors...

I'll explain that in more detail when I get home from work

[phee]

I'll explain that in more detail when I get home from work

Coolness

[eleven]

so..... how about back to topic guys!!! :D

[Msterbeau]

so..... how about back to topic guys!!! :D

What... you want a triple play?

[Goth Brooks]

so..... how about back to topic guys!!! :D

Prop 1 is unconstitutional, no one cares about stem cells, and Obama's a socialist marxist Che Guevara wannabe.

Coolness

IF Government can legally ban felons from their "Inalienable Rights" (which the Bill of Rights are supposed to be), then:

A) They can change it so people who do nothing so much as commit civil infractions/misdemeanors also lose their Rights.

B) They can change the level of punishment for any crime, making pretty much anything a felony; so everyone loses their Rights.

As I said, I believe if someone commits a felony, they should lose their Rights, they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a citizen on the same playing field as the "Citizens" specifically mentioned in the Constitution.

Unfortunately, it's not a clear cut case.

No one said life's fair, eh?