President Barack Obama

[n0Mad]

so...... its not ok to bitch and moan about someone getting elected you didnt like and didnt vote for, but its ok to rant about the current president?

Hey, I'm the one who started the George W. Bush appreciation thread, remember? I think he deserves recognition for the good things he has done.

Why has everything become centered around gun control? Has Obama mentioned anything about taking away guns?

Yes, several times. And his voting record shows us such as well. Need direct quotes? Give me a couple days or Gaf a couple of minutes.

[Rev.Reverence]

oh, hell.

im not talking about idolatry. or even slavish obeisance.

just a little respect for your symbol of office, of the country the position is supposed to be in charge of. If you think so little of the symbol of the country youre in charge of, what are you saying to your people? like it or not, the minds of the people pick up on symbolism. You have to mind what you say and do if youre in the public eye. Thats a fact of politics.

You are saying that you have a conviction...your mind is made up...& YOU WILL STAY THE COURSE!!!

(That MAY be why he won)I don't know(I could not vote for him)

[freydis]

The point being... no one... not even a potential leader, should have to stand by a symbol if that symbol has COME to represent something they don't agree with.... The American Flag, for example... no matter what it was, or will become... if it stood for raping puppies and and skinning babies, I would not stand for it.... however if I became leader and therefore restored its good associations, that is different

The American flag is a symbol of the country, as the Canadian flag is a symbol of Canada. I'm sure if Stephen Harper refused to pay any respect to the Canadian flag, the Canadians wouldnt be too pleased.

Honestly, though? I just looked up the whole Obama flag thing on snopes.com, and he wasnt making any grand symbolic statements not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem.

He was spacin out.

i do however still take exception to the fact that the dude swore by his voting record during the campaign, when most of his votes were "present". Lame.

[Rev.Reverence]

The point being... no one... not even a potential leader, should have to stand by a symbol if that symbol has COME to represent something they don't agree with.... The American Flag, for example... no matter what it was, or will become... if it stood for raping puppies and and skinning babies, I would not stand for it.... however if I became leader and therefore restored its good associations, that is different

*points at phee*

On my staff for my campaign...

..& I can only go on to say that it is in fact more important for an elected official to be held to a HIGHER MORAL standard...

...to Judge a man...you judge his words by his actions...& his actions by his words...

[bean]

I *heart* Bean water... a lot... thank you miss

I pheel warm political fuzzies

[bean]

Can I hug you? I totally agree.

Obama was not my first choice but he is who America has accepted so like it or not, we're stuck with him for four years. So, you can bitch, whine, and moan about it, or you can accept what has passed and give him the best support you can so he can accomplish the most difficult job in the world. He was elected by just over half the nation but represents us all. As long as he remembers that, he deserves our support. If you don't like it, congressional elections are in two years so get out there and vote.

Yes you may.

I would also agree with your statement if McCain had won.

[Rev.Reverence]

I fell warm political fuzzies

...that's probably just gas...

[bean]

...that's probably just gas...

I did have some bean dip earlier

[phee]

I did have some bean dip earlier

That sounds like the Eternal would have enjoyed said dip!

[bean]

That sounds like the Eternal would have enjoyed said dip!

indeed

[asphyxian_doll]

No disrespect your brother nor Spooks friend, but I doubt either of them has a a direct line to the White House or the joint chiefs office. I doubt anyone much below that REALLY knows.

And Spook. Your statistic about oil was for May of THIS year. Show me a chart over the past 25 years. No one's been getting a ton of oil out of Iraq because of embargoes for a while now. Doesn't mean the oil isn't available to the one sitting on it and in authority.

Thank you....Its not just oil, It is also a land grab...but my original point is,

It is clearly NOT FOR FREEDOM.

[asphyxian_doll]

So you're saying it's acceptable for a person who is wanting to become a leader of a nation not to show respect to its own flag?

Also..... you got angry at being called immature, but you're doing little to dissuade others of the opinion. Argue rationally instead of falling back on telling people theyre 'ignorant'.

I am arguing rationally, just passionately as well.

And yes, I am saying it is acceptable for my own reasons.

This nation needs change, DRASTIC change.

Its a gesture I respect.

[Goth Brooks]

(& I prefer the ORIGINAL FLAG!)

Go check your history books.

This was the original flag flown by the colonial militias against the british.

[phee]

Go check your history books.

This was the original flag flown by the colonial militias against the british.

That one makes me think of Headwreck and Restless Oblivion..... is good

[asphyxian_doll]

No, it would be a more accurate analogy that you would expect someone wanting to be the pope to respect the cross. When the symbol IS a significant symbol of office, there are certain behaviours you expect, and deem appropriate or inappropriate.

And you of all people I would think could appreciate the significance of symbols. Not just materially or spiritually, but psychologically, too.

I just find this a closed minded way of saying "this is how it should be, change of meaning and concept of a symbol is unacceptable, the meaning to these symbols should always be respected and left the same"

Look, I do not appreciate the significance of symbols.

And spiritually, symbols mean "0"....nothing, in my opinion.

I do not look at the cross and see Christianity, or see the star of David and see Judaism.

Christianity is defined by its practice....not symbol.

To respect a SYMBOL is to give it meaning beyond its purpose (a reminder)

and we all know, its purpose can be interpreted in many different ways

so...the American flag, reminds me of freedom, and yet tyranny....

Freedom was fought for and won, and tyranny has grown and flourished in this country in the guise of patriotism.

I see physical symbols hindering.

[Goth Brooks]

P. fucking S.

Why has everything become centered around gun control? Has Obama mentioned anything about taking away guns? Did I miss the speech were Obama said:

"As President, I plan to take away everyone's guns?"

I mean COME ON. As President, Obama will have a hell of a lot more important things to worry about, like, oh, I don't know, the economy, our troops in Iraq, health care, oh yeah, and THE ECONOMY.

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.

When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

[Goth Brooks]

KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.

OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

FUCK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT-ELECT.

[asphyxian_doll]

Disclaimer: This is me posting, not the eternal. While it is an eternal-length post (on a light day), it is written in my style, not his, mmkay?

This will likely piss off some of you. That's your choice, but I've HAD IT with this shit.

This election has really showed people's true colors, and it makes me sick. It makes me horribly ashamed to call myself an American. I like living in this country because of all the different people I come into contact with daily. People of different races, ethnicities, sexual orientations, religions, etc. Yes, some of them I don't particularly care for, but that doesn't mean they need to be subjected to insults and slander.

This election has brought out some really racist, bigoted, ignorant behavior and I am so fucking sick of it.

-Obama is not a muslim. Stop watching Fox news, ok?

-The world is not going to end because Obama was elected, ok?

-Obama is going to have to clean up the huge fucking mess Dubya left behind, ok?

-Obama is not going to raise taxes unless you make more than $250,000 a year. In that case, I'm sorry, but you can afford to pay a bit more.

-Obama is not going to take your guns away. Chill the fuck out. Seriously. Go shoot something, it'll make you feel better.

I'm sorry that I give a shit about my fellow man and want money to go towards programs that help those that are less fortunate - another "sin" of the democrats: giving 2 shits about our fellow man.

Apparently, helping those who are less fortunate is "socialist." I thought that was just being a decent human being. My bad.

For those who do not want funding for programs that help others:

I hope you get laid off and can't find a job in this shit-hole economy. Then I hope your house gets foreclosed on because you can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job. Then I hope you get sick and can't afford to go to the doctor to get a prescription for a $10 antibiotic that would help you feel better within 24 hours. Then maybe you'll know what it's like to need help.

Not everyone that receives assistance is some lazy substance abuser. Bad shit happens to good people, and those people need help.

Do I think that some people abuse the system? You bet your ass I do, but that doesn't mean that these programs should be discontinued, or lose funding.

Stem cells (oh snap, hot button issue) are NOT taken from aborted fetuses. Again, stop watching Fox News. They are taken from embryos that are within a certain age that were going to be discarded anyway at fertility clinics. Stem Cell research could end up helping many people.

Prop 8 in California: I'm sad that it passed. I hope that the day comes when gays will finally be accepted. There was a time when people of different races were banned from marrying each other. Some even said that such a combination was "against g-d." People say that about being gay, that it's "against g-d." I view that sort of thinking as intolerant and ignorant, and it deeply saddens me.

What has a gay person ever done to you? I can tell you that straight people have done more harm to me than any gay person ever has.

We are taking a step backwards, and it frightens me.

While I have some very serious issues with McCain and his choice for VP, I will say that he gave a very good concession speech last night. He was very diplomatic and encouraged his supporters to now support their President elect.

Now that this is over, can we find it in ourselves to be decent human beings and treat each other with respect, instead of dog shit that we find on the bottom of our shoe? Is that possible?

*applauds*

Its possible...

[Rev.Reverence]

Go check your history books.

This was the original flag flown by the colonial militias against the british.

WOW...way to split hairs.....I did look it up...

History of the American Flag

According to popular legend, the first American flag was made by Betsy Ross, a Philadelphia seamstress who was acquainted with George Washington, leader of the Continental Army, and other influential Philadelphians. In May 1776, so the story goes, General Washington and two representatives from the Continental Congress visited Ross at her upholstery shop and showed her a rough design of the flag. Although Washington initially favored using a star with six points, Ross advocated for a five-pointed star, which could be cut with just one quick snip of the scissors, and the gentlemen were won over.

Unfortunately, historians have never been able to verify this charming version of events, although it is known that Ross made flags for the navy of Pennsylvania. The story of Washington's visit to the flagmaker became popular about the time of the country's first centennial, after William Canby, a grandson of Ross, told about her role in shaping U.S. history in a speech given at the Philadelphia Historical Society in March 1870.

What is known is that the first unofficial national flag, called the Grand Union Flag or the Continental Colours, was raised at the behest of General Washington near his headquarters outside Boston, Mass., on Jan. 1, 1776. The flag had 13 alternating red and white horizontal stripes and the British Union Flag (a predecessor of the Union Jack) in the canton. Another early flag had a rattlesnake and the motto “Don't Tread on Me.”

The first official national flag, also known as the Stars and Stripes, was approved by the Continental Congress on June 14, 1777. The blue canton contained 13 stars, representing the original 13 colonies, but the layout varied. Although nobody knows for sure who designed the flag, it may have been Continental Congress member Francis Hopkinson.

OOPS-DEE...I guess we are both wrong.

Point is...I never really liked the current flag.

[phee]

Very related to the discussion: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_election_an_american_abroad

[Goth Brooks]

Disclaimer: This is me posting, not the eternal. While it is an eternal-length post (on a light day), it is written in my style, not his, mmkay?

This will likely piss off some of you. That's your choice, but I've HAD IT with this shit.

This election has really showed people's true colors, and it makes me sick. It makes me horribly ashamed to call myself an American. I like living in this country because of all the different people I come into contact with daily. People of different races, ethnicities, sexual orientations, religions, etc. Yes, some of them I don't particularly care for, but that doesn't mean they need to be subjected to insults and slander.

This election has brought out some really racist, bigoted, ignorant behavior and I am so fucking sick of it.

-Obama is not a muslim. Stop watching Fox news, ok?

His father is muslim, some people are dumb enough to give the religion of the father to the son... get over it.

-The world is not going to end because Obama was elected, ok?

-Obama is going to have to clean up the huge fucking mess Dubya left behind, ok?

I'm worried about the country, the world can do for themselves. And I agree, he has a problem ahead of him.

-Obama is not going to raise taxes unless you make more than $250,000 a year. In that case, I'm sorry, but you can afford to pay a bit more.

First off, that number gets lower and lower depending on who you talk to. He went from 250 to 200, then Biden was talking about 100k-150.

And being able to afford to pay more isn't the point, they shouldn't HAVE to.

-Obama is not going to take your guns away. Chill the fuck out. Seriously. Go shoot something, it'll make you feel better.

You're right he isn't. He'll try, but it won't happen.

I'm sorry that I give a shit about my fellow man and want money to go towards programs that help those that are less fortunate - another "sin" of the democrats: giving 2 shits about our fellow man.

Apparently, helping those who are less fortunate is "socialist." I thought that was just being a decent human being. My bad.

When you do it because it's the right thing to do, and because you want to, THAT is being a decent human being.

When you do it because you are FORCED to 'spread the wealth' through force of government, that is socialism/communism.

For those who do not want funding for programs that help others:

I hope you get laid off and can't find a job in this shit-hole economy. Then I hope your house gets foreclosed on because you can't pay your mortgage because you don't have a job. Then I hope you get sick and can't afford to go to the doctor to get a prescription for a $10 antibiotic that would help you feel better within 24 hours. Then maybe you'll know what it's like to need help.

I'm already in those situations and I still don't want funding for those programs.

NOBODY has control over their bodies, and medical issues are completely irrelevant. EVERYBODY has control over their education... if you refused to get the education that is publicly available, and to go on from there to college and employment, that is your own fucking fault.

I'm tired of high school drop outs, GED holders, and (gag) liberal art students with worthless degrees whining about the government not doing enough for them.

Get a fucking degree that will give you a job, and shut the fuck up.

Not everyone that receives assistance is some lazy substance abuser. Bad shit happens to good people, and those people need help.

Isn't it just a shame that the MAJORITY are lazy substance abusers with 20 kids, that are milking the system for all it's worth. Who cares about actually putting in 40-60hrs a week when Unca Sam gon' hook me up yo.

Do I think that some people abuse the system? You bet your ass I do, but that doesn't mean that these programs should be discontinued, or lose funding.

So you want to continue funding programs that have proven to be cost ineffective? Was that your opinion on the DEA's War on Drugs? How about the Iraq war?

I've edited out those things I do agree with you on.

[Goth Brooks]

Very related to the discussion: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_election_an_american_abroad

"Don't kiss me, I voted for the old white guy."

Should get me one of those!

[Rev.Reverence]

Very related to the discussion: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_election_an_american_abroad

"Will you wear your Stars and Stripes shirt now? You're allowed!" he told me.

...but a Frenchman said it...& they are ALL pussies...

*sarcasm*

Good article Phee...I doubt that the WHOLE WORLD is "IN ON IT"...it gives an additional speck of hope in the bleakness of it all.

*loosens chinstrap on tin-hat (just a bit)*

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I'm tired of high school drop outs, GED holders, and (gag) liberal art students with worthless degrees whining about the government not doing enough for them.

Get a fucking degree that will give you a job, and shut the fuck up.

[TitsMcGee]

His father is muslim, some people are dumb enough to give the religion of the father to the son... get over it.

I'm worried about the country, the world can do for themselves. And I agree, he has a problem ahead of him.

First off, that number gets lower and lower depending on who you talk to. He went from 250 to 200, then Biden was talking about 100k-150.

And being able to afford to pay more isn't the point, they shouldn't HAVE to.

You're right he isn't. He'll try, but it won't happen.

When you do it because it's the right thing to do, and because you want to, THAT is being a decent human being.

When you do it because you are FORCED to 'spread the wealth' through force of government, that is socialism/communism.

I'm already in those situations and I still don't want funding for those programs.

NOBODY has control over their bodies, and medical issues are completely irrelevant. EVERYBODY has control over their education... if you refused to get the education that is publicly available, and to go on from there to college and employment, that is your own fucking fault.

I'm tired of high school drop outs, GED holders, and (gag) liberal art students with worthless degrees whining about the government not doing enough for them.

Get a fucking degree that will give you a job, and shut the fuck up.

Isn't it just a shame that the MAJORITY are lazy substance abusers with 20 kids, that are milking the system for all it's worth. Who cares about actually putting in 40-60hrs a week when Unca Sam gon' hook me up yo.

So you want to continue funding programs that have proven to be cost ineffective? Was that your opinion on the DEA's War on Drugs? How about the Iraq war?

I've edited out those things I do agree with you on.

+10 zillion