The Obama Deception

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The Obama Deception

[asphyxian_doll]

LOL this is funny.

Croc

so....a bunch of short clips, of a bunch of ignorant paranoid skitzos, talking about a bunch of "new world order" government conspiracy crap....is.....the truth?

I have better things to worry about.

lol

Edited April 3, 2009 by asphyxian_doll

[TitsMcGee]

I've only watched a few minutes so far, but I'm definatly going to have to watch the rest of it when I have more time.

[asphyxian_doll]

I tried to watch it but it was too long, and I know where the sources are from....and its just a crock.

I know what the new world order is, and I know how the government is set up.

Its not like its ever been any different 400 years back.

I would rather spend my time working on myself, and being happy and living life.

It doesn't mean I'm blind, but I also don't waste precious time getting hot and bothered by anything the government does.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Why would anyone ever want to be exposed to something that might make them question the All Mighty Government? It's so much easyer to turn your brain off and just do what ever we are told.

[phee]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Why would anyone ever want to be exposed to something that might make them question the All Mighty Government? It's so much easyer to turn your brain off and just do what ever we are told.

(Funny you didn't feel that way when people were questioning the Bush Admin)

It had been a few days since I saw Obama hating on the board.... I am glad that everything is normal again...

[Homicidalheathen]

lol well said phee

no obama hating something must be amiss in the universe

[candyman]

Yeah well, I do the eye for an eye thing and...it will be a long time before people make fun of Obama on a scale that people had with Bush. As long as people act as hysterical when they see his picture as they do, and as long as people keep telling me that he is Black, they should really say African American though, I will continue to make fun of him.

Not to mention that this video include Bush in it...and it isn't making him look good either...maybe you should watch the whole video before making a comment about Obama hating...

[phee]

I think ALL POLITICIANS should be made fun of.....

[torn asunder]

(Funny you didn't feel that way when people were questioning the Bush Admin)

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

(Funny you didn't feel that way when people were questioning the Bush Admin)

It had been a few days since I saw Obama hating on the board.... I am glad that everything is normal again...

How exactly did I feel? You seem to know more about what was going on in my head than I do.

BTW, I watched/read everything that was posted about Bush, no matter ow off the wall it seemed. Some I believed and some I thought was complete bullshit. I never discount something before I found out what it was.

Now that I have addressed another of your attempts to derail a conversation and make it about what an evil bigoted person I am... we can get back to talking about this movie.

I am not sure I buy thier conclusions... and I do beleive the people making this movie are a bit paranoid... some of the things they bring to light are absolutly true while others are completly insane.

I really don't know what Obama's agenda is but I really don't think he has the American Peoples best interests in mind.

I don't like his idea of an armed and military trained civilian force that operates outside the Constitution. It reminds me too much of the USSRs Politicals or the German SS.

I don't like elected officials threatning to take legal action against anyone that dares speak out against Obama.

and much much more about Obama scares the hell out of me.

[ttogreh]

What he said first:

“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.” (September 12, 2008, Dover, N.H.)

What he did first:

By signing H.R. 2 into law, Obama happily signed onto the idea that smokers should pay for a $35 billion expansion of the State Children’s Health Insurance Plan (SCHIP). Cigarette taxes are going up 61 cents a pack starting April 1. Obama signed this bill knowing that the majority of smokers in the United States are working poor, and one in four lives below the federal poverty line.

I am not even going to bother with the movie. Its miasma of credible points and utter nuttiness makes it not worth my time. However, let's talk about the cigarette tax.

Smoking is bad for you. The theory of evolution has less evidence to support itself than the idea that smoking is bad for you. So, let's go from there.

People who are poor cannot pay for medical services as well as people who are not poor. So, when a sick poor person needs treatment for emphysema, or lung cancer, or heart disease, something else that is either made worse or caused by smoking, that cost needs to be spread around to everyone else.

Why? Because we already have universal health care. It is just massively inefficient in the way that we implement it. We wait for people to be too sick and too poor to pay for medical treatment before everyone else starts paying for it.

So... if we make cigarette smoking prohibitively expensive, poor people won't smoke as much, and will feel better because they are not smoking as much. At least, that is the theory. In reality, more and more smokers are going to find out how to make friends with Native Americans and get their tobacco from tax-free, native sources.

Already, there is a call to eliminate the native tax loophole. That will go over like a turd in the punchbowl. Sin taxes like this one just don't work.

Now, a tax increase on alcohol probably will work better, since drinking is more often done socially, at bars that are near drinker's homes. Cigarettes are smoked when a smoker wants them, and are bought days or weeks ahead of time.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

the problem I have with the tobacco taxes are many fold.

1. It's a tax on the poor.

2. The moneys raised are going to be used to fund a children's health care system. Seems nice.. until you realize the number of new smokers goes down every year and has been going down for about 30 years. How is this going to be funded when the numbers of smokers being taxed can no longer fund the program?

3. Tobacco tax have as yet to ever get to where they were meant to go. Not with the Nurse's Union in Detroit suing the State of Michigan to get all of it... they have to deal with Cancer patients... so all the money from the Tobacco settlements should go to them?

4. It's a tax on the poor.

5. See #1 and #4

[candyman]

I am not even going to bother with the movie. Its miasma of credible points and utter nuttiness makes it not worth my time. However, let's talk about the cigarette tax.

Smoking is bad for you. The theory of evolution has less evidence to support itself than the idea that smoking is bad for you. So, let's go from there.

People who are poor cannot pay for medical services as well as people who are not poor. So, when a sick poor person needs treatment for emphysema, or lung cancer, or heart disease, something else that is either made worse or caused by smoking, that cost needs to be spread around to everyone else.

Why? Because we already have universal health care. It is just massively inefficient in the way that we implement it. We wait for people to be too sick and too poor to pay for medical treatment before everyone else starts paying for it.

So... if we make cigarette smoking prohibitively expensive, poor people won't smoke as much, and will feel better because they are not smoking as much. At least, that is the theory. In reality, more and more smokers are going to find out how to make friends with Native Americans and get their tobacco from tax-free, native sources.

Already, there is a call to eliminate the native tax loophole. That will go over like a turd in the punchbowl. Sin taxes like this one just don't work.

Now, a tax increase on alcohol probably will work better, since drinking is more often done socially, at bars that are near drinker's homes. Cigarettes are smoked when a smoker wants them, and are bought days or weeks ahead of time.

Problem with that is that according to Mayo clinic and many other hospitals in other countries the most common burnden on the health care system when it comes to "things that are bad for you" are people with alcohol related problems. There are tons of alcohol related problems, enough that alcohol can be considered to be just as "bad" as cigarettes. However, if you go past the health care issue there is the issue of property damage, assault, rape, and deaths due to drunk driving. Those last issues are not caused by cigarettes.

Also, the facts that are used against cigarettes are no longer supported by the medical field. The cut-off date for the documentation that was used by the government was 2002. However, the only studies that made it before the date were already finished by 1997...there were many more that were finished but because they actually put time and effort into them they lasted many years past the 2002 date. Of those studies the majority of them found the issue of cigarettes, specifically second hand smoke, to be trivial at best. Clean air is a myth and the EPA will gladly tell you that. When they took readings in multiple bars and restaurants they found the "danger" or risk level to be 2 at the highest...and they START to worry at a level of 4.

Cigarettes and other tobacco products are legal, taxed, and heavily regulated. Alcohol, well, since prohibition frightened people they basically let alcohol run around like a loose whore. This whore is a dirty cunt that will advertise to anyone regardless of age and with no regard to safety...notice that only a very small percentage of alcohol adds include warnings and even those warnings are not very good.

I smoke...so what. Does it increase my CHANCES of having something bad happen to me? Yeah, but so does alcohol, tons of different foods, and being alive. I will take my chances with cigarettes because even without those chances from cigarettes...we don't really stand a chance anyways.

I will not change based on chance. It is stupid. When they find a way to exactly calculate WHEN, WHERE, and HOW everyone will die the I might think about changing. However, that will never happen and I already know that I will die but nobody, including me, knows when that death will occur and how it will happen.

So, unless we are shifting towards a non-free country, or unless people are unwilling to admit that death is certain and that millions of other common things can increase your chances or disease or sickness I can only conclude that this tax is bullshit. People have every right to do what they want.

Oh no look at me! Half a pack a day what a horrible person! Wait, did you hear me over the screaming, stumbling drunk people in the hall that are obviously in perfect health and are in complete control of their lives? Sorry I have to go they are starting to fight...

[candyman]

Oh, I forgot to add that cancer rates and the number of heart conditions continue to rise at a fast rate while the number of smokers drops. The claims that people made when they said that a decrease in smokers will make an increase in health have yet to become reality...but they are quickly showing that the claims were probably false and are just a bogus as all the claims that were made to pass prohibition and to ban marijuana. Yeah, almost all of the bans that were passed in the past work REALLY well...actually, they didn't because the "facts" used were just lies and twisted data.

Also, I hope this Children's Health Care System falls flat on its face. No ill will towards children on my part, just the idiots that run the system...I know alot of people that got "help" from the system and...it didn't help at all...and the sad part was the it was not a problem of money...it was a problem of people thinking that tossing money at sick people somehow cures them.

[ttogreh]

Tossing money at healthy people keeps people from getting sick. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

As for cancer rates, Coal plants spewing out mercury probably cause more cancer than smoking nowadays. We need to clean up the environment. Blaming a smoker shivering in a vestibule for cancer rates is idiotic.

[candyman]

Tossing money at healthy people keeps people from getting sick. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

As for cancer rates, Coal plants spewing out mercury probably cause more cancer than smoking nowadays. We need to clean up the environment. Blaming a smoker shivering in a vestibule for cancer rates is idiotic.

Tossing money at healthy people is stupid too. You don't need to toss it, a little goes a long way.

Coal plants have huge restrictions on them already. Now, there is an existing technology that will allow the plant to output the same amount of power while reducing the amount of work it needs to do...that means MUCH lower emissions. There is also a technology that will allow for 100% of emissions from plants that burn fossil fuels to be used and recycled into MORE energy. That would mean 0 emissions and that 100% of the product burned would be used to its fullest potential.

Now, for some damn reason the green movement has left these technologies crying in the back of the room. Why? They are VERY cheap to employ and would not require the plant to shut down, rebuild, or alter any systems. It would only cost a few thousand dollars per plant to just add the systems on. However, the government and other green movement people did not see fit to take advantage of this system and instead went to fund technologies that cost MORE money to the government and us. These other technologies also have a high cost of maintainance, high cost of installation, and a higher failure rate.

So, the reality is that smokers will continue to take an idiotic amount of abuse, alcohol will still run free, and the government and other "green" movements will continue to fund "green technologies" that, when compared to other very efficient systems, are only green because of the amount of money it will take to make them work.

[creatureofthenyte]

I think the cigarette tax was a good move.

A tax on the poor you say ?

I say its an incentive to quite smoking.

Then the poor can spend more of their money on more useful things like food, clothing, and shelter.

I'm if anyone who smokes takes offense to my opinions, I grew up in a household where both my parents smoked.

So I appologize if I'm sound alittle bitter towards it.

[candyman]

I think the cigarette tax was a good move.

A tax on the poor you say ?

I say its an incentive to quite smoking.

Then the poor can spend more of their money on more useful things like food, clothing, and shelter.

I'm if anyone who smokes takes offense to my opinions, I grew up in a household where both my parents smoked.

So I appologize if I'm sound alittle bitter towards it.

It is your right not to like it. However, it is the right of those that do smoke to do so. I grew up in a household where my entire family, extended too, drank like there was no tomorrow. Hell, I don't go to family get togethers anymore because I can't deal with the yelling, puking, screaming, crying, police, breaking shit, and then all the trips to the hospital or having to call the ambulance. Then there is highschool and college. All three of those experiences had me smoking, and everyone else drinking. I am still perfectly healthy, but I have to admit that I am mentally scarred by all that shit. I wan't "awesome" because I didn't drink.

Now I am being punished for doing something that I really do enjoy, didn't cost me much at all before, and has kept me "cool" when the stress hits and calms me down when I get pissed off...it also helps alot on long drives because smoking while driving hurts nobody...unlike my 5 friends that died in a damn drunk driving accident by a guy that had 4 previous DUI charges.

Sure, raise taxes on alcohol...but first I want to see ONE person start to give a shit about alcohol. ONE person...thats it...they need to admit that it harms the user, creates problems for those around the user, and that people that break the laws regarding alcohol should get more that a slap on the wrist that goes away after a few years. Then, only then they can bitch about smoking they way that they do. The way it is now I laugh every time someone says that cigarettes should be banned because they care...if they really cared they would CARE about EVERYTHING...which they don't.

[Soulrev]

It is your right not to like it. However, it is the right of those that do smoke to do so. I grew up in a household where my entire family, extended too, drank like there was no tomorrow. Hell, I don't go to family get togethers anymore because I can't deal with the yelling, puking, screaming, crying, police, breaking shit, and then all the trips to the hospital or having to call the ambulance. Then there is highschool and college. All three of those experiences had me smoking, and everyone else drinking. I am still perfectly healthy, but I have to admit that I am mentally scarred by all that shit. I wan't "awesome" because I didn't drink.

Now I am being punished for doing something that I really do enjoy, didn't cost me much at all before, and has kept me "cool" when the stress hits and calms me down when I get pissed off...it also helps alot on long drives because smoking while driving hurts nobody...unlike my 5 friends that died in a damn drunk driving accident by a guy that had 4 previous DUI charges.

Sure, raise taxes on alcohol...but first I want to see ONE person start to give a shit about alcohol. ONE person...thats it...they need to admit that it harms the user, creates problems for those around the user, and that people that break the laws regarding alcohol should get more that a slap on the wrist that goes away after a few years. Then, only then they can bitch about smoking they way that they do. The way it is now I laugh every time someone says that cigarettes should be banned because they care...if they really cared they would CARE about EVERYTHING...which they don't.

Yes, with that line of thinking, one could say "Well, if we raise the price of alcohol people won't be able to afford to get drunk anymore and we'll have less problems!"

Hurray!!!!!

[candyman]

Yes, with that line of thinking, one could say "Well, if we raise the price of alcohol people won't be able to afford to get drunk anymore and we'll have less problems!"

Hurray!!!!!

Yeah, I have this great idea for getting people to at least stop with the drunk driving...well, maybe not a great idea but probably more ideas, it's just one, than any government group has come up with.

So, every state has counties...and those counties have populations. Now, they could take the population of each county and set a limit for the number of allowed DUIs according to population size. If the county issues more DUI charges than the limit was at then the tax on alcohol would be raised in the state where that county is.

Yeah, it is probably a shitty idea that doesn't make much sense but...it is a start. I mean the list of DUI charges that every state has is huge. On that list are many people that have multiple charges when they should only be allowed one and the next time they get a bigger sentence...like a little sit and reflect on being a dumbass time. Also, why do DUI charges expire? I got a smoking ticket for being too close to a large brick wall and that will never go away...not like I was doing anything wrong but still.

This...

...is what highschool was like for me

and I never though I would say that I am glad my friends died but...

...it could have been that

I still want to kill the fucking driver that hit them...but being a part time fire fighter he gets a free pass...no they didn't fire him

[ttogreh]

Sadly, Drinking is too popular, and smoking is going the way of the dodo. It's just that simple. I will not say that drinking is harmless. It isn't. It is a big factor as to why 35,000 people a year die on our roads.

It's just too popular, and smoking lost its coolness some time in the 1990s.

So, taxing a dwindling sin is what we get for not having a reasonable health system.

[asphyxian_doll]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Why would anyone ever want to be exposed to something that might make them question the All Mighty Government? It's so much easyer to turn your brain off and just do what ever we are told.

I don't turn off my brain and just do whatever I'm told.

I also don't get bent out of shape and shove a stick up my ass because of everything I don't agree with and expect others to agree with me.

I'm not an armchair crusader either.

I agree with Obama and his tax on Tobacco.

Sorry.

The government has always been imperfect, and since it will NEVER meet your standards...I suggest you let it go and deal with cigarettes being expensive....or stop buying them.

Edited April 4, 2009 by asphyxian_doll

[candyman]

Yeah funny story...today I am bitching about alcohol and...*drum roll*...some bitch fall off the roof of a party house and lands right on some guy on the ground floor! Ok maybe it isn't that funny because she died and it looks like he broke his neck...but I really don't care. Now I hear that the parents are going to sue the owner of the house for not having better railings on the three story house.

Good thing the general public is wise on health issues and they don't base their "facts" off of stuff that people told them...

Here is the really good news...NO CIGARETTE TAX WHERE I BUY MINE! YEAH! Also, the people of my great county once again kicked the smoking ban down...a vote of 80% for NO was expected since, well, that is what has happened the other three times. Now, if they would just allow people to vote on the tax...maybe the riots would stop in Madison and Milwaukee. But, letting us vote would be extreme...something other than the desired outcome might be voted for! Oh no! Damn why do I have to miss the Harley march on Madison?!?! I want to kick some hippy and democrat ass!

[asphyxian_doll]

Yeah funny story...today I am bitching about alcohol and...*drum roll*...some bitch fall off the roof of a party house and lands right on some guy on the ground floor! Ok maybe it isn't that funny because she died and it looks like he broke his neck...but I really don't care. Now I hear that the parents are going to sue the owner of the house for not having better railings on the three story house.

Good thing the general public is wise on health issues and they don't base their "facts" off of stuff that people told them...

Here is the really good news...NO CIGARETTE TAX WHERE I BUY MINE! YEAH! Also, the people of my great county once again kicked the smoking ban down...a vote of 80% for NO was expected since, well, that is what has happened the other three times. Now, if they would just allow people to vote on the tax...maybe the riots would stop in Madison and Milwaukee. But, letting us vote would be extreme...something other than the desired outcome might be voted for! Oh no! Damn why do I have to miss the Harley march on Madison?!?! I want to kick some hippy and democrat ass!

Cigarettes should be outlawed.

Now tobacco itself without any of the additives is fine.

Someday cigarettes as they are produced and distributed will be completely vaporized....

Someday....because I said it should.(lol there goes my humor....bahaha...ok no. <3)

Now growing tobacco, drying and rolling your own ciggys with good paper is just fine....

heh....but of course the all American couch potato prefers driving to go pick up a pack of good ol' cancer sticks.

This is all...again...my bias opinion.

So...no offense to the smoker, only the distributor.

I like to say....

I know its your right to smoke.

It is also my right to breath clean air...

And these tobacco companies enable addiction with their additives...

If they were to produce pure high quality tobacco products...we wouldn't have these problems.

Obamas tobacco tax is the best thing since bubble yum.

Edited April 4, 2009 by asphyxian_doll