Bring Me Your Kink

[n0Mad]

Sorry hunhee, I stole your title.

Anyway ... For those of you who have seen shows from Chaos, Draconian, or any of the other production companies, or attended events such as Exotica, I have a few questions for you.

1) What did you like about said show/event and definitely want to keep?

2) What didn't you like about said show/event and definitely want to get rid of?

3) What didn't you see included but you wish was.

4) Any other suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc?

Discuss. Thank you.

[Msterbeau]

The single, overriding impression I get from all of them is a distinct lack of polish and professionalism. They feel very amateurish. My expectations may be too high. Still... I think all of acts that are employed require a lot more practice, a more serious approach by the people involved and more careful choreography.

[hunhee]

The single, overriding impression I get from all of them is a distinct lack of polish and professionalism. They feel very amateurish. My expectations may be too high. Still... I think all of acts that are employed require a lot more practice, a more serious approach by the people involved and more careful choreography.

I have to agree. Most times when I'm at one of these productions, I get excited because I think.. OH BOY!!! I'm going to see something new. Then there's a lot of dead time, people don't know where they're supposed to be standing, what they're supposed to be doing.

Sometimes the girls have NO IDEA how to be sexy (not that I do either, but I don't even pretend to know), they look like they're just going through the motions. I did once see a Hellbound with Chaos like 6-7 years ago (maybe longer) that I thought a few acts were very well done, but that was a LONG time ago, and the two performers are probably long gone by now, probably professionals, because they seriously were that good.

I guess I would suggest maybe practicing the show from start to finish (dress rehearsals) help.

[chaosgypsy]

Sorry hunhee, I stole your title.

Anyway ... For those of you who have seen shows from Chaos, Draconian, or any of the other production companies, or attended events such as Exotica, I have a few questions for you.

1) What did you like about said show/event and definitely want to keep?

nothing, i hate performing at public shows because I have noticed that michigan is one of the most judgemental drama filled states.

I have performed all over the US and and even in LA we got an amazing reception.

Not to mention everyone thought chaos was about the shows, no one noticed they were running a 3 day convention2) What didn't you like about said show/event and definitely want to get rid of?

everything, at the end i made no money, never got to see my friends and just wanted to kill people. The walk thru all weekend at exotica was 3000 and I never felt more lonely3) What didn't you see included but you wish was.

Good supportive people, there were some awesome people, but always someone, mostly someone who has never been on stage has something to say about what could have been better.

Its not about that, its about making a scene in Detroit. Thanks to these people 3 production companies retired this year.

4) Any other suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc?

Live life, love it and stop judgeing (spelled wrong who cares?) people.

Fetish shows are about having fun and be kinky, not about who could do the best stand up straight and shake move.\

At exotica we had arielist performers, a grinder troup, suspension troop, a crazy live presentation from a new orleans living art troop and so much more....

and they are still being nit picked, people come on! it about having fun, not about being a condiseur of fetish or what i like to call a snob.

Discuss. Thank you.

this is just my opinion.

[chaosgypsy]

And lastly, i guess i am going to speak for all the production companies, stop having topics where you discuss the pros and cons of the troop. We are people, with lives, and feelings.

City club for sure did not like it when someone said it sucked, bands dont like it, scott i know you would freak if someone talked about your whipping, why why why!

Draconian is one of the last fetish troop MI has, do yourself a favor and support what you have. Go to there shows and have fun! Dont worry about what is perfect and what is not.

I can tell you this Tim Woodward from the skin two rubber ball was at Exotica and said it was an amazing show.

I know he wasnt just saying that to be nice, so if he thinks that, then fetish shows all over the world must be about the same thing. watching a kinky fetish show and having fun.

ok i might just have made a jack ass of myself but at least i made sure to relay how i felt. maybee i didnt stand in the right position while doing it but i did it.

[DJ Nocker]

Several things should be said about the detroit fetish companies.

First off, no one wants to be a part of them for some reason, you need to have performers to put on big shows, and when you only have like seven people, it makes it a bit more difficult to perform complex scenes. Second, there are few places that will give the companies a place to perform, especially a place that are appropriate to perform at (places with a actual stage and maybe a curtain.) Third and probably the most important is the fact that no one funds the companies aside from the people in them, and none of them are made of money unfortunatly. Most of the people have jobs that arent the best...or are unemployed and cant give alot of money becuase well...they need a rof over there heads. If the companies could spend the thousands of dollars it costs for gimp outfits, gas masks, nice whips, furniture, latex ect...then they would and the scenes would be a lot cooler, believe me....I wish we could. Being in draconian, I can say that even I wish we could do more intense shows, more complex shows, but with the funding/lack of rehersal space among other things, it is difficult to think of ways to accomplish this. It irritates all of us, believe me. I myself have thought about leaving the troop for these reasons, but I know its not all our fault, its the circumstances we are in as well. Hopefully everyone takes this into account when they go to these kinds of show, and I hope people continue to support the troop.

[Rev.Reverence]

I get to this on weekday spooky...I havn't the brains t'day...

[Oh_My_Goth]

And lastly, i guess i am going to speak for all the production companies, stop having topics where you discuss the pros and cons of the troop. We are people, with lives, and feelings.

City club for sure did not like it when someone said it sucked, bands dont like it, scott i know you would freak if someone talked about your whipping, why why why!

Draconian is one of the last fetish troop MI has, do yourself a favor and support what you have. Go to there shows and have fun! Dont worry about what is perfect and what is not.

I can tell you this Tim Woodward from the skin two rubber ball was at Exotica and said it was an amazing show.

I know he wasnt just saying that to be nice, so if he thinks that, then fetish shows all over the world must be about the same thing. watching a kinky fetish show and having fun.

ok i might just have made a jack ass of myself but at least i made sure to relay how i felt. maybee i didnt stand in the right position while doing it but i did it.

Are you standing on your head?????

You are just being honest..

It is right that people should not look at it to be more that what it is.. It's a fetish show.. & That's what goes on there.. Fetish type stuff..

In Me opinion, the shows have greatly improved thruogh the years.. The competition helped.. There were suddenly a dozen fetish troops popping up all over & it made everyone work harder..

& Yeah, Have fun and quite worrying about what could be better, kidz..

Shit, I personally challenge anyone who thinks they can do better to do it.

[prick]

You bring me your kink!

[DJ Nocker]

Are you standing on your head?????

You are just being honest..

It is right that people should not look at it to be more that what it is.. It's a fetish show.. & That's what goes on there.. Fetish type stuff..

In Me opinion, the shows have greatly improved thruogh the years.. The competition helped.. There were suddenly a dozen fetish troops popping up all over & it made everyone work harder..

& Yeah, Have fun and quite worrying about what could be better, kidz..

Shit, I personally challenge anyone who thinks they can do better to do it.

I would rather people voice there complaints becuase it tells the people in hte troop what to change. I agree with the things Master and hunhee said, and im in one of the troops, I just know the reasons that make the shows go the way that they do.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I would rather people voice there complaints becuase it tells the people in hte troop what to change. I agree with the things Master and hunhee said, and im in one of the troops, I just know the reasons that make the shows go the way that they do.

I did shows as well.. So I do understand what goes on.. All to well..

I'm not saying people should not give constructive criticism, it just tends to go way beyond that and often turns into a pissing contest, so to speak..

& Really I was just defending her right to voice her opinion.

[hunhee]

I believe Spook is helping a friend who's organizing one of these troops, and maybe wants to get an idea of what people liked about the shows, and what they would like to see. Without outside input, they're not going to know what to improve on and what to get rid of.

I would love to see these groups flourish. If you need practice room, maybe ask the people running the different club nights to help out. Take two or three of the skits, and have them go to the different club nights. It's called cross promotion. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours. The music is in the correct genre, I'm sure the DJ's won't mind putting on some of your music while helping you guys perfect your trade. I'm not saying a busy place, but the few that are just getting started. There's at least two a week you can work at. (I believe that's kinda what Circus Obscene is trying to do, and it's a great idea).

It will get the name of your group out, make pretty pictures for your club night, and you can put them on your websites, and people will come.

Believe me, I took dance for over 12 years, and was in a performance group for 4 it's not easy, it takes practice, but if you practice a lot, it makes the payoff so much better.

[chaosgypsy]

I would rather people voice there complaints becuase it tells the people in hte troop what to change. I agree with the things Master and hunhee said, and im in one of the troops, I just know the reasons that make the shows go the way that they do.

it is one thing to do constructive critisism but it is another to just say mean things to say them.

its like going to the strip club and sitting down and your friends begin to insult the strippers because they are not a perfect 10. I just dont get it, instead of knocking the bad things why not voice what people would like to see or focus on the positive things.

I just think people are to negative, and the reason for this is they feel bad about themselves. So if everyone feels shitty than all will be well.

There will never be a Hollywood movie style fetish show here in Detroit. For one reason it wouldnt be real fetish anymore it would be a "poser" view of the fetish world. Many people that love fetish are not supermodels or perfect 10's they are regular people with regular lives. Thats what makes the fetish world so hot, its real.....

[chaosgypsy]

I believe Spook is helping a friend who's organizing one of these troops, and maybe wants to get an idea of what people liked about the shows, and what they would like to see. Without outside input, they're not going to know what to improve on and what to get rid of.

I would love to see these groups flourish. If you need practice room, maybe ask the people running the different club nights to help out. Take two or three of the skits, and have them go to the different club nights. It's called cross promotion. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours. The music is in the correct genre, I'm sure the DJ's won't mind putting on some of your music while helping you guys perfect your trade. I'm not saying a busy place, but the few that are just getting started. There's at least two a week you can work at. (I believe that's kinda what Circus Obscene is trying to do, and it's a great idea).

It will get the name of your group out, make pretty pictures for your club night, and you can put them on your websites, and people will come.

Believe me, I took dance for over 12 years, and was in a performance group for 4 it's not easy, it takes practice, but if you practice a lot, it makes the payoff so much better.

I dont mean to be a dick, its just threw the years...all 10 of them...I have noticed everyone tells you what needs to be better, but nobody looks at the big picture. For chaos it wasnt about the show it was about the party.

We rehearsed every week and planned big shows, every week for 10 years there were rehearsels.... But the shows were just a small part of what was involved. The door staff, the flyers, the venue, street teams, organizing the event, getting a dj, taking care of the money, dealing with the club...

so much goes into it.

i wish anyone luck who wishes to go this road. Most troops will not even survive a year, for those that do it is a crazy wild fun hard time ahead of you.

The only thing I wish was different was that people should just loosen up a bit and just have fun. In the long run nothing realy matters except for the expeirance that you have.......

And now I am done with my rampage....back to not talking:)

[Msterbeau]

I dont mean to be a dick, its just threw the years...all 10 of them...I have noticed everyone tells you what needs to be better, but nobody looks at the big picture. For chaos it wasnt about the show it was about the party.

We rehearsed every week and planned big shows, every week for 10 years there were rehearsels.... But the shows were just a small part of what was involved. The door staff, the flyers, the venue, street teams, organizing the event, getting a dj, taking care of the money, dealing with the club...

so much goes into it.

i wish anyone luck who wishes to go this road. Most troops will not even survive a year, for those that do it is a crazy wild fun hard time ahead of you.

The only thing I wish was different was that people should just loosen up a bit and just have fun. In the long run nothing realy matters except for the expeirance that you have.......

And now I am done with my rampage....back to not talking:)

I get what your saying.. but if people are paying to come see you perform, they expect more then a party amongst yourselves. All I know, is what I see as a paying costumer. I don't expect Broadway but I do expect more then I generally have seen at these shows. If the troop expects to grow and thrive, they have to be willing to do whatever it takes to improve and satisfy the audience. The fact that they keep dying off can't be blamed on the audience. They would support them if they felt these shows were consistently worth their money. They haven't, so what does that tell you? I think the fact that there have been so many troops hasn't helped either. You're splitting a very limited audience. My feeling, based on various discussions, is that there are so many because a lot of people are unwilling to work with others for a variety of personal reasons. Again, if you expect to survive, put that crap aside, band together the best performers and practice the show until it is polished and worth the money that's charged to see it.

[Ice Queen (1)]

Fetish shows are about having fun and be kinky, not about who could do the best stand up straight and shake move.\

At exotica we had arielist performers, a grinder troup, suspension troop, a crazy live presentation from a new orleans living art troop and so much more....

The aerialist was amazing, the grinder show was one of the best I have seen in some time, I loved all the rope bondage stuff, and overall I enjoyed the shows that I managed to catch when I wasn't otherwise occupied. Among the better things I have seen in Michigan.

[chaosgypsy]

I get what your saying.. but if people are paying to come see you perform, they expect more then a party amongst yourselves. All I know, is what I see as a paying costumer. I don't expect Broadway but I do expect more then I generally have seen at these shows. If the troop expects to grow and thrive, they have to be willing to do whatever it takes to improve and satisfy the audience. The fact that they keep dying off can't be blamed on the audience. They would support them if they felt these shows were consistently worth their money. They haven't, so what does that tell you? I think the fact that there have been so many troops hasn't helped either. You're splitting a very limited audience. My feeling, based on various discussions, is that there are so many because a lot of people are unwilling to work with others for a variety of personal reasons. Again, if you expect to survive, put that crap aside, band together the best performers and practice the show until it is polished and worth the money that's charged to see it.

this is so making me break my rules about not talking and just watching...dammit!

I understand that you expect to see more for the price, Exotica's round trip ticket was $35... however we had over 9 fashion shows, and i believe over 50 performers with 6 different troops.

I think you are right about troop not wanting to work together, we sent out invites to every troop in Michigan and had only 1 responded. There is allot of competition in michigan, no one wants to work together.

I dont blame the audience for the scene dieing in michigan. its hard to explain, its just there is so much drama and negative feelings here. when i went to cali for the first time i was told to expect people being snobby and acting like we were nothing. they were so nice, i couldnt believe it. people just wanted to party and have a good time. Michigan had proven to me to be the more snobby state and I have heard this from everyone that comes here.

We are so quick to judge, and worry about what others are doing.

I dont know if I am making sense. I performerd and ran a troop for 10 years. At the end it was just such a dead feeling. It was never enough. You could suspend someone from there clitoris and have a pole put up there ass and you would get.

"Thats not hard core enought" "She didnt have a great body" "that was to hard core" "She looked like a barbie"

and then my faveorite "I could have done better"

It killed my spirit. I started performing because I felt fetish in my blood, I dreamed of dirty wild things and wanted people to see them on stage. I wanted people to watch me as I beat a girl and then ripped off her clothes, I wanted them to watch us and want to touch us so I could smile back at them and know what they were thinking.

Then I tought others that feeling and it was amazing.

Then something happened, I stopped wanting to perform for the audience. I felt angry instead of sexual. I couldnt deal with all the he said she said, she fat thats dumb i am better bullshit.

Now if I perform ever again, it will be for a private group, who apprieciates what I do.

.......................................i feel so weird saying all this....but whatever.

[Msterbeau]

this is so making me break my rules about not talking and just watching...dammit!

I understand that you expect to see more for the price, Exotica's round trip ticket was $35... however we had over 9 fashion shows, and i believe over 50 performers with 6 different troops.

I think you are right about troop not wanting to work together, we sent out invites to every troop in Michigan and had only 1 responded. There is allot of competition in michigan, no one wants to work together.

I dont blame the audience for the scene dieing in michigan. its hard to explain, its just there is so much drama and negative feelings here. when i went to cali for the first time i was told to expect people being snobby and acting like we were nothing. they were so nice, i couldnt believe it. people just wanted to party and have a good time. Michigan had proven to me to be the more snobby state and I have heard this from everyone that comes here.

We are so quick to judge, and worry about what others are doing.

I dont know if I am making sense. I performerd and ran a troop for 10 years. At the end it was just such a dead feeling. It was never enough. You could suspend someone from there clitoris and have a pole put up there ass and you would get.

"Thats not hard core enought" "She didnt have a great body" "that was to hard core" "She looked like a barbie"

and then my faveorite "I could have done better"

It killed my spirit. I started performing because I felt fetish in my blood, I dreamed of dirty wild things and wanted people to see them on stage. I wanted people to watch me as I beat a girl and then ripped off her clothes, I wanted them to watch us and want to touch us so I could smile back at them and know what they were thinking.

Then I tought others that feeling and it was amazing.

Then something happened, I stopped wanting to perform for the audience. I felt angry instead of sexual. I couldnt deal with all the he said she said, she fat thats dumb i am better bullshit.

Now if I perform ever again, it will be for a private group, who apprieciates what I do.

.......................................i feel so weird saying all this....but whatever.

You're passionate about what you love... nothing wrong with that. And maybe the private thing, in small groups is what you should do. Often we have these big dreams about what we'd like to do and become, and it can take some time and knocks to realize that something smaller and more personal is what we really should be doing to make ourselves happy and productive. I hope you find that place, because passions shouldn't die just because one version of our dreams isn't working out.

[DJ Nocker]

I believe Spook is helping a friend who's organizing one of these troops, and maybe wants to get an idea of what people liked about the shows, and what they would like to see. Without outside input, they're not going to know what to improve on and what to get rid of.

I would love to see these groups flourish. If you need practice room, maybe ask the people running the different club nights to help out. Take two or three of the skits, and have them go to the different club nights. It's called cross promotion. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours. The music is in the correct genre, I'm sure the DJ's won't mind putting on some of your music while helping you guys perfect your trade. I'm not saying a busy place, but the few that are just getting started. There's at least two a week you can work at. (I believe that's kinda what Circus Obscene is trying to do, and it's a great idea).

It will get the name of your group out, make pretty pictures for your club night, and you can put them on your websites, and people will come.

Believe me, I took dance for over 12 years, and was in a performance group for 4 it's not easy, it takes practice, but if you practice a lot, it makes the payoff so much better.

We do cross promote and we do ask the clubs for rehersal time. We have done that for a couple years actually.

[TheOsakaKoneko]

Honestly I think Chaos and the rest are pretty great. Fetish shows are not perfect productions, they are acted through together, live, real...they aren't really an 'act' so they're not going to be perfect every time. Shit happens.

The only complaint I have with every single event I have seen here is over-advertisement/false advertisement. The stuff you guys do is great, and well worth the small ticket price. But you say you are going to have so much more than you end up actually having, so the audience is left disappointed instead of wowed. I know you are trying to entice people to come, but what you actually have should be enough, and you shouldn't over-elaborate which causes those feelings of being cheated/disappointed. At least that's been my experience there. Dark Carnival was an exception I think, I can't think of anything that was missing there off the top of my head. But that first one, what was it again...damn I can't remember, the infamous VIP room business. And then the last day of Exotica being pretty much nonexistent - it said the 'play areas' would still be open, and the shows upstairs, but then they ended up on stage and everything torn down early? Eh. Not a big deal, and granted the last day is the smallest anyway, but it's not a great note to end on. So my only advice would be to WOW your audience - always give them something MORE than they expect, something unexpected and impressive. Leave them floored. Don't ever give them less than you say you will. Ever. Unless there is an absolutely inescapable circumstance, like a performer getting seriously sick all of a sudden, this shouldn't happen, but it seems to be more the rule than the exception in my admittedly-short experience here so far.

BTW This goes not just for fetish events but any event at all, obviously.