Voices of the nation...

[CixWicked]

So recently I showed up at a local bar, and there was a live, acoustic band up playing. Being the only black man in the bar, wearing a lamb of god shirt, I'm not surprised they actually spoke to me. I told that I had gone there for Karaoke, and they said. "Well we'll have to get you up to sing..." Long into short, there was a girl there who loved what I did. She asked for my band myspace which I gave her.

She checked the myspace and her response was:

I love whatcha guys are doing! It's different and that's always a good thing. The only thing about being in a heavy rock band is that it's sometimes is hard to really show what kind of voice you have. I think that's the only thing I was missing when I heard your songs, especially after hearing what you did the other nite. =)

My guitarist was offended, like she was saying that there was no such thing as good hard rock (Or metal, as I consider us to be).

My Question to you, my Dark Friends... How much does vocal quality and/or lyrics matter in a song. (Of course we're not talking about songs -without- singing... One of my favorite songs in the world is 'Seven Plagues' by Download... no vocals at all.).

Would your favorite band be the same for you with a different vocilist or the same singer?

Also, do you think when someone joins an established band s/he should completely disregard all the preexisting vocals/lyrics or no?

Can good vocals enhance bad music? What about vice versa (Can good music enhance bad vocals?)

Cix

[Scary Guy]

In the case of Black Metal yes, good music can make me stand bad vocals. I like melodic metal with harmony, not a bunch of screaming.

I think one of my favorite bands is Fear Factory which can do both screaming and singing. Screaming does have it's place but it shouldn't be the entire song.

For fucks sake lets kill the vocoder already. It stopped being cool when Cher did it in "Believe".

Industrial is different, as is black metal unfortunately. Screaming or screwed up sound from vocals is almost expected.

Also rap & modern R&B are just annoying, as is the numetal that tries to take elements of those and blend them in.

[CixWicked]

In the case of Black Metal yes, good music can make me stand bad vocals. I like melodic metal with harmony, not a bunch of screaming.

I think one of my favorite bands is Fear Factory which can do both screaming and singing. Screaming does have it's place but it shouldn't be the entire song.

For fucks sake lets kill the vocoder already. It stopped being cool when Cher did it in "Believe".

Industrial is different, as is black metal unfortunately. Screaming or screwed up sound from vocals is almost expected.

Also rap & modern R&B are just annoying, as is the numetal that tries to take elements of those and blend them in.

Innnnnteresssting...

[phee]

Vocals can either make or break a song.... if they compliment the feeling of the music thats a plus.... but several times I will be listening to an awesome song, getting into the music in a really good way.... then the singer opens his mouth.... and either the voice or the lyrics clash with the feeling of the music so much.... I turn it off.

[candyman]

A voice can do more for music than anything. People claim that some vocals are not "music"...but that is not the case. Depending on a whole lot of other points besides mood, subject matter, and genre the voice can tell a story. A clear and beautiful voice is just as great and valuable as a voice with a piercing shriek or a brutal, gruttal sound.

Although I am biased when it comes to Cradle of Filth, Dani does have a beautiful vocal range. He can go from brutal black metal to a voice that one would expect from a lighter rock band. His combination of haunting femal vocals and scathing male vocals is something that brings them higher than the rest. Sure, they are not considered pure but even with my respect of "pure" metal bands I have to say that CoF is on the right path with their vocal oddities.

I would also like to make mention of Les Claypool and his vocal stylings. I know that many of the people I know that claim to be his fans would not listen at all if he did not play the bass the way that he does.

[phee]

I like a lot of insturmental music as well though

[Der Nister]

I can't stress enough how bad vocals and or bad lyrics can quickly kill what started out as a good sounding song. To this day I avoid bands where their vocalist (they aren't singers) do nothing more than yell/scream or sound like they gargle with broken shards of glass (anyone remember black metal bands - sorry, not for my ears). And lyrics are so important, either learn to write (not meaning you or anyone here) but if the lyrics suck it doesn't matter how good the singer is, suck ass lyrics are annoying.

I like a lot of insturmental music as well though

+ 100

[CixWicked]

I can't stress enough how bad vocals and or bad lyrics can quickly kill what started out as a good sounding song. To this day I avoid bands where their vocalist (they aren't singers) do nothing more than yell/scream or sound like they gargle with broken shards of glass (anyone remember black metal bands - sorry, not for my ears). And lyrics are so important, either learn to write (not meaning you or anyone here) but if the lyrics suck it doesn't matter how good the singer is, suck ass lyrics are annoying.

Here in lies my biggest problem. It takes me a while to write lyrics, cause I can't stand bad lyrics. HATE THEM... My band get's pretty pissed at me when, after a month I still don't have lyrics to certain songs, but I'd rather babble on a mic than to sing sad lyrics... such as:

With an Iron Clad Fist, I wake up and french kiss the morning....

Huh? What?

Or the love song everyone was going nutz about a few years back:

"I've been waiting on you for a long time

fuelin up on heartaches and cheap whine

I aint heard from you in 3 damn nights "

3 WHOLE NIGHTS?!?! HOLY SHIT, I'm amazed you even remember what each other look like.

Cix

Edited April 8, 2009 by CixWicked

[Der Nister]

"I've been waiting on you for a long time

fuelin up on heartaches and cheap whine

I aint heard from you in 3 damn nights "

Yea that one................vomit city all the way.

I take a long time writing lyrics myself or sometimes I just say fuck it, it's my music and I don't have to write any lyrics.

And, if someone wants to bitch about how long it takes I say - you do it faster and then get back with me.

Haste often makes waste and it's been my experiance that after you rush something together you often listen back after a while and say, "shit - that could be done better - it needs tweaking" so, might as well try your best first time around.

[CixWicked]

Yea that one................vomit city all the way.

I take a long time writing lyrics myself or sometimes I just say fuck it, it's my music and I don't have to write any lyrics.

And, if someone wants to bitch about how long it takes I say - you do it faster and then get back with me.

Haste often makes waste and it's been my experiance that after you rush something together you often listen back after a while and say, "shit - that could be done better - it needs tweaking" so, might as well try your best first time around.

Oh absolutely.

The sad part is, it seems that the only person in the band who cares about the lyrical content... is the vocalist. The rest of the gusy don't listen, and don't care aboiut lyrics. And I'm a high presence vocalist, meaning our songs tend to get arranged around what I sing... and the guys take ques from me... but they have no idea about what I"m singing about.

NONE of them could recite lyrics, unless they actually sing backup...

Sad really.

Cix

[Der Nister]

It should all be important to everyone.

From the lyrics to something as simple as a drum roll. A drummer that has bad timing on their (for example) snare fills is going to have a neg effect on the song and the entire band.

Just like a shit producer could make you sound total amature and an awesome producer makes you sound like a million dollars.

So IMO everything matters, everything makes a difference. I have spent time with 'musicians' that have made me look bad because I was always covering their mistakes by adjusting my playing. Those times taught me a lot.

Anywhoz.....back on the subject - if your bandmates aren't helping to write lyrics tell 'em to cool off or start helping out.

[Scales]

I don't think I'm too great a singer, but a decent writer. I don't believe in rushing making songs. But I think you can write good lyrics to a song fast if you have writing experience and your writing about things in your immediate life (that's my defense for doing it).

These cookie-cutter, vocoded Pop musicians and the huge base of fans they have annoy me greatly. I remember back in the 90's when I grew up on pop music before I became a child of rock and metal, then discovered even more genres.. but from what I remember, those women could sing.

I don't like bands changing singers, but some bands like ACDC I think pulled it off alright.

When someone joins a band if they disregard all the old stuff I would guess that'd be a band decision.

I think everything in a song matters to little degrees, and changes the mood of the song. Good vocals could help bad music, bad vocals could hurt good music, ect. Its a learning experience.

My two cents.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

My Question to you, my Dark Friends... How much does vocal quality and/or lyrics matter in a song. (Of course we're not talking about songs -without- singing... One of my favorite songs in the world is 'Seven Plagues' by Download... no vocals at all.).

Would your favorite band be the same for you with a different vocilist or the same singer?

Also, do you think when someone joins an established band s/he should completely disregard all the preexisting vocals/lyrics or no?

Can good vocals enhance bad music? What about vice versa (Can good music enhance bad vocals?)

Cix

1) Lyrics don't have to make any sense whatsoever in a literal sense - they only have to work when sung. Ever heard "Land of a Thousand Dances"? "Na, na na na na, na na na na, na na na, na na na" is sheer brilliance in the context of that song. As far as vocal quality, I prefer melodic singing, but there's no denying the greatness of people like Johan Hegg, Nergal, Phil Anselmo, Zack de la Rocha...or DGN faves like Ogre and Al Jourgensen.

2) My fave band is U2; while The Edge certainly has the technical ability to handle the lead vocals, no one could take Bono's place.

3) Disregard the lyrics? No...but all sides would be better served by doing something at least a little bit different musically.

4) Yes...and yes.

...well, that's what I got.

[pomba gira]

I can't stress enough how bad vocals and or bad lyrics can quickly kill what started out as a good sounding song. To this day I avoid bands where their vocalist (they aren't singers) do nothing more than yell/scream or sound like they gargle with broken shards of glass (anyone remember black metal bands - sorry, not for my ears). And lyrics are so important, either learn to write (not meaning you or anyone here) but if the lyrics suck it doesn't matter how good the singer is, suck ass lyrics are annoying.

+100

I remember the first time I heard Cradle of Filth... thinking, "great, my two least favorite vocal styles in one song- toneless caterwauling and belch-talking". Metallica's godlikeness is in large part due to their strong lyrics and the fact that Hetfield can actually sing, and gets such a range of genuine-feeling emotion into his singing. And a big reason I don't like most mainstream rap is the utter inanity of the lyrical content. I mean, how many songs can you "write" about what a badass you are, how much $$ you have, and how many women you abuse/exploit?

Then there are singers who aren't necessarily "bad", but have voices that are just annoying to me. Serj Tankian (played incessantly on Sirius Octane) sounds like a stage magician... or Dr. Orpheus on the Venture Brothers. I've never been able to appreciate the Cure because I find Robert Smith's vapid whining so irritating. Same with Smashing Pumpkins... Corgan has the annoying nasal whine down to a science.

[Oh_My_Goth]

If vocals are involved, then yes, they should be appealing... Lyric content is not all that important in most cases, but it is nice if they mean something..