The smoking bans

[candyman]

I smoke and I know its not good but i'm not gonna quit so don't say shit. I personaly have no problem with the government wanting a few more smoke free areas. My only question is why do ALL the bars have to be smoke free? Why was there no choice for bar owners in any of the areas where the bans were put in place? I'm from Wisconsion where the ban is slowly creeping along the state and although restaurants are still doing ok the bars are really suffering. A few have closed and the rest had to cut staff. The bars that are still open also have seen a massive drop in the number of patrons and also the amount of money the patrons spend. I often walk on State St. in Madison, WI which is a big college town and on a friday night most of the bars look barely half full. I remember the days when there were lines of people waiting to go into the bars but now it seems like they are just dying out.

I have also found that many of the people that are pro-smoking bans or anti-smokers are very rude and will tend to throw hard objects at me and other smokers. Is it just me or are these bans way too harsh and are their supporters taking the asshole factor to the max?

[TitsMcGee]

Thats a fact people forget, smoking bans hurt businesses. And what worse about it is that the people for said ban don't care.

[Msterbeau]

*Waits for the inevitable fight between smokers and non-smokers*

Before you blame the drop in patrons on the bans.... how's the economy up there? If college kids have significantly less disposable income, guess what happens?

[Msterbeau]

Thats a fact people forget, smoking bans hurt businesses. And what worse about it is that the people for said ban don't care.

That's not a fact. I've seen groups/statistics that claim both ways. Also.. Like I said above, the economic conditions in the area can play a big part in overall business and that needs to be compared too.

If the bans are uniform and state wide, I don't see how it's going to significantly effect things. People will still want to go out and meet people, dance and drink. For every smoker they lose I can see them gaining a non smoker that stayed away.

[Bpage]

Here's a little chime in from California where we have had a smoking ban since I moved out here 10 years ago!

It doesn't hurt business, it's a statewide ban, the nearest smoking area is Nevada. If you want to smoke than you hang out with all the other smokers in the "petting zoo" outside.

Our economy nor our bars and restaurants are certainly not hurting.

......and it's a lot easier to quit when you can go to a bar and not have everybody smoking around you.

[Brenda Starrr]

That's not a fact. I've seen groups/statistics that claim both ways. Also.. Like I said above, the economic conditions in the area can play a big part in overall business and that needs to be compared too.

If the bans are uniform and state wide, I don't see how it's going to significantly effect things. People will still want to go out and meet people, dance and drink. For every smoker they lose I can see them gaining a non smoker that stayed away.

THAT'S fact.

The smoking ban went into effect in MD several years ago. Bars and restaurants are now BUSIER. Far more non-smokers are going out. That's a good thing. And I'm going to tell you that I'm a former smoker. I'm also going to tell you that I don't want to die. I watched my Dad die just a few months ago from lung cancer and emphysema.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE OR SUFFER THAT KIND OF DEATH.

The smoking ban NEEDS to go into effect in MI and everywhere else. If smokers want one THAT badly, they can go outside. Or, here's an idea: quit.

[jynxxxedangel]

All I have to say, is the bars will lose my business (and I have been known to spend a lot of money, and I am a fabulous tipper). I'll just go to the lodges and motorcycle clubhouses to drop my loot. Not so many rules and tobacco nazis in those places.

I'm merely accelerating the inevitable-- and I will continue to enjoy my ciggies, gars, and cocktails together, because they contribute to my "pursuit of happiness"-- which is mentioned in an old, obviously outdated document which many people have forgotten about.

If anyone wants to know some cool places where they can drink and smoke if the ban happens, let me know-- and I will enlighten you.

[phee]

Yeah... no need for too much detail here...

If you want to smoke then smoke... just as long as I am not forced to be around it... If I come to your house and you smoke.... that is my problem, if I am in public or you are in my house and you smoke... that is your problem.

I think it should be up to the business to decide

[TitsMcGee]

But is it right to force a business owner to go smoke free if they do no want to? Because that seems to happen a lot from what I've seen. I have no problem with regulations on smoking IF they give bar/restaurant owners a choice if they want to be smoke free or not.

[TheGimp]

Yeah... no need for too much detail here...

If you want to smoke then smoke... just as long as I am not forced to be around it... If I come to your house and you smoke.... that is my problem, if I am in public or you are in my house and you smoke... that is your problem.

I think it should be up to the business to decide

i agree with phee i say if the ban gose into effect let the bar eattery hotel motel w/e ext ext decide if they see a drop in buisness cuz they realized it sucks having non smokin then put it back w/e iam trying to actually quit smokin but when iam a non smoker finially its not ganna bother me to be around it...

[Rev.Reverence]

Yeah... no need for too much detail here...

If you want to smoke then smoke... just as long as I am not forced to be around it... If I come to your house and you smoke.... that is my problem, if I am in public or you are in my house and you smoke... that is your problem.

I think it should be up to the business to decide

DeJaVu

[Rev.Reverence]

All I have to say, is the bars will lose my business (and I have been known to spend a lot of money, and I am a fabulous tipper). I'll just go to the lodges and motorcycle clubhouses to drop my loot. Not so many rules and tobacco nazis in those places.

I'm merely accelerating the inevitable-- and I will continue to enjoy my ciggies, gars, and cocktails together, because they contribute to my "pursuit of happiness"-- which is mentioned in an old, obviously outdated document which many people have forgotten about.

If anyone wants to know some cool places where they can drink and smoke if the ban happens, let me know-- and I will enlighten you.

By the way...I heard about this in the Summer...(remember the 3 day argument...erm...debate)...

But...when/where did we read about this recently?

I don't read the papers & what not...(I'm not allowed){too depressing}

[candyman]

*Waits for the inevitable fight between smokers and non-smokers*

Before you blame the drop in patrons on the bans.... how's the economy up there? If college kids have significantly less disposable income, guess what happens?

The economy in Wisonsin before, during, and after the ban has been the same. The economy was actually on the rise before the ban and then leveled out. The study was done by the University of Wisconsin and they did the study on individual markes like automotive, food industry, etc. One thing that was discovered, but too late, was the the "independent" company that has been reporting a healthy bar and restaurant scene included some place that shouldn't have counted which made the report look good. They included places like Mcdonalds, Burger King, Subway, and all of those other chain restaurants that haven't had smoking in them for years. Another bad move was when the govenor of Wisonsin went on TV and proudly reported that over 64% of Wisconsin citizens said that they don't want smoking in public places in a recent poll. Now, I am by no means a popular guy, lots of people actually hate me and i spend most of my time alone. Hmm, too much, but anyways my friends and I branched out and asked people we knew or people that came into our workplace if they had taken part in this survey. We did not get a single "yes" from anyone. We guessed that, total, we asked about 250 people give or take a few but out of all those people at least one should have taken part if this was a legitimate survey.

I did a report on this subject and personally interviewed bar owners, workers, and patrons and oh boy were they not happy. I couldn't include alot of statements because they were so vulgar. Almost all the owners and workers reported some sort of drop in revenue or pay along with cutting hours and closing that bars earlier. Madison is a huge college town and bars should never, ever close early in a college town. They should also not have to close because they can't afford to stay open. Most of the patrons were obviously college students and they most common reply that I got was "its really lame now man".

I look at alcohol like these anti-smokers look at cigarettes. Its a drug and a poison. It has short and long term effects just like cigarettes and alot of them are more obvious and horrible than those of cigarettes. Smoking while driving PREVENTS me from hitting people. I have seen too many fights, too many abusive significant others, too many accidents, etc. to say that cigarettes are any worse than alcohol. The ban pushers say that they are doing this for health reasons so why does alcohol get special treatment? I personally hate the stuff unless its a 35 year old bottle of single malt scotch but I would never have the audacity to think that I could tell people that it is wrong, it isn't, and would never dream of banning the stuff. I feel horrible because even on this issue I sit on the fence, just like every other, and get to see that one side is taking things way too far. I feel powerless and angry because it is a huge injustice for people and the government to impose bans and laws with a false front of protection and safety leading the way.

[candyman]

By the way...I heard about this in the Summer...(remember the 3 day argument...erm...debate)...

But...when/where did we read about this recently?

I don't read the papers & what not...(I'm not allowed){too depressing}

Although I tend to dislike politicians and their slaves, sorry pages, I happen to know some people who are in the loop. They know how I feel about issues like abortion, smoking bans, the green movement, etc. and like to keep me informed. The most disturbing news that I got was that rumors are spreading to ban any smoking in public and make in and offence that would be punishible with a hefty fine and or prison time for repeat offenders. I already payed a $150 tickets for smoking close than 20 from a building, which was abandoned, and I felt at the time that was rediculous.

The anti-ban group in Wisonsin is actually led by non-smokers and was started by non-smokers. They don't like smoking or its effects but they still fight against the ban. Ask yourself why they would do that. The government is worried about more than our health here. There is something about the firmness and swiftness of these bans that is just unsettling. The government doesn't just do what its people asks all the time, especially not this efficiently.

[Msterbeau]

The economy in Wisonsin before, during, and after the ban has been the same. The economy was actually on the rise before the ban and then leveled out. The study was done by the University of Wisconsin and they did the study on individual markes like automotive, food industry, etc. One thing that was discovered, but too late, was the the "independent" company that has been reporting a healthy bar and restaurant scene included some place that shouldn't have counted which made the report look good. They included places like Mcdonalds, Burger King, Subway, and all of those other chain restaurants that haven't had smoking in them for years. Another bad move was when the govenor of Wisonsin went on TV and proudly reported that over 64% of Wisconsin citizens said that they don't want smoking in public places in a recent poll. Now, I am by no means a popular guy, lots of people actually hate me and i spend most of my time alone. Hmm, too much, but anyways my friends and I branched out and asked people we knew or people that came into our workplace if they had taken part in this survey. We did not get a single "yes" from anyone. We guessed that, total, we asked about 250 people give or take a few but out of all those people at least one should have taken part if this was a legitimate survey.

I did a report on this subject and personally interviewed bar owners, workers, and patrons and oh boy were they not happy. I couldn't include alot of statements because they were so vulgar. Almost all the owners and workers reported some sort of drop in revenue or pay along with cutting hours and closing that bars earlier. Madison is a huge college town and bars should never, ever close early in a college town. They should also not have to close because they can't afford to stay open. Most of the patrons were obviously college students and they most common reply that I got was "its really lame now man".

I look at alcohol like these anti-smokers look at cigarettes. Its a drug and a poison. It has short and long term effects just like cigarettes and alot of them are more obvious and horrible than those of cigarettes. Smoking while driving PREVENTS me from hitting people. I have seen too many fights, too many abusive significant others, too many accidents, etc. to say that cigarettes are any worse than alcohol. The ban pushers say that they are doing this for health reasons so why does alcohol get special treatment? I personally hate the stuff unless its a 35 year old bottle of single malt scotch but I would never have the audacity to think that I could tell people that it is wrong, it isn't, and would never dream of banning the stuff. I feel horrible because even on this issue I sit on the fence, just like every other, and get to see that one side is taking things way too far. I feel powerless and angry because it is a huge injustice for people and the government to impose bans and laws with a false front of protection and safety leading the way.

When you drink.. it doesn't go in my mouth too. Big difference.

[candyman]

When you drink.. it doesn't go in my mouth too. Big difference.

No, but many fists, feet, and various other objects have. Two cracked ribs and i had to foot the bill. There were 39 deaths and many more severe injuries in just this last year at our local high school. My uncle can't do anything but blink because of an accident that threw him from his bike when the drunks hit him. People lose organs and then just go and get a brank new one that they really don't deserve at all, and then they drown that one too. The police that to waste their time and our money chasing after and taking care of drunks when they could be doing something useful. How many cops episodes have drunk people in them? How many of those episodes have a drunk person causing horrible damage to both people and property?

Alcohol is no better that cigarettes and in some cases can be worse. Sometimes the truth hurts. I already accept the effects of the cigarettes I smoke. I just wish they would kill me faster sometimes.

Oh and not to be mean or anything but your little comment tells me that you really didn't read all that I wrote or think it over for very long.

[Msterbeau]

No, but many fists, feet, and various other objects have. Two cracked ribs and i had to foot the bill. There were 39 deaths and many more severe injuries in just this last year at our local high school. My uncle can't do anything but blink because of an accident that threw him from his bike when the drunks hit him. People lose organs and then just go and get a brank new one that they really don't deserve at all, and then they drown that one too. The police that to waste their time and our money chasing after and taking care of drunks when they could be doing something useful. How many cops episodes have drunk people in them? How many of those episodes have a drunk person causing horrible damage to both people and property?

Alcohol is no better that cigarettes and in some cases can be worse. Sometimes the truth hurts. I already accept the effects of the cigarettes I smoke. I just wish they would kill me faster sometimes.

Oh and not to be mean or anything but your little comment tells me that you really didn't read all that I wrote or think it over for very long.

I read it. But your analogy stinks so I commented on that. The effects of alcohol are indirect and are the result of poor behavior and personal issues/stupidity being compounded by the effects. It's like saying the gun did the crime. Your smoke goes directly in my nostril and affects my lungs directly.

[candyman]

I read it. But your analogy stinks so I commented on that. The effects of alcohol are indirect and are the result of poor behavior and personal issues/stupidity being compounded by the effects. It's like saying the gun did the crime. Your smoke goes directly in my nostril and affects my lungs directly.

That is still no reason for alcohol to be considered any better than cigarettes. It still has effects on people who drink it and those who suffer at the hands of abusers.

All I am trying to say is that both cigarettes and alcohol are bad things to have in public if you are looking at it as a health issue for both those who partake and those who don't. Both waste money, both have first and second-hand effects, both are mind altering substances. They just both do it in different ways.

I would go on but if you will excuse me there are crashing and screaming noises coming from down the hall where people are drinking and our floor can't take any more penalties. However I do look foreward to cleaning up the vomit in front of my door along with all the cans and bottle strewn on the floor and outside.