Auto Bailout Fails

[Goth Brooks]

The full roll call of votes:

Democrats Yes

Akaka, Hawaii; Bayh, Ind.; Bingaman, N.M.; Boxer, Calif.; Brown, Ohio; Byrd, W.Va.; Cantwell, Wash.; Cardin, Md.; Carper, Del.; Casey, Pa.; Clinton, N.Y.; Conrad, N.D.; Dodd, Conn.; Dorgan, N.D.; Durbin, Ill.; Feingold, Wis.; Feinstein, Calif.; Harkin, Iowa; Inouye, Hawaii; Johnson, S.D.; Klobuchar, Minn.; Kohl, Wis.; Landrieu, La.; Lautenberg, N.J.; Leahy, Vt.; Levin, Mich.; McCaskill, Mo.; Menendez, N.J.; Mikulski, Md.; Murray, Wash.; Nelson, Fla.; Nelson, Neb.; Pryor, Ark.; Reed, R.I.; Rockefeller, W.Va.; Salazar, Colo.; Schumer, N.Y.; Stabenow, Mich.; Webb, Va.; Whitehouse, R.I.

Democrats No

Baucus, Mont.; Lincoln, Ark.; Reid, Nev.; Tester, Mont.

Democrats Not Voting

Biden, Del.; Kennedy, Mass.; Kerry, Mass.; Wyden, Ore.

Republicans Yes

Bond, Mo.; Brownback, Kan.; Collins, Maine; Dole, N.C.; Domenici, N.M.; Lugar, Ind.; Snowe, Maine; Specter, Pa.; Voinovich, Ohio; Warner, Va.

Republicans No

Allard, Colo.; Barrasso, Wyo.; Bennett, Utah; Bunning, Ky.; Burr, N.C.; Chambliss, Ga.; Coburn, Okla.; Cochran, Miss.; Coleman, Minn.; Corker, Tenn.; Crapo, Idaho; DeMint, S.C.; Ensign, Nev.; Enzi, Wyo.; Grassley, Iowa; Gregg, N.H.; Hatch, Utah; Hutchison, Texas; Inhofe, Okla.; Isakson, Ga.; Kyl, Ariz.; Martinez, Fla.; McCain, Ariz.; McConnell, Ky.; Murkowski, Alaska; Roberts, Kan.; Sessions, Ala.; Shelby, Ala.; Thune, S.D.; Vitter, La.; Wicker, Miss.

Republicans Not Voting

Alexander, Tenn.; Cornyn, Texas; Craig, Idaho; Graham, S.C.; Hagel, Neb.; Smith, Ore.; Stevens, Alaska; Sununu, N.H.

Others Yes

Lieberman, Conn.; Sanders, Vt.

BTW - This is the UAW's fault, not Congress. The Senate wanted assurances that the UAW would lower wages to be comparable to those of foreign autoworkers in America. UAW said no. Senate voted No.

How is this Congress's fault? Seriously?

[Msterbeau]

Every single human being on this Earth is born being "bad with money". Nobody can help these people but themselves and discipline (and possibly influence on how they were raised, but that can be overcame). The world sucks, but that's how it works. Same goes for anyone trying to lose weight - discipline. Anyone trying to quit smoking - discipline. Anyone trying to quit drinking or doing drugs - discipline. You can have as many people throwing tips, advice, help, wtfever your way and it won't work. Why? Because at the end of the day, your problems come down to you controlling them and nobody else.

It's called "don't reach in your pocket, pull out money, and blow it on shit you don't need like five dollar status-symbol lattes from Starbucks and big screen TVs". Nobody forces anyone else to spend their money except for themselves, and if you go out and spend all of your money and turn around asking for handouts, then yeah...I'm sorry but then you lose when it comes to being disciplined.

And no it's not easy, anything worth anything in this world is not easy, I never said it was.

Besides, I don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist. I went to your house only a few days ago, you're a homeowner, and you've got some nice furniture. Since you aren't in foreclosure like most other moronic Americans who spent outside of their means, it obviously means you're not as bad with money as most, so I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. The people I'm describing as "losers" are the people that go out and buy their one year old $90 shoes when they're going to grow out of them in a month or two instead of paying their mortgage (and yes, I know these people first hand and I've let them know to their face how I felt).

And I still stand by my point, those people should not own homes, they should have to go through the rapid cycle of renting/eviction/renting/eviction/renting/eviction/renting/eviction until they finally get it right. Owning a home in America should be a privelidge to those who are smart enough to watch their pocket books and make good sound money choices, it should not be a right, and the rest of us should NOT be punished just because some a-hole got a house he couldn't afford and kept spending and spending on frivolous bullshit. I pay my payment every month on time, why should I be affected for everyone else's bad decisions when I'm doing the right thing?

I don't own my home, I rent. And my knickers are in a twist because you insist on calling whole groups of people, some of which might be on this board, names like loser and idiot. Some of them may well be, some of them not. Either way, it's rude and inconsiderate.

The other point I was trying to make is that some people, will NEVER have certain skills no matter how hard they try. Take a person like me. I have significant impairment from ADD, a shit memory, some crazy irrational fears etc... I have a hard time managing many aspects of my life. Does it look like it to outsiders? Mostly no. But it's there and will never cease to struggle with it. Your point about discipline is only valid for some people. It does not apply to everyone. You judge strictly from your world view without empathy for others. You want everyone to not have an excuse for how they are and how they act. Genetics beg to differ.

[Msterbeau]

BTW - This is the UAW's fault, not Congress. The Senate wanted assurances that the UAW would lower wages to be comparable to those of foreign autoworkers in America. UAW said no. Senate voted No.

How is this Congress's fault? Seriously?

Not that I'm sticking up for the union but look where the foreign auto plants are located and then check out how their senators voted.

[Goth Brooks]

Not that I'm sticking up for the union but look where the foreign auto plants are located and then check out how their senators voted.

Check out why their Senators voted no.

[Msterbeau]

Check out why their Senators voted no.

I read that Friday. I'm not saying the reasons they say are wrong, but there's certainly more to it then what they let on.

[Goth Brooks]

I read that Friday. I'm not saying the reasons they say are wrong, but there's certainly more to it then what they let on.

Maybe they just don't give a shit about idiots losing money, and unions going under?

The 3 need to file bankruptcy and renegotiate their contracts, or just go under for all time.

[Brenda Starrr]

So the financial industry, who, in my opinion, are the real source of this mess, gets $700 billion without a plan or anything, and congressional Republicans want to stick it to the auto industry because the UAW won't make immediate wage concessions? This whole thing is fucked and we're all going to pay dearly for it.

You DID see how AIG went on a spa weekend and had almost $24,000 in spa services alone, didn't you?

This whole country is fucked up.

[SaGa]

yup and us being detroit who happen to have nothing but the big 3, will get hit hard. its already a complete hiring freeze.

i really whouldnt mind seeing the REAL unemployment rate in michigan. anyone who is eligable who is on record and does not have a job be added. currently its just recording how many are currently claiming there checks

[TheGimp]

BAILOUT=

EPIC FALUIRE

[Raev]

I work under the Ford umbrella, I drive a Honda.

Fuck their shitty cars, fuck the UAW up the fucking ass!

Piece of shit cars. Piece of shit union. I just wish our region wasn't so dependent on those pieces of shit.

[DarkVampire]

You would be amazed at the quality standards between Chrysler and Toyota, my factory's customers. Toyota wouldn't accept half the shit parts we send to Chrysler. They're not picky at all on the substandard components that get installed on their cars. Honda will be a new customer for us in 2010, we got their contract to make some parts. I heard they are more picky than Toyota. Shows that American made cars are junk compared to foreign brands.

Unions suck, never cared for them, never will. We don't need them any more. This isn't the early 1900's when workers were being exploited left and right. We have Federal, State and local laws for that. UAW is stupid and they are not looking out for their employees best interest. You take concessions and have a job or you don't make them and the big three go under and you will be unemployed. Logic failure in there some where.

[candyman]

You would be amazed at the quality standards between Chrysler and Toyota, my factory's customers. Toyota wouldn't accept half the shit parts we send to Chrysler. They're not picky at all on the substandard components that get installed on their cars. Honda will be a new customer for us in 2010, we got their contract to make some parts. I heard they are more picky than Toyota. Shows that American made cars are junk compared to foreign brands.

Unions suck, never cared for them, never will. We don't need them any more. This isn't the early 1900's when workers were being exploited left and right. We have Federal, State and local laws for that. UAW is stupid and they are not looking out for their employees best interest. You take concessions and have a job or you don't make them and the big three go under and you will be unemployed. Logic failure in there some where.

If you wanna see the difference go test drive a new Honda Civic and the test drive a Chevy Cobalt...one is oh so nice and the other is a glorified go-kart

[Dollardave]

Seems like our country will fail as well

wha pissed me off the Republicans asshole are buddy buddy with the banker's and it took no time for them to get bailed out,

I have no idea how this will affect the world's economy.

Our shop is aircraft/military mfg,and contract I do not know how and if this will affect us,we just stated getting overtime

let alone more orders,the place has been in business for about 60 years.

what worries me is my mother's job,my brothers business

and several frinds that work directly or in directly withe the auto industry.

I'd like to know what our unfit government will do when 3

quarters of the U.S. population is unemployed(being sarcastic)

Shit hs now hit the fan.

Don't be so sure my friends company Warren Tank Plant got shut down. My friend designed the laser tracking system on the patroit missle in C++. This was back in the day. The govt shut the plant down. Be careful on taking weapons based jobs especially now that we got that liberal obama who is trying to end the war in iraq. If this happens it will be a while then anarchy will break out then we'll have to go back in told to me by a friend who is one of the generals that oversees a region of Iraq. It wasnt till just recent that we pulled out of panama if I'm not mistaken give or take 10yrs and we're still in the Phillipines according to John McCain or stayed there decades(as well as in other countries) I'm not sure exactly what he said.

$$

[Goth Brooks]

the patriot missile doesn't use lasers, nor laser tracking.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Just as an FYI, we handed over control of the Canal in 1999.

[Goth Brooks]

Just as an FYI, we handed over control of the Canal in 1999.

I'm seeing some tin pot che' wannabe trying to take control in the future, forcing us to take control of it back.

We built the damn thing, I think we should've stayed.

[Michiko_Dreads]

Regaurdless of what happens we are going into a Recession.

Economies dont go up and up forever.

I know there has been plenty of finacial difficulties that are getting us there faster but its going to happen.

No matter who we bail out or what jobs we get there is going to be a recession.

At this rate, SHIT, we might as well be going into a Depression.

[Dollardave]

the patriot missile doesn't use lasers, nor laser tracking.

maybe i'm thinking of another missle this was 9 yrs ago. Who knows it dont matter.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

We built the damn thing, I think we should've stayed.

100% agreement here.

[Dollardave]

100% agreement here.

Who knows who cares I just worry about the laws of my country. And about the missle I thought he said laser it was years ago and I dont even talk to him anymore I dont know exactly what he did(this isnt a missle essay site) but he did something who cares.

$$

[TomCat]

Everybody here needs to read "How To Ruin America" by Ben Stein and Phil Demuth. It delves deeply into the problems that our country has. Very deep, insightful, and a very good read.

[Reaper]

Well I think last I heard they were getting an extension loan to get them through 3 months to prove their worthiness. Still blows that they are giving all that money to the financials whom are giving themselves bonuses.

Meanwhile, I sit at home waiting for work as my company hasn't had anything coming through and has even cut some office jobs at the home terminal. No work the week of Christmas and none this week of New Years. I just hope that the Flint plant stays on schedule for reopening on Jan 13th so I can return to normality. So much for staying on time with the house payments. Maybe this will include me in the assistance for homeowners and help me get that 4.5% rate sooner than 6 months.

[Scary Guy]

Regaurdless of what happens we are going into a Recession.

At this rate, SHIT, we might as well be going into a Depression.

Right, I was gonna say....

We ARE in a recession, we're going into a depression.

My friend had this to say about the bailout.

"Awesome. The bailout didn't take because I want these greedy fuckers to feel the pain of their greed. People will survive, I will too as well as my business. However, I'm not going to bail out bad financial choices on their part and it makes me glad that the house didn't think we should either. I'm tired of this false economy shit with people making fortunes on nothing. It's great to see the start of the downfall of the great empire. Unless people get their heads out of their asses and start to make rational decisions, nothing good can happen and this is a fucking wakeup call from too many bad investments, too much false confidence and too much speculation. Let supply and demand dictate like it used to, with real world markets and not all this fluff."

"Jump you fuckers" isn't just for wallstreet.

[Tacohitts]

The Federal Reserve was a big mistake

The Roman Empire lasted many more years

than the American has ever even been around.

[Goth Brooks]

The Federal Reserve was a big mistake

The Roman Empire lasted many more years

than the American has ever even been around.

uh... the Roman REPUBLIC only lasted 482yrs. Hell really only 421yrs, Sulla pretty much putting an end to it in 88BC by marching on Rome.

We're going on 221 years, halfway there.