Grammar Thread

[candyman]

Only if "we" = "the individual who wrote it", not other engineers. It's not technical terminology I mind. It's things that just Do Not Make Sense. From seeing you write on here, you probably aren't one of the guilty ones, but trust me, most of the time other engineers don't understand it either.

Yeah, engineers communitcating is funny for most people to see, but it is not fun to be a part of it! Most of the stuff I write really doesn't make any sense. Take my comment about me being resistant...tires on a hybrid are not very resistant at all so to be truthful it means that I tend to give in very easily.

[Nightgaunt]

We write so we can understand it. Everyone else can deal with it. You may want me to change, but I will put up more resistance than tires on a hybrid!

I can understand LOLcat, but it's annoying as hell to read. I don't think anyone is going to rant and rave because someone spelled something wrong, but I have to say that there is a difference between making a spelling error and simply not caring. I may be able to understand a paragraph full of bad spelling, grammar, and punctuation, but the statement is going to lose some impact if I've got to take time out to parse what the person is trying to say.

[Scary Guy]

[Slept with ghost]

I'm hardly a grammar nazi nut the recent trend of what being spelled wat bugs the hell out of me.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

People that don't know another language and type phrases from said language as if they ARE fluent, and spell those phrases wrong. Namely German and bits of Japanese because that's all I know to pick up on, but if you don't know a foreign language, don't pretend like you do.

Such as people that say "kannichi wa" when it's definately "konnichi wa". Or I've read SO much butchered German in my life it's ridiculous...

I'd rule it outside of a grammar Nazi's jurisdiction to try and enforce their rules on a non-native speaker of a language. That IS going a bit to far. Even though I generally support the Nazi's efforts. An English speaker even BOTHERING to try and tackle a foreign language is something to be encouraged, probably not something to overly nitpick.

[StormKnight (1)]

I had a speech impediment when I was around 4-5 (happens when your incisors were removed at 2-3 years old.) I spent time with a speech therapist when I was in kindergarten/first grade to be able to enunciate. Unfortunately, said therapist was someone who spoke Queen's English, so I have some sharp, snooty undertones to my speaking. Fortunately, she also forced grammar on me at a very early age.

As for spelling, I will still on occasion use British spelling on a few things here or there (armor vs armour,) and may flip back and forth. Also, most modern browsers, (Firefox for Windows and Mac, Safari, Opera,) have an option to highlight spelling errors in what you type. You can go back, right click, and it generates some options for proper spelling. Some people should have this option on all the time.

Another pet peeve of mine: kthxbai, vs. OK, Thanks. Bye! *cringes and reels from headache*

God save the Reich! Sieg Heil! (Looked it up before using. "Victory Hail" doesn't seem to have the same punch.)

p.s.: All the books of Japanese I have the greeting as konnichi wa vs. konnichiha. And in listening, I can't hear the "ha." Which is the most modern system? (contact of this topic.)

We now return you to the English Grammar New Order.

Edited March 28, 2009 by StormKnight
italics for foreign language in English sentence.

[Azeuron]

Biggest pet peve with grammar.... the word Irregardless DOES NOT EXIST!!!!! its Regardless or with Irregard.... not both!!!!!!!! end of rant

[Rayne]

I type just like I talk.

Those of you that have heard me speak, know exactly what I mean.

I get annoyed that spell check for my Mac, doesn't account for the alternate "our" spellings, which is what I was taught growing up, since my father was stationed in Norway in the Marines for many years and grew accustomed to using the alternate spellings.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Rayne

[TygerLili]

One thing that I can't stand is when people type like they do in text messages; "u r goin out later k c ya." If you have a full keyboard in front of you there's no excuse not to spell out words correctly. Thankfully I don't see it here very often, but I see a lot of it on myspace, facebook, etc.

What I do see a lot of on here, which gets on my nerves, is people typing like LOLcats. It was cute for about five minutes, now I just roll my eyes and groan when I see it.

Now for the obilagtory grammar lesson that everyone seems to be tacking onto the end of each of their posts here:

"I saw", "You saw", "He/she/it saw", "We saw", "They saw" = past tense

"I have seen", "You have seen", "He/she/it has seen", "We have seen", "They have seen" = past participle

Both tenses are acceptable. The phrases "I seen", "you seen", "he/she seen" do not make sense and are never acceptable.

[TygerLili]

Oh, I have one more that I see all of the time that drives me nuts. The phrase a lot consists of two words. Please don't put "alot".

Edited March 28, 2009 by TygerLili

[Azeuron]

Oh, I have one more that I see all of the time that drives me nuts. The phrase a lot consists of two words. Please don't put "alot".

agreed!!!!!

[TitsMcGee]

Oh, I have one more that I see all of the time that drives me nuts. The phrase a lot consists of two words. Please don't put "alot".

I try to watch for when I do that, but I miss it sometimes.

[taysteewonderbunny]

'then' v. 'than'

Please also don't confuse 'shewd' with 'shrewish'. [i know, grehalo, that you insist on the American usage of punctuation inside the quote marks, but I can't bring myself to do it if the internal logic of the material in quotes does not require it.]

Edited March 28, 2009 by taysteewonderbunny

[TheOsakaKoneko]

[i know, grehalo, that you insist on the American usage of punctuation inside the quote marks, but I can't bring myself to do it if the internal logic of the material in quotes does not require it.]

Oooooh this one bothers em more than any other because I simply don't know what's right! Enlighten me! I always write it like you did - but I don't know if it's right! Is it American vs English system??

[TheOsakaKoneko]

p.s.: All the books of Japanese I have the greeting as konnichi wa vs. konnichiha. And in listening, I can't hear the "ha." Which is the most modern system? (contact of this topic.)

Japanese lesson time.

Konnichi wa/ konnichiha is written in Japanese as:

こん にち は.

Kon nichi ha

Kon=this

nichi=day

ha=is

It sprung up from a greeting like 'this day is nice' or some such like that, you know, some millennia ago (actually no idea how long, but nonetheless).

ha (は) is a particle that is written as 'ha' but is pronounced as 'wa'. Therefore, when writing it in Arabic characters, romaji, you can write either wa or ha. Last century, it was usually written as 'wa', but recently it's far more common to write it as 'ha'. As for which is better... "Wa" certainly makes it easier on beginners, but it makes it much more difficult for those beginners to transform into more fluent speakers. It creates an artificial speedbump, and is generally considered undesirable. But a lot of textbooks do still tend to use the more phonetic spelling. I suppose you could think of it like ebonics? It might make it easier for young children to read/write/express themselves, and there are some who think things should be taught that way, but it also makes it more difficult for those people to later fully express themselves, and most people think its proponents are nutters.

By the by, most books that teach Japanese may be more likely to use 'wa' than 'ha', but you're already dealing with the subset of Japanese teachers who believe that their students are too stupid to learn the writing system, or that they don't need to. Sorry to say it, but I firmly believe that if you don't make learning the writing system, at least hiragana, your first priority, you will never get very far in the language. (I don't mean it would be impossible, but...it's a big handicap.)

On a second note, there are no spaces in the Japanese language at all. They don't exist. So 'konnichi wa'='konnichiwa'. It's all about wherever you want to break it up to make it easier to read in English/romaji.

Summary: 'konnichiwa' and 'konnichiha' are both correct. So are 'konnichi wa' and 'konnichi ha'. In Japanese, it's こんにちは。You do NOT, however, have the option of saying こんにちわ (わ=the real 'wa') in Japanese, which is why it can cause problems for people to learn 'wa' rather than 'ha'.

[n0Mad]

Also, the Oxford comma... Either way is correct, but I love me some Oxford comma, and I hate when people don't use it. Even though it's perfectly accurate and fine not to.

I hate, Hate, HATE it when the Oxford comma is not used! In my mind, it is never acceptable not to use it. I think the final comma was first dropped to save ink when printing but come on! You can't save that much money. Just use the comma, please. APA requires it.

[i know, grehalo, that you insist on the American usage of punctuation inside the quote marks, but I can't bring myself to do it if the internal logic of the material in quotes does not require it.]

I looked this up for my dad once in my APA manual and there are times when punctuation should be inside quotes, and times when it should be outside of the quotes. Your usage was correct and I totally agree with you about the internal logic of the material.

[Nightgaunt]

I hate, Hate, HATE it when the Oxford comma is not used! In my mind, it is never acceptable not to use it. I think the final comma was first dropped to save ink when printing but come on! You can't save that much money. Just use the comma, please. APA requires it.

+1

[Oh_My_Goth]

It bothers Me when people don't use punctuation, but I'm not anal about it...

[Scary Guy]

http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/jeffk/

[Troy Spiral (13)]

My brain will interchange certain words when I'm typing. I'll end up typing "not" when I mean "now" or "the" when I mean "then". I'll catch these occasionally if I go back over a post later, and assume you all think I'm stupid because what I typed doesn't make any sense.

Unfortunately, the spellchecker will not save us from this.

My biggest grammar pet peeve is when people use "your" instead of "you're".

Despite knowing the proper use of these words, I seem to fail constantly. I'm not sure why. I read a lot, write a lot, still manage to fuck up some of the same things continually.

I could care less about my spelling on forums and what not. Unless its for something important (something for work or school) I dont care, in fact I usually find it funny when people get into arguments online and resort to making fun of each others spelling errors. You know you have lost the argument when you cant say anything but " learn to spell".

Also, the whole people being offended when the word "nazi" is used to describe something other than the actual nazi movement would be known as "Godwin's Law"

It is a matter of degree/tolerance. Piss poor spelling and grammar can make a point hard (if not impossible) to understand as it was intended. Depends on what level of "picky" we are talking about. Good spelling and grammar is clearly useful, even in the most casual of written communication.

Biggest pet peve with grammar.... the word Irregardless DOES NOT EXIST!!!!! its Regardless or with Irregard.... not both!!!!!!!! end of rant

It does not? Damn. Epic fail on my part. I know i have used it at least half a dozen times. *note to self*

Oh, I have one more that I see all of the time that drives me nuts. The phrase a lot consists of two words. Please don't put "alot".

I think I have this one licked... finally.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

It bothers Me when people don't use punctuation, but I'm not anal about it...

Some would say even letting it bother us slightly is being anal. Not that I agree with that. But it depends on who we are talking to.

[pomba gira]

I'm definitely anal about grammar/spelling but try not to be too judgmental. It's easy for me but I realize it isn't for everyone. English being such a totally irrational language doesn't help, either. So when it's just one person writing for another I'm willing to be tolerant... but when all these incorrect apostrophes and affect/effect errors show up in supposedly professional writing... that's unforgivable.

The ones that annoy me most: it's/its, affect/effect (affect is a verb, effect is a noun, in case you're wondering), apostrophes used for plurals, "irregardless", your/you're, "anymore" when used as "this always happens anymore", then/than, and less/fewer.

If you are really interested in improving your grammar and word usage skills, I suggest going to your local teacher's store and getting a workbook. The Remedia series are a good pick.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

There must be something in here against the irritation of all capital letters being used for titles of topics. AS IF THERE IS SOME GODDAMN EMERGENCY ABOUT YOUR PET SUBJECT. Oops. *calms self* lol

[Scary Guy]

There must be something in here against the irritation of all capital letters being used for titles of topics. AS IF THERE IS SOME GODDAMN EMERGENCY ABOUT YOUR PET SUBJECT. Oops. *calms self* lol

[TygerLili]

There must be something in here against the irritation of all capital letters being used for titles of topics. AS IF THERE IS SOME GODDAMN EMERGENCY ABOUT YOUR PET SUBJECT. Oops. *calms self* lol

Honestly, if the grammar in the title of the thread is awful, I usually won't even bother to read it, and if I do, I won't comment, just out of annoyance and protest. A few grammar and spelling errors can be overlooked in the body of the post, but for pete's sake at least make an effort to make the title readable.