Warrentless Wire Taps

[Der Nister]

For the same reason you took a question as an assumption.

Now, can you actually answer the questions I have posed rather than try to deflect the conversation?

Wow - so by my asking you a question (which is not how people assume things) you label my question as an assumption and then, you refuse to answer it and on top of that you sling mud at me.

Is that how you prefer to prove your 'point'? Or am I assuming so by asking you a question?

Seems to me people ask questions because they are trying to clarify things and are not trying to assume anything.

If I am wrong with my last statement here would someone please explain to me how I am wrong.

Seems to me people ask questions because they are trying to clarify things and are not trying to assume anything.

[Der Nister]

BTW - I find it very difficult to discuss anything with someone that gives me the impression they have a negative agenda (in regards to their attitude towards others).

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and still, you cant answer the question. Just keep harping about a non issue. deflection. Can you come back to the topic now?

[phee]

If this is the question:

why is it OK when Obama defends it and expands it?

Then the assumption you are making is that its okay... and you are asking why it is okay.

I don't think its okay.

What makes it okay with you?

[Der Nister]

Just keep harping about a non issue. deflection.

Make yourself look petty - I'm fine with that.

Onto the topic - I am NOT fine with wire tapping.

There - I said it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It's not OK with me. I would like to talk about it. I am shocked that no one is actually screaming mad about this. If this would have happened one year ago, there would be page long rants posted all over this board about it. You could see Rage and Indignity in ever word. It's not happening. I want to know why. The most passion I have seen for this total invasion or our Rights is "I don't think its okay." You could have put a after it. Except for Rev. who actually showed some emotion response.

All I want to know is why that is. Do you understand my motives now enough to deem me worthy an answer?

[Slogo]

as far as i can tell everyone upset about this, so please get over it

[phee]

It's not OK with me. I would like to talk about it. I am shocked that no one is actually screaming mad about this. If this would have happened one year ago, there would be page long rants posted all over this board about it. You could see Rage and Indignity in ever word. It's not happening. I want to know why. The most passion I have seen for this total invasion or our Rights is "I don't think its okay." You could have put a after it. Except for Rev. who actually showed some emotion response.

All I want to know is why that is. Do you understand my motives now enough to deem me worthy an answer?

Just curious then... why did you say it was okay?

why is it OK when Obama defends it and expands it?

[torn asunder]

Just curious then... why did you say it was okay?

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

[Der Nister]

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

+1

[Shade Everdark]

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

Trolling is probably the word you're looking for.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

So, now it's some mental illness to not agree with everything the President and his staff are doing? When did that happen? There have always been people who did not like what any given president was doing at the time. Even just days into his first term. The last President was a fine example of this. As were... every one I can think of.

Have you not read how wide a brush the DHS is using to label people as extremists? All war vets? Anyone that is anti-abortion? Anyone that supports a 3rd party canidate?

torn, that makes you subject to these wiretaps.

[torn asunder]

So, now it's some mental illness to not agree with everything the President and his staff are doing? When did that happen? There have always been people who did not like what any given president was doing at the time. Even just days into his first term. The last President was a fine example of this. As were... every one I can think of.

Have you not read how wide a brush the DHS is using to label people as extremists? All war vets? Anyone that is anti-abortion? Anyone that supports a 3rd party canidate?

torn, that makes you subject to these wiretaps.

i'm well aware of that, which is why i have an abundance of tinfoil in my house!!

i fully support your right to question, or even disagree with things of this nature, but holy crap - it's been 4 months! give the man some time!

i mean, if you're going 120mph down the highway, and decide that you need to be going the opposite direction, do you just suddenly crank the steering wheel all the way? no, you slow down first, in order for you to be able to safely change direction. i know it's a poor example, but i think it makes the point.

as for the "extremist" report, i've read a few articles, and i see that many are taking exception to it, including many state reps, and are asking for investigations into it. it was a poorly worded, poorly thought-out report, albeit one with good intentions. it needs to be revised, and i believe that issue is being addressed through proper political channels. i may be wrong, however.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

but he is pushing down harder on the gas, not the brakes.

[phee]

I actually like people speaking out against stuff in the government they don't like... I encourage it. The only issue I had was being included in a group just by the very nature of the question of those who are presumed "okay" with it.

[ttogreh]

Shade, I have refrained from saying that. I feel that that accusation, of "trolling", to be tantamount to forum board treason. If you were not nearly as respected, well... I refuse to speculate on the administrative actions of which I have no purview.

This is not to say that I disagree with you, but I cannot support you.

[asphyxian_doll]

I have responded twice within this thread... and even stated that "it's not" how is that silent?

You're not getting bent out of shape and insulting people.

That's what I am under the impression is his perception on "silence".

[torn asunder]

but he is pushing down harder on the gas, not the brakes.

in every single arena in which he's involved?

(honest question, as i don't have a lot of time to keep tabs on all of obama's policy-making and executive actions)

i will say this, i think stepping on the gas to rush financial infrastructure support was a good move - the lack of control/requirements/accountability really sucked, but i do admire his relatively decisive action, vs. bush's apparent administration of inaction.

of course, i will also admit to being misinformed, if i don't fully understand everything.

[asphyxian_doll]

Wow - so by my asking you a question (which is not how people assume things) you label my question as an assumption and then, you refuse to answer it and on top of that you sling mud at me.

Is that how you prefer to prove your 'point'? Or am I assuming so by asking you a question?

Seems to me people ask questions because they are trying to clarify things and are not trying to assume anything.

If I am wrong with my last statement here would someone please explain to me how I am wrong.

BTW - I find it very difficult to discuss anything with someone that gives me the impression they have a negative agenda (in regards to their attitude towards others).

and still, you cant answer the question. Just keep harping about a non issue. deflection. Can you come back to the topic now?

If this is the question:

Then the assumption you are making is that its okay... and you are asking why it is okay.

I don't think its okay.

What makes it okay with you?

Make yourself look petty - I'm fine with that.

Onto the topic - I am NOT fine with wire tapping.

There - I said it.

It's not OK with me. I would like to talk about it. I am shocked that no one is actually screaming mad about this. If this would have happened one year ago, there would be page long rants posted all over this board about it. You could see Rage and Indignity in ever word. It's not happening. I want to know why. The most passion I have seen for this total invasion or our Rights is "I don't think its okay." You could have put a after it. Except for Rev. who actually showed some emotion response.

All I want to know is why that is. Do you understand my motives now enough to deem me worthy an answer?

lol,...what does this have to do with Obama or wiretapping? This seems to be a "right fight"

Which is...inevitably...wrong in of itself.

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

+1

So, now it's some mental illness to not agree with everything the President and his staff are doing? When did that happen? There have always been people who did not like what any given president was doing at the time. Even just days into his first term. The last President was a fine example of this. As were... every one I can think of.

Have you not read how wide a brush the DHS is using to label people as extremists? All war vets? Anyone that is anti-abortion? Anyone that supports a 3rd party canidate?

torn, that makes you subject to these wiretaps.

I have found that Obama is doing much more GOOD than bad. And of course, someone who ISN'T on drugs, or isn't biased to the point of asshatery will see this. Its as bright as fucking day. And Torn....I chose to laugh at these topics that gaf likes to start, I found his spin doctoring and attempt at belittling people on this board more of a source of entertainment than anything.

Edited April 17, 2009 by asphyxian_doll

[asphyxian_doll]

I actually like people speaking out against stuff in the government they don't like... I encourage it. The only issue I had was being included in a group just by the very nature of the question of those who are presumed "okay" with it.

+1,

this is why I have no respect for people who get bent out of shape because they are such crusaders, that anyone who disagrees or doesn't share their passion, is wrong, deserves to be belittled, or is ignorant. They may have a legitimate gripe....Gaf usually does, but the wiretapping isn't really the issue now is it? I don't think so. I think that it is fine to speak out against things you do not agree with, but not to expect others to agree. They should not be expected to take up the sword right along side with you. Its unrealistic and unhealthy to stress so much, and put so much of your time, effort, and LIFE into ANYTHING of ANY NATURE like this, and to also expect everyone around you to agree with you and do so as well. Not EVERYONE will crusade alongside with you no matter HOW RIGHT YOU MAY BE. Its a matter of FACT.

If someone disagrees with you, and that gets you off...gives you a high because you now have the opportunity to spin doctor and right fight to feel special and emotionally dominant(as delusional as you may be to actually believe that you are emotionally dominant due to right fighting and spin doctoring, its rampant and I see it a lot in these topics).

So be it. To each their own.

Edited April 17, 2009 by asphyxian_doll

[candyman]

he didn't say it was ok - he was asking why everyone was acting as if it were...

and i have a single question for gaf, and thought this thread might as well be the place i ask it -

i've been reading all of your recent posts about things like "the great uniter fails again", and all of these negative threads about obama, and i have to ask this, in semi-seriousness...

are you on drugs? i mean, seriously - the man has been officially in office just over 4 months. do you honestly believe he can reverse the shit from the last two terms that quickly? are you that zealous about your disdain/hatred for the man (not the person, but the "office"), that because he can't perform miracles, you're going to do your best to railroad him without giving him a chance?

you're either on drugs, brainwashed, or the sun has baked the common sense right out of you. i think you're officially become a caricature at this point - if i see a post from you in this forum, i already know it'll be bashing the president and his cabinet in the worst possible way you can. it's been 4 freakin' months, dude, lighten up already!

i haven't decided yet if i think it's funny, or sad.

Well, although I do agree that his comments are a bit harsh I can also see where he is coming from.

Now, I never liked Bush just like I never liked any president, or will like any. However, the crap that people were giving Bush went far beyond anything that people have, or probably will throw at Obama. I for one am mad, and sad for, the American public that was doing that to Bush...he may have deserved some shit but never that much or at that level. Now, it seems that Gaf supported Bush so you can see how he has the right to be critical.

Yeah, Obama has not been in for long and he can't change everything at once. However, his taxing is more than a bit questionable and being critical of the president is completely normal. In fact, give him all the shit you can because IF he does well in office then he will come out looking even better.

Following all the hype and crap before he got elected...Obama has something to answer for...and with the comments he made he should probably do things quickly lest he suffer the same fate as Bush...

[Slogo]

+1,

this is why I have no respect for people who get bent out of shape because they are such crusaders, that anyone who disagrees or doesn't share their passion, is wrong, deserves to be belittled, or is ignorant. They may have a legitimate gripe....Gaf usually does, but the wiretapping isn't really the issue now is it? I don't think so. I think that it is fine to speak out against things you do not agree with, but not to expect others to agree. They should not be expected to take up the sword right along side with you. Its unrealistic and unhealthy to stress so much, and put so much of your time, effort, and LIFE into ANYTHING of ANY NATURE like this, and to also expect everyone around you to agree with you and do so as well. Not EVERYONE will crusade alongside with you no matter HOW RIGHT YOU MAY BE. Its a matter of FACT.

If someone disagrees with you, and that gets you off...gives you a high because you now have the opportunity to spin doctor and right fight to feel special and emotionally dominant(as delusional as you may be to actually believe that you are emotionally dominant due to right fighting and spin doctoring, its rampant and I see it a lot in these topics).

So be it. To each their own.

[asphyxian_doll]

Well, although I do agree that his comments are a bit harsh I can also see where he is coming from.

Now, I never liked Bush just like I never liked any president, or will like any. However, the crap that people were giving Bush went far beyond anything that people have, or probably will throw at Obama. I for one am mad, and sad for, the American public that was doing that to Bush...he may have deserved some shit but never that much or at that level. Now, it seems that Gaf supported Bush so you can see how he has the right to be critical.bush did cocain when he was going to college, ..... I think he deserved all he got, but in some cases, he was retarded...and therefore deserves some sympathy. But then again....that's still questionable. I don't think Bush is as innocent as his supporters WISH he is.

Yeah, Obama has not been in for long and he can't change everything at once. However, his taxing is more than a bit questionable and being critical of the president is completely normal. In fact, give him all the shit you can because IF he does well in office then he will come out looking even better. good point

Following all the hype and crap before he got elected...Obama has something to answer for...and with the comments he made he should probably do things quickly lest he suffer the same fate as Bush...

[candyman]

Never said he was innocent...nobody is. As for the past who really gives a shit. Obama had some things in his past, and present, there were nasty too but all that got pushed off to the side as "racism" or some other lame excuse. If people are going to go after a persons past based on their position they sure as hell better do it for the next person coming in.

I was merely saying that even if Bush did things wrong and was an ass...it doesn't give leave for others, in this case many others, to do the same. In fact it makes those others equally stupid because they went down to the other persons level. Two wrongs don't make a right yet it seemed every effort was made by anti-Bush people to do the opposite.

I am an asshole so I know what should be done and how far it should go. I would treat only a select few as badly as some people treated Bush. Yes, these people are screwing up and are wasting my time and money. However, things will settle on their own and charging into something like people did with Bush only created more hell than was needed and now we have to deal with the fucking mess. It would have all been solved with a little dignity on the part of the people...but no that is too much to ask for today. There have been worse leaders, and worse times yet the people had to go and top this all off by having a global hissy fit which screwed us as far a foreign relations goes. Now, nobody will take us seriously, every thinks that whatever we do is evil and covert, and the country is divided beyond repair.

I was waiting for all these civil rights movements to shoot past their goal and instead of being equal they want to be better...and although this thread is not about that subject, the people in threads like this show what is really happening.

Sure Bush messed up...but did we really have to reply by finishing it off with a major clusterfuck? Bring back Kennedy and see how he would do in the world of today...he would probably screw up even worse than Bush considering he started the ball rolling with terrible foreign relations...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, you hold the fact that Bush did Cocaine in college against him? Even though he has publically stated that it was mistake?

What about Obama's use of cocaine is school and his admission that it was "something you did when you ahd enough cash"?