School Uniforms

[Head Wreck]

personaly i wear a suit to work. its expected of me, and you know, it has made my job a heck of a lot easier

people notice that i know my shit and not just dismiss me as a lackey cable monkey, its sad but true, but the last laugh was allways mine.

for example, medical section is the most gradist section i have ever encountered

as its an aukward job i am assigned rollout team leader. so i don a shirt and suit (no tie though... old habits from a machine shop and an accident in the shop i qualified at).

top of the self imagined roost of importance were the MD's personal secretaries

so as usual, being fairly knowlagable and good at simplifying things for the non literate i go in and start organising thier files and requirements for the move to the GSI system, and aranging stability and security tests on thier little bits of unique software. as i have come to the team knowlagable and volonteered for testing duties and dry runs (pigging awful duties of fail), the rest of the team often sought out advice on things and procedures, reinforcing thier belief that i was quite high ranking.

they really didnt know how to react when they asked me thier job outside the GSI, lowest level worker, document ferret. they couldnt stop all chatter to me as they had excepted me as one of them

but they realy didnt want to talk to a groundfeeder either. i chuckled. the last laugh was very much mine. i never seen someone squirm so much sitting perfectly still.

i had long hair

i wore outlandish clothes. i never had a job or promotion when i did that. so i wear my corporate face for 8 hours a day, talk the tlk walk the walk, and you know. i'm actually afording to be able to visit my wife more than i expected, i enjoy the trust and responsibility set in me to be given discression to my casework.

unlike the long haired metal/goth/emo button pushers that are still stuck in document ferreting for years.

i know i am me. i need not advertise it, because i couldnt care less, i have beathovens 9th on loop in my head and smile to myself every time i see something that wakes my very odd sense of humour. i have inner reinforced to my individuality, i need to external reinforcement that might encroach on other peoples teritorial perogative. and my life is simpler for it leaving me the freedom to swim with the sharks and living the life i choose for the other 16 hours i am not in the office, even in the office i admit sometimes my thoughts turn inside on great music, plans for the next trip to detroit, my life outside of work, so its not 8 hours of denial of oneself. just 8 hours of alone "me time" to ponder things, just as if i were resting in my smoking jaket and pith helmet at night with a copy of the beano and a cup of hot co-co

[phee]

I agree with the welsh dude....

The "children" are going there to learn not to be noticed and show off to one another... thats what college is for.... right?

[Slogo]

"The idea is that if kids wear uniforms to school, it helps to keep order. Hey! Don't these schools do enough damage makin' all these children THINK alike? Now they're gonna get 'em to LOOK alike, too? And it's not even a new idea; I first saw it in old newsreels from the 1930s, but it was hard to understand, because the narration was in German." - George Carlin

I was so going to post that but you beat me to the punch

That man was a genius

[Shade Everdark]

personaly i wear a suit to work. its expected of me, and you know, it has made my job a heck of a lot easier

people notice that i know my shit and not just dismiss me as a lackey cable monkey, its sad but true, but the last laugh was allways mine.

for example, medical section is the most gradist section i have ever encountered

as its an aukward job i am assigned rollout team leader. so i don a shirt and suit (no tie though... old habits from a machine shop and an accident in the shop i qualified at).

top of the self imagined roost of importance were the MD's personal secretaries

so as usual, being fairly knowlagable and good at simplifying things for the non literate i go in and start organising thier files and requirements for the move to the GSI system, and aranging stability and security tests on thier little bits of unique software. as i have come to the team knowlagable and volonteered for testing duties and dry runs (pigging awful duties of fail), the rest of the team often sought out advice on things and procedures, reinforcing thier belief that i was quite high ranking.

they really didnt know how to react when they asked me thier job outside the GSI, lowest level worker, document ferret. they couldnt stop all chatter to me as they had excepted me as one of them

but they realy didnt want to talk to a groundfeeder either. i chuckled. the last laugh was very much mine. i never seen someone squirm so much sitting perfectly still.

i had long hair

i wore outlandish clothes. i never had a job or promotion when i did that. so i wear my corporate face for 8 hours a day, talk the tlk walk the walk, and you know. i'm actually afording to be able to visit my wife more than i expected, i enjoy the trust and responsibility set in me to be given discression to my casework.

unlike the long haired metal/goth/emo button pushers that are still stuck in document ferreting for years.

i know i am me. i need not advertise it, because i couldnt care less, i have beathovens 9th on loop in my head and smile to myself every time i see something that wakes my very odd sense of humour. i have inner reinforced to my individuality, i need to external reinforcement that might encroach on other peoples teritorial perogative. and my life is simpler for it leaving me the freedom to swim with the sharks and living the life i choose for the other 16 hours i am not in the office, even in the office i admit sometimes my thoughts turn inside on great music, plans for the next trip to detroit, my life outside of work, so its not 8 hours of denial of oneself. just 8 hours of alone "me time" to ponder things, just as if i were resting in my smoking jaket and pith helmet at night with a copy of the beano and a cup of hot co-co

So, because I have long hair, I don't deserve a better job?

[StormKnight (1)]

I am all about uniforms...

I was not all that fond of the idea before I grew up & had a child of my own, but now I see the point.. Children require structure, and the least amount of distraction possible in school.

Uniforms don't take anything from your individuality.. You make your place with your personality, not your fashion sense... When I go to my sons school, I see children who are very unique from each other, not little drones..

Anyone here who has meet my son knows that no uniform could ever change the fact that he is a very unique individual.

He strikes me as someone very capable and very bright, and actually has a sense of self at such a young age, even from the first time I met him. Definitely a pride point for you two as parents.

Individuality is not in the clothes, it is in the person. Even as an adult, I run around the hospital looking dressed in pajamas (scrubs, a kind of uniform,) that make me look like everyone else. No expression of personality outwardly. I have nothing outwardly appearing on myself that would lead you to believe I have been into this scene. (Studies have shown that patients want to interface with someone looking professional.) Every patient I have ever had would never doubt that there is something that sets me and my personality apart from my colleagues that makes me identifiable to them. In a good way.

"Yeah, could that weird doctor come back again? I like him."

I try my best to look past clothing, (hence I will be the first to admit, if all my friends were in one room at the same time, we would look like a Torg/Rifts/multi-genre adventure party.) However, a lot of people don't. And usually they are the ones we have to communicate with effectively the first time to be successful. I want to make sure kids are successful.

BTW, here is what I mean by a Torg adventure party (as an example of friends away from work):

This is the group from the novels.

Edited May 22, 2009 by StormKnight

[jynxxxedangel]

The reason there are dress codes in the workplace, is because workers are being paid to portray a certain image, to a targeted demographic of people. For example, this is why you don't see anyone who looks like Nina Hagen working at a five-star restaurant.

For the same reasons an unusual style of dress is appealing to many of us, a very polished, "professional" appearance is appealing to others.

Edited May 22, 2009 by jynxxxedangel

[TygerLili]

I am all about uniforms...

I was not all that fond of the idea before I grew up & had a child of my own, but now I see the point.. Children require structure, and the least amount of distraction possible in school.

Uniforms don't take anything from your individuality.. You make your place with your personality, not your fashion sense... When I go to my sons school, I see children who are very unique from each other, not little drones..

Anyone here who has meet my son knows that no uniform could ever change the fact that he is a very unique individual.

I agree. Who you are isn't defined by what you wear to your job, and school is a job for children and teens.

[Scary Guy]

So, because I have long hair, I don't deserve a better job?

Exactly

Even as an adult, I run around the hospital looking dressed in pajamas (scrubs, a kind of uniform,) that make me look like everyone else.

Well that's actually understandable since it's a sterile environment meant to reduce infection and help curb the spread of any diseases. You can take them off after surgery though.

The reason there are dress codes in the workplace, is because workers are being paid to portray a certain image, to a targeted demographic of people. For example, this is why you don't see anyone who looks like Nina Hagen working at a five-star restaurant.

For the same reasons an unusual style of dress is appealing to many of us, a very polished, "professional" appearance is appealing to others.

If someone that looked like Nina Hagen worked at a five-star I'd eat there just on principle. Society is great because it's all about what you look like. If you don't fit in to the mold you are cast out as an outsider.

Fuck society, in the neck.

[Onyx]

In theory I guess school uniforms keep the poorer kids from being made fun of and could keep kids from being distracted, but it brings back really bad memories of when I worked in an office in a hospital and had to wear pastel shirts and a khaki or blue skirt every single day.

First of all with my coloring it looked horrible on me, and they refused to budge on those colors for everyone, and I ended up feeling physically sick every time I saw that damn uniform.

I'd just hate for my kid to feel that way too. She loves putting together unique fun outfits and I love seeing that sparkle in her eye in the morning when she looks in the mirror.

[Oh_My_Goth]

This is Detroit "Gothic" .Net

There is in another thread in another sub-forum a huge debate on what gothic is or is not.

I was listening to a friend the other day at The Ritz explain how she works at a Cadillac dealership and how she's not allowed to dress goth in any way and if she even skates the line (not even corporate goth) she gets a huge "talking to".

The point is a group of people who love to express their individuality forcing THEIR OWN children to conform to society's standards seems kind of ironic and sad.

As stated before schools are already enough like prisons as it is, ESPECIALLY HIGH SCHOOLS! ID cards, security guards, CCTV, front entrance only, and now matching uniforms.

I can tell you what gothic is not. It's not conforming to the status quo.

Next we might as well take mood suppressors like in Equilibrium to make us all the same robotic like drones. Not questioning anything and backing down every time some authority steps in and tells you no.

It's just one more way of letting THEM win. They win by defining you and making you fit into their mold. Being forced to fit into any mold is not being allowed to be free but I agree we should have limits (must wear clothes, etc...)

Until you're 18 you live in a dictatorship and should fight for any rights you can get.

I didn't have any of that crap and I turned out to be a decent human being, even if a little abrasive and opinionated.

Well.. I grew up wearing a uniform in school... I turned out to be a very unique individual... & I don't feel oppressed because I had to wear a uniform at most of my jobs..

At my current job, I dress how I will, because I made my own way in life..

Wearing a uniform is not being a conformist.. It's a tool to help one focus on what they need to do.. Kids need to go to school & learn.. Poeple need to go to work & pay their bills.. Work & school are not places to show off your latest outfit.. If one needs specific clothing to express who they are, instead of just showing off their unique personality, then I think that's pretty lame.

Don't get Me wrong.. I do agree that people should have some leeway with their style.. Hair, jewelery, makeup ect..

They take it a little far with making kids have to have certain hair cuts, & boys not being able to have piercings 'n' shit like that..

My son wears a uniform.. & He also has dreadlocks down to his ass... I have never cut his hair.. He is in charge of making decisions on how he looks, what spiritual path he chooses, and what he wills to do with his life..

I am however in charge of giving him guidance & structure.. & I feel that picking a good school with things like uniforms, and an advanced curriculum, are part of that job.

My point is.. Uniforms in schools do not make a person any less of an individual.

[jynxxxedangel]

I'm not conforming--oh, no....far from it! I am merely infiltrating the civilians' infrastructure, for closer observation.

Not everyone in the resistance fights on the front lines. Remember this.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

orange jumpsuits ftw!

git yr lern on!

[Stymie]

Schools are becoming more like a jail. My kids school has lock down every day. They are in elementary.(or K-5 grade) Kids have to ask adults to open doors in the halls. There are doors in the halls locking out parts. We live in Sterling Heights, a good neighborhood too.. If they tell me my sons have to wear a uniform. I will find the person that made it pass. Shit in my hand and "brown wash their face."

There are dress codes already. Offensive may never be worn! That is where it should stop. The rest is put on the Mother and Father. Schools need to leave parenting to the parents. And Parents need to be just that! Do not let you son look like a gangbanger or your sweet little girl looking like a whore. Let them do that shit when they are out of the house. Kids will get made fun of being poor even if they have a uniform or not. Uniforms are just as price as other clothing. Unless your buying some Actors clothing line...

As for Uniforms at collages and work place. You picked it. On what ever point. You went there by some free will. Most schools that have uniforms are linked to churches. I see this as churches watchful eye getting a better grip on US kids.

Kids are told be creative. But it is taken away from basically day one in schools. Then told to try and be creative later in school years. Them main study's are all that matter to them. That is bull shit! The arts are chopped almost out of their little life's. Kindergarteners is not what it was when we were little. My sons had homework everyday. Did not do the arts that I did when I was there. They want them to be machines...

Want your kids to were uniforms. Send them to a private schools. There are a lot around. Leave public schools alone! Everyone has the right to choice. Leave it out of the public schools though. Because if you don't you just took away peoples rights.

[Onyx]

Well.. I grew up wearing a uniform in school... I turned out to be a very unique individual... & I don't feel oppressed because I had to wear a uniform at most of my jobs..

At my current job, I dress how I will, because I made my own way in life..

Wearing a uniform is not being a conformist.. It's a tool to help one focus on what they need to do.. Kids need to go to school & learn.. Poeple need to go to work & pay their bills.. Work & school are not places to show off your latest outfit.. If one needs specific clothing to express who they are, instead of just showing off their unique personality, then I think that's pretty lame.

Don't get Me wrong.. I do agree that people should have some leeway with their style.. Hair, jewelery, makeup ect..

They take it a little far with making kids have to have certain hair cuts, & boys not being able to have piercings 'n' shit like that..

My son wears a uniform.. & He also has dreadlocks down to his ass... I have never cut his hair.. He is in charge of making decisions on how he looks, what spiritual path he chooses, and what he wills to do with his life..

I am however in charge of giving him guidance & structure.. & I feel that picking a good school with things like uniforms, and an advanced curriculum, are part of that job.

My point is.. Uniforms in schools do not make a person any less of an individual.

What would you do if they told your son he had to cut off all his hair really short?

(I totally see your point about your choice of schools and I might have made the same decision, not trying to argue, just curious what you would do in that case)?

On thinking this through more, I am in a different situation here on the west side of the state, am blessed with a really good school for my kid.

When I lived in Florida I sent my oldest to a private school because the schools were absolutely horrible in the area where I lived. I didn't like some of their rules in the private school, but we complied because I wanted her to have that environment and education.

I had a friend who was offered a promotion but told he would have to cut his gorgeous waist length dark hair (they wouldn't even hear of him tying it back). He didn't end up taking the job, but it would've made me sad, especially because it was so long and healthy and it takes so long to reach that sort of length. I love long hair on everyone, maybe because I grew up in the 70s where long hair for guys was very much in style.

I can see that a job is a different situation and a personal choice whether to work there, but I think asking someone to make that drastic of a change, especially for school, is going a bit too far.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Exactly

If someone that looked like Nina Hagen worked at a five-star I'd eat there just on principle. Society is great because it's all about what you look like. If you don't fit in to the mold you are cast out as an outsider.

Fuck society, in the neck.

I seem to do just fine.. I wow people with how I am.. I work for very conservative Scientologists , who are big on appearance.. & I don't know if you have seen Me, but I don't exactly fit "the mold"

I put my best foot forward & Show the fact that I am a competent useful person.. I am on the quest to better this world in the sense that, yes, people should be able to express their individuality in every aspect of their lives if that is their will.. But compromise has to be a part of that.. Running around ranting about how 'the man' is keeping me down did not do any good in my life.. I took action.. I present myself as a respectable, productive individual who happens to look a bit different than 'the norm'.. The freaks need to stop running around ranting 'I am who I am, so fuck you & all you believe in!!' & Start saying things like 'I am who I am because _____ <--Insert your 'reasons' for your style, what it means to you.. How it makes you, well.. You

The negativity is keeping us "freaks" down.. It's making us look like as holes.. It makes Me look like an ass-hole

I am in no way defending the fuck-tards of society.. I'm just saying, it tends to be more productive to enlighten others on ones ways, rather than shove it down their throat a wash it down w/ a cup of razor blades.

But I guess that's just Me...

Edited May 23, 2009 by Oh_My_Goth

[Oh_My_Goth]

What would you do if they told your son he had to cut off all his hair really short?

(I totally see your point about your choice of schools and I might have made the same decision, not trying to argue, just curious what you would do in that case)?

On thinking this through more, I am in a different situation here on the west side of the state, am blessed with a really good school for my kid.

When I lived in Florida I sent my oldest to a private school because the schools were absolutely horrible in the area where I lived. I didn't like some of their rules in the private school, but we complied because I wanted her to have that environment and education.

I had a friend who was offered a promotion but told he would have to cut his gorgeous waist length dark hair (they wouldn't even hear of him tying it back). He didn't end up taking the job, but it would've made me sad, especially because it was so long and healthy and it takes so long to reach that sort of length. I love long hair on everyone, maybe because I grew up in the 70s where long hair for guys was very much in style.

I can see that a job is a different situation and a personal choice whether to work there, but I think asking someone to make that drastic of a change, especially for school, is going a bit too far.

My son's hair is the way it is for Spiritual reasons.. They can't fuck with that

[Simon Bar Sinister]

I am in no way defending the fuck-tards of society..

Then I will: every one of you is one of those fucktards to someone else. I am, too.

[Scary Guy]

Then I will: every one of you is one of those fucktards to someone else. I am, too.

Agreed!

If we don't thumb our noses to "the system" it won't even tolerate us as much as it does now, simply because it won't have to.

[Scales]

I would rather see schools and businesses without uniforms, though I can understand it more in Elementary as opposed to High School because in High School that's when your supposedly forging some great identity and have to re-find yourself, the body you were using was just a rental. Not that freedom of expression is the cure-all for the out-of-control ego, but I'd like to see society as a whole be more about freedom of expression, and less divisive with appearances and gender-roles. I think school and business should be fun and just sane enough to operate, though my expectations might not seem realistic to anyone who spends to much time questioning what's real.

[Slogo]

Regardless of whether or not it keeps order, (in a public school at least), how can anyone defend the government saying what's ok for your kids to wear?...

Leading me to a 2nd question...

Where is everyone with the fascist label now?

[phee]

Regardless of whether or not it keeps order, (in a public school at least), how can anyone defend the government saying what's ok for your kids to wear?...

you are acting like they don't already... profanity is not allowed, niether is nudety... those are both the government telling you (and your kids) what to wear.

[Tacohitts]

The idea of making everyone look alike talk alike think alike,let alone be forced to listen to the same type of music, is a very bad idea.

yes you are at school to learn,not to become a mindless robot

like the unfit system wants you to be,damn am I happy I am out of high school

and do not have any kids,I sure the hell would not send them to a public school whatsoever.

[TitsMcGee]

Regardless of whether or not it keeps order, (in a public school at least), how can anyone defend the government saying what's ok for your kids to wear?...

Leading me to a 2nd question...

Where is everyone with the fascist label now?

Um, it's not the government making kids wear uniforms, it's a school board decision.

[TygerLili]

As others have said, I am against line-by-line regulation of what hair cut/style/color, jewelry, make-up and other accessories students can wear. I think that's too much.

As far as personal expression and creativity goes, as someone who has worked in several schools as a sub, I'd just like to point out that when there was a uniform, I felt it made the students more creative trying to find a way to look unique without breaking the rules of the dress code, while in the schools that didn't have uniforms most of the kids were dressed exactly like everyone else in their clique anyway.

[pomba gira]

I am all about uniforms...

I was not all that fond of the idea before I grew up & had a child of my own, but now I see the point.. Children require structure, and the least amount of distraction possible in school.

Uniforms don't take anything from your individuality.. You make your place with your personality, not your fashion sense... When I go to my sons school, I see children who are very unique from each other, not little drones..

Anyone here who has meet my son knows that no uniform could ever change the fact that he is a very unique individual.

School is only for several hours a day, five days a week. Kids have the rest of their free time to wear whatever they want.

When I was 15, SURE..I would have thought of uniforms as repressing towards my creativity, and "The Man" coming down on me.

As an adult, I believe a uniform encourages respect, humbleness, and studiousness. It makes no academic sense, to foster "rebellion without a clue." Children need to be taught discipline, to become self-disciplined adults.

I seem to do just fine.. I wow people with how I am.. I work for very conservative Scientologists , who are big on appearance.. & I don't know if you have seen Me, but I don't exactly fit "the mold"

I put my best foot forward & Show the fact that I am a competent useful person.. I am on the quest to better this world in the sense that, yes, people should be able to express their individuality in every aspect of their lives if that is their will.. But compromise has to be a part of that.. Running around ranting about how 'the man' is keeping me down did not do any good in my life.. I took action.. I present myself as a respectable, productive individual who happens to look a bit different than 'the norm'.. The freaks need to stop running around ranting 'I am who I am, so fuck you & all you believe in!!' & Start saying things like 'I am who I am because _____ <--Insert your 'reasons' for your style, what it means to you.. How it makes you, well.. You

The negativity is keeping us "freaks" down.. It's making us look like as holes.. It makes Me look like an ass-hole

I am in no way defending the fuck-tards of society.. I'm just saying, it tends to be more productive to enlighten others on ones ways, rather than shove it down their throat a wash it down w/ a cup of razor blades.

But I guess that's just Me...

All good points. Bottom line, kids learn more effectively with more structure and fewer distractions. Uniforms provide both. And I agree with TygerLili- in schools with no uniform policy, the vast majority of kids wear the exact same clothing as the other kids in their particular clique. Where's the "individual expression" and "creativity" in that?