I'm anti-Fruity Loops

[Black Sunday9]

So this is gonna sound somewhat hypocritical to some people who don't like electronic musicians to begin with, but I played around with this software called Fruity Loops tonight for the first time.

It takes no effort to write a song on fruity loops, it writes the song for you! I know it shouldn't matter how a song is made as long as it is a good song, but it just seems any idiot with a computer can make an album now, and in about 3 hours they will have a box set ready!

I was even hesitant to use soft synths at all but I've changed my tune on that.

The PS2 and Xbox have "games" similar to Fruity Loops. This guy I worked with brought me in a CD of his techno music, it sounded really good, but I found out he made a whole album on his xbox and I thought it cheapened the whole thing.

at least with pro tools and cubase and logic or whatever, the songs and notes actually come from inside of your head instead of fruity loops where you just plug in notes with your mouse!

[Black Sunday9]

oh by the way, no offense to people who use fruity loops, I don't mean to imply that you are not talented or creative :grin

[Guest Megalicious]

....

[Scary Guy]

I remember in guitar sam (comic strip in guitar world magazine) where it basically said the same thing about MIDI.

I also agree that it takes way less tallent to create a song. But you're also right about that if it is good it shouldn't matter.

Same as DJ'ing with Traktor. Takes absolutely no tallent. It will even beat match for you. You also don't even need headphones as you can see the wave form right on it, which turns the DJ into nothing but a flesh jukebox.

However the vinyl DJs also said the same thing about DJs who used CDs.

So many bands sample and steal from other artists original work anyhow that it really doesn't matter at this point since most everything has been done before. There is only so much you can do with music theory.

Especailly with songs on the radio, that have been produced and rehashed completely. They follow the same formula pretty much.

I also complain about computers in the same way. Used to be you had to go take a class to know how to build or even use one. Now any average joe with an IQ of 5 can build one, but they're still not smart enough to operate it properly.

This is the age of the point and click everything.

I've actually coded music in MS BASIC, not that that means anything.

[Black Sunday9]

I remember in guitar sam (comic strip in guitar world magazine) where it basically said the same thing about MIDI.

I also agree that it takes way less tallent to create a song.  But you're also right about that if it is good it shouldn't matter.

Same as DJ'ing with Traktor.  Takes absolutely no tallent.  It will even beat match for you.  You also don't even need headphones as you can see the wave form right on it, which turns the DJ into nothing but a flesh jukebox.

However the vinyl DJs also said the same thing about DJs who used CDs.

So many bands sample and steal from other artists original work anyhow that it really doesn't matter at this point since most everything has been done before.  There is only so much you can do with music theory.

Especailly with songs on the radio, that have been produced and rehashed completely.  They follow the same formula pretty much.

I also complain about computers in the same way.  Used to be you had to go take a class to know how to build or even use one.  Now any average joe with an IQ of 5 can build one, but they're still not smart enough to operate it properly.

This is the age of the point and click everything.

I've actually coded music in MS BASIC, not that that means anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah you are right. I know you're right.

Still I can't help but have a prejudice about software that makes things SO easy.

I know my prejudice is illogical and hypocritical to a point.

[TomCat]

You mean even I, a virtually musical ly talentles hack, with mad poet skills, can now venture into the world of music? MUAHAHAHAHAH I am the Next New Order!

[phee]

Not a big fan myself... I use cakewalk right now... Nothing wrong with fruity loops just not my bag

[Fierce Critter]

I used Fruityloops for the song I've got on the DGN CD.

I used it 'cause it was the only sequencing software I could download, learn & use in less than 2 weeks.

I would have preferred to use something like Pro Tools, but I just didn't have the time. Also, at the time I started working on the song, I didn't have a computer that could handle Protools - we're talking a Pentium III with only 64 mgs RAM & a 10 gig hard drive. I was barely able to get FruityLoops to work on it.

I did not use a single pre-programmed beat or pre-written loop. The song I created was one I had actually recorded in the early 90's, on which I played bass, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, and sang, with a drum machine to keep a simple beat.

To turn it into the song you hear on the CD, I basically used FruityLoops' instruments & drums to change the same guitar parts to synth parts. And the drum parts are all original - I just started with a simple time-keeping beat and layered what I would consider a typical drum kit's worth of parts (kick, snare, hi-hat, tom, shaker, bells) until it sounded like I'd have wanted a genuine drummer to play it.

Basically, I used FruityLoops like a multi-track studio with lots of instruments at my disposal.

I actually didn't use it the way it's "supposed" to be used. I didn't have time, so I totally bastardized the program. You're supposed to create individual beats/parts, then layer them together. Instead, I programmed every single note or drum beat individually into one, humongously loooooooooooooong part that basically was the whole song. A totally bass-ackwards way of doing it, but as I said, I didn't have time to obtain or learn how to use a program that's actually MEANT to work that way, like ProTools.

I totally agree that it's too easy to create music with some of these programs. I was kinda put-off when I downloaded FL and started teaching myself how to use it, and discovered that it comes with pre-made loops. I was afraid it was only able to use said loops with minor tweakability. Luckily, I figured out how to use it the way I needed to.

I'd like to get a copy of ProTools before I do anything else. But I'm not sure I have everything I need to be able to use it. I've upgraded my computer, so that's not a problem anymore. I'll look into it after we've moved back north.

[phee]

Pro-Tools is actually more of a sound editing software, and not exactly a "sequencer" I like to use them in relation to each other.

[Black Sunday9]

FC, I like your song and your talent is singing, I was not trying to take anything away from you. But just imagine if you could sing into a machine and it would make terrible singers (like me) sound as good as you! That is my point.

Phee, Pro Tools has a sequencer.

[phee]

Phee, Pro Tools has a sequencer.

Yes it does.. but I find it easier to use for audio editing and I find other sequencers used with it more satisfying

[Homicidalheathen]

Is this a free online program? I am using cakewalk right now myself.

So this is gonna sound somewhat hypocritical to some people who don't like electronic musicians to begin with, but I played around with this software called Fruity Loops tonight for the first time. 

It takes no effort to write a song on fruity loops, it writes the song for you!    I know it shouldn't matter how a song is made as long as it is a good song, but it just seems any idiot with a computer can make an album now, and in about 3 hours they will have a box set ready!

I was even hesitant to use soft synths at all but I've changed my tune on that. 

The PS2 and Xbox have "games" similar to Fruity Loops.  This guy I worked with brought me in a CD of his techno music, it sounded really good, but I found out he made a whole album on his xbox and I thought it cheapened the whole thing. 

at least with pro tools and cubase and logic or whatever, the songs and notes actually come from inside of your head instead of fruity loops where you just plug in notes with your mouse!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Scary Guy]

I do believe a free or demo version exists. I think it used to be completely free at one point, but like most software makers popularity grew and they put a pricetag on it.

[Black Sunday9]

Is this a free online program?  I am using cakewalk right now myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what kind of music do you make?

fruity loops is the software that has a bunch on pre programmed loops that you can put together and use your mouse to change the notes and make your own songs. it does all the quantizing for you. it does pretty much all the composing for you.

you do not even need a physical keyboard/synth to make songs. you could literally have a full album worth of dance songs in 1 day without much effort.

Now, Fierce Critter used fruity loops and her song, in my opinion, was the best song on the comp. So I guess the bottom line is that it doesn't matter how you make the song as long as it's good.

In a way I kinda like the idea of how much making electronic music has been simplified to the point where you just need a computer and nothing more.

the other part of me is worried that a 12 year old kid can now replicate a kraftwerk album in a matter of hours.

[Fierce Critter]

I REALLY REALLY want to make it clear that I did not use anything pre-written or pre-programmed to create the song I have on the DGN CD. I used NO fruityloops "loops", no samples, nothing composed by anyone but myself.

I hesitated to admit I was using FruityLoops, because I didn't want anyone to think I was using any single piece of music - any two notes next to each other - that I didn't compose myself.

Again, that song has existed since the early '90's, with nearly identical melody & bass, rhythm & lead parts, but done on guitar - all parts totally composed & played by myself. I basically used FruityLoops for it's instruments and for it's ability to build a song using those instruments, so I could create an electronic version of a formerly all guitar song.

Basically, I remixed myself.

I know you didn't write this thread with the intent of causing me grief, BS. I just want to make it perfectly clear that I could have created the same song sounding nearly exactly the same way using something like ProTools with VST instruments, etc.

[Black Sunday9]

I REALLY REALLY want to make it clear that I did not use anything pre-written or pre-programmed to create the song I have on the DGN CD. I used NO fruityloops "loops", no samples, nothing composed by anyone but myself.

I hesitated to admit I was using FruityLoops, because I didn't want anyone to think I was using any single piece of music - any two notes next to each other - that I didn't compose myself.

Again, that song has existed since the early '90's, with nearly identical melody & bass, rhythm & lead parts, but done on guitar - all parts totally composed & played by myself. I basically used FruityLoops for it's instruments and for it's ability to build a song using those instruments, so I could create an electronic version of a formerly all guitar song.

Basically, I remixed myself.

I know you didn't write this thread with the intent of causing me grief, BS. I just want to make it perfectly clear that I could have created the same song sounding nearly exactly the same way using something like ProTools with VST instruments, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so what are you trying to say?

[Scary Guy]

The program is just a really advanced MIDI composer. Loops exist but you don't need to use them to make a song necessarily.

[Soulrev]

Fruity Loops.. Yeah I used that for a while and about wanted to kill myself. It may be easy to use but god damn I think it sounds way too much like a bad sequencer with anything I wanted to do..

I couldn't stand it anymore and had to get Reason 3.0 - http://www.propellerhead.se

It's expensive but Godlike when it comes to a software synth. I'm not saying anything made on Fruity Loops is bad, cuz obviously you can make some decent songs with it but for what I wanted to do, no....

[Scary Guy]

I use fruity loops to make bad versions of songs I have in my head then can't think of the name of. Then I upload them in midi, put up some lyrics, and ask other people if they know what it is.

[Black Sunday9]

I havent made anything but beats on that particular program .. and i had someone that showed me to use it to its full potential .. not that im saying your not black =) so what kind of music do you make and the important question is are you going to share lol ??? =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's funny you should ask

www.myspace.com/blacksunday

And what about you? have any MP3's of your stuff?

[spacin]

Yeah, I've had people tell me to check out FL.

I would like to write my own drum and synth lines thank you very much.

looks like a fun toy though.

[Dollardave]

I'm too stupid to make music even with tools. I used to play bass in my teens hardcore punk rock bout it for my few musical talents.

So this is gonna sound somewhat hypocritical to some people who don't like electronic musicians to begin with, but I played around with this software called Fruity Loops tonight for the first time. 

It takes no effort to write a song on fruity loops, it writes the song for you!    I know it shouldn't matter how a song is made as long as it is a good song, but it just seems any idiot with a computer can make an album now, and in about 3 hours they will have a box set ready!

I was even hesitant to use soft synths at all but I've changed my tune on that. 

The PS2 and Xbox have "games" similar to Fruity Loops.  This guy I worked with brought me in a CD of his techno music, it sounded really good, but I found out he made a whole album on his xbox and I thought it cheapened the whole thing. 

at least with pro tools and cubase and logic or whatever, the songs and notes actually come from inside of your head instead of fruity loops where you just plug in notes with your mouse!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Homicidalheathen]

Well I checked this out, sorry to sound like a purist but....I like to write my own loops and beats and everything and this seems like cheating to me.

I already won't use pencil and paper and write out bars and notes. It is too hard. I like cakewalk you can just move the notes around with the mouse it is so easy. No getting pissed and ripping up paper all night. I am getting spoiled with my puter lol.

[Fierce Critter]

You absolutely CAN write your own beats, loops, and synth lines with FruityLoops. Listen to my song on the DGN CD - not a single note of that came from anything pre-written/programmed by FL.

Unless you purposefully grab one of their pre-made loops or parts and throw it into the playlist editor, you HAVE to create your own beats, loops & songs - beat by beat, note by note.

But FruityLoops isn't a good program if you're already proficient with creating songs on more advanced programs like ProTools, etc. Gads, no - it'd be like deciding to use MacDraw when you already know Illustrator.

But it's a damned good program if you want to learn how to put songs together and are short on time. Then move on to something better when you have more time.

For instance, it came in handy when I needed something quick to download and easy to learn to use when I had less than 2 weeks to complete a song. But one of the things that made it a good program for my circumstances was my song already had been done on guitar parts, so it was just a matter of re-creating the exact same notes. I would imagine it might be a little more difficult to NOT rely on their pre-made loops & parts if you are starting from scratch.

Oh, not to mention, I had to get creative with they way they intend you to put your parts together. Instead of creating a few loops that would be repeated again and again, I had to create one giant part that consisted of my entire song. TOTALLY not the way you're supposed to use the program.

I haven't done another song since the one on the DGN CD because, while FL came in handy to re-create a song I'd already written, I'm ready to move onto something more suited towards starting from scratch, and I can't get a copy of Cakewalk or Protools yet.

[spacin]

For my newer stuff I actually prefer to just use my Triton and use the puter to just record and burn it to CD. (But I guess thats just cause I was lucky enough to pick up brand new Triton Ex 61, oooooooo shiny....)