Videos or songs that are not Goth, but are anyways...

[Rev.Reverence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFVZtp9DQ3A...ec-HM-fresh+div

^^Human League - "Don't you want me baby?"

Is a pop song...but DAMN...isn't it goth??

[Rev.Reverence]

Gary Newman- "Cars"

[Nightgaunt]

As loud as hell,

A ringing bell;

Behind my smile

It shakes my teeth,

And all the while,

As vampires feed,

I bleed.

Prithee my dear,

Why are we here?

Nobody knows.

We go to sleep.

As breathing flows,

My mind secedes.

I bleed.

There's a place

In the buried west,

In a cave,

With a house in it.

In the clay,

The holes of hands.

You can place

A hand in hand.

There's a lot of controversy as to what this song's all about, from vampires to high school to Anasazi blood cults and UFOs. I think that it may be about an out of body experience of Charles Thompson's (Black Francis), but it's just a guess...

[Rev.Reverence]

YES!

...& ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLP35SNOSDY...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeBMHnJqAvM.

[Scary Guy]

Like any of you know what goth is.

The Sisters of Mercy technically isn't goth because Andrew says so, apparently.

Going with my definition anything darker in nature = goth

I'm going to go listen to Shape of Despair now. Although the fact that no one knows what goth is anymore makes me want to get all emo and sad, which is a whole other argument for another day.

(edited to add) Hell goth isn't even goth anymore, it's deathrock now because people like you shat all over it.

Apparently what is and is not goth changes from person to person to whatever they want it to be. Thanks for ruining it, THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

Edited February 21, 2009 by Scary Guy

[Nightgaunt]

Apparently what is and is not goth changes from person to person to whatever they want it to be.

Yes, and therein lies the beauty of it. "Goth" is a state of mind and it means something different to everyone; hence different songs bring different people into said state of mind. Classifications and genres exist for convenience's sake. When they cease to be convenient and begin to become an impediment, they should be discarded.

These two cents generously donated by the Nightgaunt.

[Az_]

Going to the other side of the planet for this stuff.

[Az_]

Going to the other side of the planet for this stuff.

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Here is a pic the whet your appetite.

[Scary Guy]

Yes, and therein lies the beauty of it. "Goth" is a state of mind and it means something different to everyone; hence different songs bring different people into said state of mind. Classifications and genres exist for convenience's sake. When they cease to be convenient and begin to become an impediment, they should be discarded.

These two cents generously donated by the Nightgaunt.

Agreed, and I heard they're being phased out in the next dictionary making it an unword. The new term is "double plus emo"

I'm not saying ditch it completely I'm saying modify the definition to something everyone can agree on.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

Funny you

[Joey Deadcat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFVZtp9DQ3A...ec-HM-fresh+div

^^Human League - "Don't you want me baby?"

Is a pop song...but DAMN...isn't it goth??

No, but Being Boiled is.

[Joey Deadcat]

And just stay away from "deathrock".

[Rev.Reverence]

Like any of you know what goth is.

The Sisters of Mercy technically isn't goth because Andrew says so, apparently.

Going with my definition anything darker in nature = goth

I'm going to go listen to Shape of Despair now. Although the fact that no one knows what goth is anymore makes me want to get all emo and sad, which is a whole other argument for another day.

(edited to add) Hell goth isn't even goth anymore, it's deathrock now because people like you shat all over it.

Apparently what is and is not goth changes from person to person to whatever they want it to be. Thanks for ruining it, THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

WOW.....SO funny how SOME peoples seek tolerance...but they are not ready to show any...huh?

[Rev.Reverence]

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I've long held that music/movies/whatever ARE goth if we decide they fit the critera. Its not up to the artist or to promorters to tell us what kind of art is they are making. That even includes "bad" art, if someting is bad, that does not mean it isn't art, by the same token "bad gothic" .. its still gothic, we just don't happen to like it.

There are several artists and especially particular songs by "non goth" artist that are goth as HELL. Goth has long been such a very loose umbrella that it could include a vast swath of things.

Simon & Garfunkel - I Am A Rock for instance is totally goth in feel.

[Scary Guy]

WOW.....SO funny how SOME peoples seek tolerance...but they are not ready to show any...huh?

I've never sought tolerance. I'm totally in favor of killing the stupid and a bunch of other things I don't like. Killing off misconceptions about what is/is not goth with the new school definition (already accepted by many I might add) is high on that list of priorities.

[Joey Deadcat]

[Rev.Reverence]

I've long held that music/movies/whatever ARE goth if we decide they fit the critera. Its not up to the artist or to promorters to tell us what kind of art is they are making. That even includes "bad" art, if someting is bad, that does not mean it isn't art, by the same token "bad gothic" .. its still gothic, we just don't happen to like it.

There are several artists and especially particular songs by "non goth" artist that are goth as HELL. Goth has long been such a very loose umbrella that it could include a vast swath of things.

Simon & Garfunkel - I Am A Rock for instance is totally goth in feel.

YES IT DOES SIR!

[Rev.Reverence]

I've never sought tolerance. I'm totally in favor of killing the stupid and a bunch of other things I don't like. Killing off misconceptions about what is/is not goth with the new school definition (already accepted by many I might add) is high on that list of priorities.

You started a thread recently that clearly states otherwise, Sir.

I staunchly BELIEVE that ACTIONS speak LOUDER than WORDS.

...AND..I believe that you are correct...things NEED redefinition...or they become stagnant...& odoriferous....AND....that TOLERANCE needs to be brought back...I remember when ALL the different kinds of Goth-kiddz were ALL friends..at least in passing (as we were ALL "FRIEKS")...& everyone had a grand time...not so much bickering about who is what & who isn't "GOTH-ENOUGH"......but shit....that was 8-10 years ago.....maybe it was JUST ME...if SO...COOL SHIT! I am cooler than I thought!

...but I do not think that's the case...SO...if you don't mind...I think I'll go back to work destroying the lines between genera.

ONE TRIBE!

[Joey Deadcat]

Hence, the deathrockers and art-punks shunning the "g" word.

[Rev.Reverence]

Hence, the deathrockers and art-punks shunning the "g" word.

That makes NO sence...& really...did you guys have a meeting??

'Nother one

^{I love this one...you see...he doesn't WANT to fight...& he is sad because these dudes seriously pushed him to the point of physicality.}

Edited February 23, 2009 by Rev.Reverence

[Scales]

To stay on topic: Colorblind by Counting Crows and Showbiz by Muse.

IMHO, if your going to tell someone whether they or their music is Goth or not when the subculture has become as open as it is, its kind of a negative exertion of authority with little difference to the negative Statist exertion of authority that Punk music has always been against. Since Goth came from Post-Punk which came from Punk, the divisive attitude is kind of ironic. Cultures will continue to change, thrive, or fade regardless, so why be proud to a point of cutting people down?

With all that said, I have no grudges against anyone. I come here because I'm another bored person on the Internet, not because I want to get into a flame war with people more tolerant and intellectual then I'm going to find around where I live; my signature was a satirical way of making fun of the silly conflict surrounding this forum and since I'm stating all of this I'll take down it. Some people miss this place but choose to rant about it rather than come back and just follow the rules. Whereas others wanted differences in a forum and moved on as they've found necessary. I can understand anyone being pissed-off as part of being human, but there's not much of a point in staying pissed-off over finding resolution or just moving on.

I'll visit this topic again, but I've output my opinion so I'm done posting in it.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Scales

[Nightgaunt]

...did you guys have a meeting??

[Simon Bar Sinister]

3 favorite goth albums that aren't goth albums:

Fumbling Towards Ecstasy - Sarah McLachlan

Human Being - Seal

Bete Noire - Bryan Ferry

[Scary Guy]

You started a thread recently that clearly states otherwise, Sir.

Incorrect, I asked who wanted me here. I didn't ask anyone to tolerate me or accept me. I'm not changing for anyone, nor should I have to, pretty much because I'm right :D

Anyhow Scales it's been a widely known fact that the argument of where goth grew out of eventually falls back to Black Sabbath, then The Doors, then Chamber Music, then cave music beating on rocks with sticks. But that's a whole nother argument.