President Barack Obama

[TitsMcGee]

I repeat.... PLEASE KEEP IT NICE...

Don't worry Phee, that's all I'm going to say. I don't feel the need to debate with the less informed.

[asphyxian_doll]

Anyways, go Obama, get us the hell out of iraq, and end it.

...freedom....more like a land grab.....

[phee]

I am glad he won as well,

I am sorry that some people think that the sky is falling now and that the world is ending... IMO though, the "collapse" already happened (to a large degree) and things now have a chance of getting better.

[asphyxian_doll]

Don't worry Phee, that's all I'm going to say. I don't feel the need to debate with the less informed.

I am SOOO misinformed...mmhmmm!

The U.S. Senate knew about the planes before they hit, with enough time to evacuate, you saying thats patriotic?

To allow that to happen?

May have not saved the building, but damn those people would be eating with their families right now.

I AM an adult, a YOUNG one.

save it.

[savageminstrel]

You have got to be shittin me.

I resent you're point, as it isn't valid, but ignorant.

How do you protect a country that is putting you in harms way for oil?

greed?

bigotry?

and call that FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM?

our freedom was FOUGHT FOR OVER 200 YEARS AGO

The only WAR that was fundamentally valid in that right was the Revolutionary war.

durka dur!

well, here I go again.... lol

In my opinion (and this is just my opinion) the last war fought to defend the constitution and the rights it contained was the War of 1812, when Britain tried to take this country back.

Everything else since then was either a land grab, or to enforce authority on people who were trying to find their own ideas of freedom.

[phee]

well, here I go again.... lol

In my opinion (and this is just my opinion) the last war fought to defend the constitution and the rights it contained was the War of 1812, when Britain tried to take this country back.

Everything else since then was either a land grab, or to enforce authority on people who were trying to find their owb idea of freedom.

I do think that WWII was a necessity

[TitsMcGee]

I do think that WWII was a necessity

Just a bit of one, you know with that whole bombing thing and all. *yes I am being sarcastic*

[Rev.Reverence]

You have got to be shittin me.

I resent you're point, as it isn't valid, but ignorant.

How do you protect a country that is putting you in harms way for oil?

greed?

bigotry?

and call that FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM?

our freedom was FOUGHT FOR OVER 200 YEARS AGO

The only WAR that was fundamentally valid in that right was the Revolutionary war.

durka dur!

...yes...that is when it was won...but you seem to forget the WW2...(in which we saved the world)...we were in an isolationist mentality...so shit got out of hand all over the place...but the last straw was that Japan attacked US...so we had to "DO THIS"......& again in 2001 on 9/11 we were totally attacked & in Afganistan, we retaliated (as the TellyBan or ALkAIDA was stationed there as a headquarters){at least that is what we are told}...

The other wars were generally for our "better interest" (not so cool) & some were for the "love of humanity" (with a side of "our better interest")...so I can dig the general gist of your argument...

[asphyxian_doll]

...yes...that is when it was won...but you seem to forget the WW2...(in which we saved the world)...we were in an isolationist mentality...so shit got out of hand all over the place...but the last straw was that Japan attacked US...so we had to "DO THIS"......& again in 2001 on 9/11 we were totally attacked & in Afganistan, we retaliated (as the TellyBan or ALkAIDA was stationed there as a headquarters){at least that is what we are told}...

The other wars were generally for our "better interest" (not so cool) & some were for the "love of humanity" (with a side of "our better interest")...so I can dig the general gist of your argument...

Yes exactly.

All the FACTS are there, it is the naive behavior and low emotional quality of so many Americans that SCARES ME SHITLESS.

They ignore the facts that make them uncomfortable, that show them maybe they CAN'T trust our government, that instills FEAR into their hearts.

And instead go on this tangent about patriotism, and freedom, with no real knowledge of what real patriotism and freedom actually is, because they are afraid to acknowledge the truth,

the truth being, our government in itself is non patriotic, and is taking away our freedoms as we speak(or write)

by catering to cooperate higher ups as if they were the kings and queens of BRITAIN!

[Scales]

I disagree with Obama's economic policies. But if his economic approach fails, maybe he'll consider something more Libertarian. I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries because he was intelligent and understood the economy. Bottom line, the U.S. can't flourish and be independent without minimal government and a working banking system.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/ap_on_...ions_world_view

Skepticism, however, was high in the Muslim world.

Dang, there's a first time for everything.

[savageminstrel]

I do think that WWII was a necessity

Maybe, although it is probably moot... as is most issues involving war. But I don't believe it was necessarily about defending freedom... although that is what we were told. Eastern Europe ended up in the iron grip of the communist dictators of the USSR. In a lot of peoples' minds, their freedom was sacrificed for the "greater good"... just seems like they were left out in the cold, to gain the alliance we felt we needed to defeat Hitler. From the perspective of E. Europe, it was a dismal failure, they traded one dictator for another.

again, just my opinion

[n0Mad]

"According to the Department of Energy, the top oil exporters to the United States in May 2008 were, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria (in order from most exports to least)." (www.eia.doe.gov)

The reason we've been in Iraq for over half a decade has very little to do with oil. You want to know why we're there, talk to a soldier who is there and ask them what they are willing to die for. I don't get my information about the war from the media or hearsay; I get my info from a US Army Lieutenant Colonel with top secret clearance at the Pentagon. Of course, he's not allowed to tell me the top secret stuff but he knows enough to know it's not about oil.

[TitsMcGee]

"According to the Department of Energy, the top oil exporters to the United States in May 2008 were, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria (in order from most exports to least)." (www.eia.doe.gov)

The reason we've been in Iraq for over half a decade has very little to do with oil. You want to know why we're there, talk to a soldier who is there and ask them what they are willing to die for. I don't get my information about the war from the media or hearsay; I get my info from a US Army Lieutenant Colonel with top secret clearance at the Pentagon. Of course, he's not allowed to tell me the top secret stuff but he knows enough to know it's not about oil.

I get told the same thing from a Marine Sargent...he's my brother.

[n0Mad]

I get told the same thing from a Marine Sargent...he's my brother.

But, you know, the military is so brainwashed anyway that they just feed us the government spin hiding the real truth that the media is fighting so hard to expose. </sarcasm>

[Rev.Reverence]

But, you know, the military is so brainwashed anyway that they just feed us the government spin hiding the real truth that the media is fighting so hard to expose. </sarcasm>

*clutching tin-hat to head*

[n0Mad]

*clutching tin-hat to head*

I think the tin is too thin. I'm going to start making my hat out of lead. Oh, wait ... here's a toy from China. I'll just use that.

[Rev.Reverence]

I think the tin is too thin. I'm going to start making my hat out of lead. Oh, wait ... here's a toy from China. I'll just use that.

[phee]

*This maybe another minor threadjack*

You know that they did a study and tin actually minorly amplifies wave frequencies... so a "tin hat" would actually make mind control easier in a very small way

[Msterbeau]

I do think that WWII was a necessity

True.. But beither Japan nor Germany could realistically hope to invade mainland US. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor only to keep us from using our ships to interfere with their plans in the far east. Germany was an ocean away and mired in Russia by the time we got into it.

[Msterbeau]

I get told the same thing from a Marine Sargent...he's my brother.

No disrespect your brother nor Spooks friend, but I doubt either of them has a a direct line to the White House or the joint chiefs office. I doubt anyone much below that REALLY knows.

And Spook. Your statistic about oil was for May of THIS year. Show me a chart over the past 25 years. No one's been getting a ton of oil out of Iraq because of embargoes for a while now. Doesn't mean the oil isn't available to the one sitting on it and in authority.

[Goth Brooks]

Doesn't mean the oil isn't available to the one sitting on it and in authority.

Which would be us... and no we're not.

[freydis]

What do you mean HOW DARE YOU?!

This country has gone to shit, and I am not PROUD of that fact.

I wouldn't salute the flag EITHER!

Sure it STOOD for freedom of speech, immigration and others, but is that in itself respected?

NO!

I let go of that a long time ago,

I let go of the thought that this country and its government had any amount of respect for its own flag when I realized we were FUCKED, and a police state was too close to comfort.

So you're saying it's acceptable for a person who is wanting to become a leader of a nation not to show respect to its own flag?

Also..... you got angry at being called immature, but you're doing little to dissuade others of the opinion. Argue rationally instead of falling back on telling people theyre 'ignorant'.

[n0Mad]

And Spook. Your statistic about oil was for May of THIS year. Show me a chart over the past 25 years. No one's been getting a ton of oil out of Iraq because of embargoes for a while now.

And the chart shows that we can do just fine without Iraqi oil. Do you think having the military deployed for half a decade is worth any amount of oil we can get from Iraq? Between the Navy transports, tanks, supply vehicles, and aircraft, we are probably burning more oil being there than we're shipping out. Trading in a ratty old dollar bill for three shiny new quarters is not good economics. Oil might be a subsequent benefit but it is definitely not the reason.

[Rev.Reverence]

So you're saying it's acceptable for a person who is wanting to become a leader of a nation not to show respect to its own flag?

That is like saying, "If you don't respect the Star of David...then you do not Love G*D"...which is silly...you are confusing a SYMBOL...with a CONCEPT (of naming some land between here & there America.) but you all mistakenly take a GREAT CONCEPT & think of it as a proper noun...something that is...& well...it simply is not. (& I love being there)(MOSTLY)

[phee]

That is like saying, "If you don't respect the Star of David...then you do not Love G*D"...which is silly...you are confusing a SYMBOL...with a CONCEPT (of naming some land between here & there America.) but you all mistakenly take a GREAT CONCEPT & think of it as a proper noun...something that is...& well...it simply is not. (& I love being there)(MOSTLY)

I can see this perspective