School Uniforms

[TheGimp]

iam not for uniforms noir aam i aginst uniforms i think everyone made good points but i agree with pomba if everyone is dressed neatly and respectable there are less distractions i didnt use to think this was true when i was a young teen but i see it now i remember being in 9th grade and sitting in class and seein the senior guys that were goth or punk with amazing hair styles and few that were 18 had a few tatttoos or pericings i thought were cool and as far as women went being a 15 year old boy and seeing a 18 year old senior girl in booty shorts and a tank top my mind wasnt really focused on math or history i was interested in anatomy

[Rev.Reverence]

This is Detroit "Gothic" .Net

There is in another thread in another sub-forum a huge debate on what gothic is or is not.

I was listening to a friend the other day at The Ritz explain how she works at a Cadillac dealership and how she's not allowed to dress goth in any way and if she even skates the line (not even corporate goth) she gets a huge "talking to".

The point is a group of people who love to express their individuality forcing THEIR OWN children to conform to society's standards seems kind of ironic and sad.

As stated before schools are already enough like prisons as it is, ESPECIALLY HIGH SCHOOLS! ID cards, security guards, CCTV, front entrance only, and now matching uniforms.

I can tell you what gothic is not. It's not conforming to the status quo.

Next we might as well take mood suppressors like in Equilibrium to make us all the same robotic like drones. Not questioning anything and backing down every time some authority steps in and tells you no.

It's just one more way of letting THEM win. They win by defining you and making you fit into their mold. Being forced to fit into any mold is not being allowed to be free but I agree we should have limits (must wear clothes, etc...)

Until you're 18 you live in a dictatorship and should fight for any rights you can get.

I didn't have any of that crap and I turned out to be a decent human being, even if a little abrasive and opinionated.

If someone that looked like Nina Hagen worked at a five-star I'd eat there just on principle. Society is great because it's all about what you look like. If you don't fit in to the mold you are cast out as an outsider.

Fuck society, in the neck.

Agreed!

If we don't thumb our noses to "the system" it won't even tolerate us as much as it does now, simply because it won't have to.

THIS MENTALITY...is exactly why I do not wear the all black uniform anymore (yup, Scary you wear a uniform EVERYDAY.)...I do not want to be mistaken for someone with these views.

I am a total friek. (Such a friek I refuse to spell it correctly..I also pronounce it as I spell it.)

Whenever I have had a job in the 'real world' I had SOME sort of dress code (except for at City Club.)

SO...SG...do you sign your check each month on the dotted line like they say to? or do you tell Society to fuck themselves? Isn't that a SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK?

I used to think like you.......I am glad I do not any more.

The idea of making everyone look alike talk alike think alike,let alone be forced to listen to the same type of music, is a very bad idea.

yes you are at school to learn,not to become a mindless robot

like the unfit system wants you to be,damn am I happy I am out of high school

and do not have any kids,I sure the hell would not send them to a public school whatsoever.

Not even a question here...the music...

You know...private schools (Religious OR Secular) USUALLY have a dress code...

Edited May 26, 2009 by Rev.Reverence

[Scary Guy]

THIS MENTALITY...is exactly why I do not wear the all black uniform anymore (yup, Scary you wear a uniform EVERYDAY.)...I do not want to be mistaken for someone with these views.

I am a total friek. (Such a friek I refuse to spell it correctly..I also pronounce it as I spell it.)

Whenever I have had a job in the 'real world' I had SOME sort of dress code (except for at City Club.)

SO...SG...do you sign your check each month on the dotted line like they say to? or do you tell Society to fuck themselves? Isn't that a SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK?

I used to think like you.......I am glad I do not any more.

I don't get any free government money, even though I probably should.

This also isn't a uniform because even the freaks make fun of it. I chose to put this on, I wasn't ordered to, and THAT is the difference. IF I choose to I can put something else on without fear of repercussions.

You also can't judge a book by its cover, as is shown by a lot in this thread. I figured my views on this subject were in the majority and apparently I WAS WRONG. So have fun with your conformist failure. This is the exact reason why I never want to have kids.

[Rev.Reverence]

I don't get any free government money, even though I probably should.

This also isn't a uniform because even the freaks make fun of it. I chose to put this on, I wasn't ordered to, and THAT is the difference. IF I choose to I can put something else on without fear of repercussions.

You also can't judge a book by its cover, as is shown by a lot in this thread. I figured my views on this subject were in the majority and apparently I WAS WRONG. So have fun with your conformist failure. This is the exact reason why I never want to have kids.

Oops...musta' been a different person I had a convo with on the board..my bad...

...but you did not answer the heart of my question...do you (when receiving a check) sign on the line? or anywhere you fell like?

uniform:

1 : having always the same form, manner, or degree : not varying or variable <uniform procedures>

Hm...always in all black...sounds like a uniform to me...as the definition of a uniform sais nothing whatsoever about choice or mandate.

...WOW! The double standard you put forth is mind-staggering...I choose to send my boy to school to LEARN something I can not teach...(basic conformity, without giving in on your personal practices; be those practices Spiritual, Religious, OR Secular)(I like to call it blending into society...& though he will never FIT IT...I'ld like him to FEEL as if he at least BELONGS somewhere...something I feel rarely, & that I am sure you can understand.)...but since you choose your uniform of hate it is not a uniform, nor is it conformity?...but I am a conformist? or a failiure at conforming?

I really did not understand just what exactly you are trying to say with the line, "have fun with your conformist failure"

I also don't understand your line, "This is the exact reason why I never want to have kids." & how exactly it matters...can you elaborate???

..& for the record...I hope you don't have kids...because then you'ld have to conform a bit more than you already do..& believe it or not...you conform more than you don't.

[Head Wreck]

So, because I have long hair, I don't deserve a better job?

quite the opposite. in an idealised world we are judged on our merrits, not our outward appearance and genital organs.

infortunatly i have to swim with the sharks

[Scary Guy]

.double post, delete please

Edited May 26, 2009 by Scary Guy

[Scary Guy]

Oops...musta' been a different person I had a convo with on the board..my bad...

...but you did not answer the heart of my question...do you (when receiving a check) sign on the line? or anywhere you fell like?

I sign the line because you have to play their game to get their money and in this culture you need that money to survive (unless you are REALLY good at the barter system). I need that money for things like car insurance which is mandated if I want to drive, gas to fuel the contraption, food, heat, and electricity (all provided graciously by my parents).

Hm...always in all black...sounds like a uniform to me...as the definition of a uniform sais nothing whatsoever about choice or mandate.

There's a difference between definitions of uniforms. Don't pull that crap, I know you know better, it even says so in the definition.

uniform:

1 : having always the same form, manner, or degree : not varying or variable <uniform procedures>

3 : of the same form with others : conforming to one rule or mode : consonant

I fit the rule for 1, however I do not fit 3. I am uniform in my appearance, but I am not in a uniform. No one wears exactly what I do and everything has been modified to fit my style.

...WOW! The double standard you put forth is mind-staggering...I choose to send my boy to school to LEARN something I can not teach...(basic conformity, without giving in on your personal practices; be those practices Spiritual, Religious, OR Secular)(I like to call it blending into society...& though he will never FIT IT...I'ld like him to FEEL as if he at least BELONGS somewhere...something I feel rarely, & that I am sure you can understand.)...but since you choose your uniform of hate it is not a uniform, nor is it conformity?...but I am a conformist? or a failiure at conforming?

I really did not understand just what exactly you are trying to say with the line, "have fun with your conformist failure"

I also don't understand your line, "This is the exact reason why I never want to have kids." & how exactly it matters...can you elaborate???

..& for the record...I hope you don't have kids...because then you'ld have to conform a bit more than you already do..& believe it or not...you conform more than you don't.

Conforming is failure because conformity does not equal freedom. I want total freedom, complete, and people telling me what I can and cannot wear doesn't mean I'm free.

I never want to have kids because of the restrictions people would put on them and me for having them.

Wystan Hugh Auden once said “To be free is often to be lonely.” and I can deal with that. Maybe he meant it in a different context (say, relationships of the romantic nature) but it fits here too and in most other situations. The less people there are around you means the less people can tell you what you may or may not do. I prefer to judge and govern those things myself. If I had a kid I'd let him wear whatever he wanted as long as it wasn't fiberglass wrap or something where he would get hurt physically (although if I did that would be pretty Darwin of me).

[the eternal]

I think there are extremely compelling points on both sides.

My heart sides with Scary Guy and a few others (his points, if not quite the manner he goes about it)

but my head nods with the words of OMG and Pomba.

The latter is a very good teacher, and as much as I don't want to say it, it's hard to argue with results.

[Rev.Reverence]

I sign the line because you have to play their game to get their money and in this culture you need that money to survive (unless you are REALLY good at the barter system). I need that money for things like car insurance which is mandated if I want to drive, gas to fuel the contraption, food, heat, and electricity (all provided graciously by my parents).

There's a difference between definitions of uniforms. Don't pull that crap, I know you know better, it even says so in the definition.

I fit the rule for 1, however I do not fit 3. I am uniform in my appearance, but I am not in a uniform. No one wears exactly what I do and everything has been modified to fit my style.

Conforming is failure because conformity does not equal freedom. I want total freedom, complete, and people telling me what I can and cannot wear doesn't mean I'm free.

I never want to have kids because of the restrictions people would put on them and me for having them.

Wystan Hugh Auden once said “To be free is often to be lonely.” and I can deal with that. Maybe he meant it in a different context (say, relationships of the romantic nature) but it fits here too and in most other situations. The less people there are around you means the less people can tell you what you may or may not do. I prefer to judge and govern those things myself. If I had a kid I'd let him wear whatever he wanted as long as it wasn't fiberglass wrap or something where he would get hurt physically (although if I did that would be pretty Darwin of me).

..you love the game...it gives you an enemy.

Just like everyone else does...& you all say the same thing..."I'm not conforming..this is my style!"

Well...when some one wears all black...society does not seem to notice the lil' alterations you made to your clothes...they see a grumpy young man in a silly hat (I'm not makin' fun..I have a similar hat.)...with a negative view on dang near everything..(for the record..I just see another crazy DJ.)

I did not see anyone telling you what to wear.

I did see you becoming insulting because other peoples CHOOSE something you see as anathema.

..that would be SO not Darwin...you have language...the most Darwinian thing parents do is to preserve their genes by telling kids, "NO!" so they are safe.....end of subject.

...& yes..that is a lonely kind of freedom.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Rev.Reverence

[gothkytten (2)]

i reamber when i was in jr high. the kids who didnt have the IOu's and get used jeans got mad fun of. at the time those were very expensive . so the ones who couldnt afford them. didnt have many friends. i know it sounds mean but that was what happen to them.

[Homicidalheathen]

from world school girl uniform day

[pomba gira]

Those Japanese "loose socks" are a perfect example of how kids will always find a way to add their own style to uniforms (although the socks are so ubiquitous now they're pretty much a uniform in themselves). A lot of classic 1950s teen styles originated as embellishments to school uniforms.

[Scary Guy]

..you love the game...it gives you an enemy.

I HATE the way things are (not a game) because people are illogical idiots. I'd much rather have allies than enemies. I have negative views on the world because the world is a very screwed up place in need of heavy renovation.

Just like everyone else does...& you all say the same thing..."I'm not conforming..this is my style!"

Well...when some one wears all black...society does not seem to notice the lil' alterations you made to your clothes...they see a grumpy young man in a silly hat (I'm not makin' fun..I have a similar hat.)...with a negative view on dang near everything..(for the record..I just see another crazy DJ.)

If I was conforming I'd be dressed just as everyone else does trying to fit in with society. I'm not TRYING to do anything and I don't really give a shit if "the scene" likes me or not. The only groups I try to fit in with are the ones that share similar ideologies that I agree with (atheists, libertarians, etc...) and the only clique that I belong to because I think it's "cool" are the hearse drivers (which I don't even give a shit about them considering I quit The Dead Society and am now an independent hearse driver).

I did not see anyone telling you what to wear.

I did see you becoming insulting because other peoples CHOOSE something you see as anathema.

Damn right I do.

..that would be SO not Darwin...you have language...the most Darwinian thing parents do is to preserve their genes by telling kids, "NO!" so they are safe.....end of subject.

I don't think you quite understand what Darwinism is. Let's say your kid plays with fire and burns himself alive. That kid doesn't grow up to have other kids. Kids smart enough to figure out that fire is hot survive by not screwing with it. The species becomes better because of that.

The reason we have so many idiots today is because Darwinism has stopped because the stupid are protected from death allowing them to breed and raise more stupid children.

Granted telling your kids no is alright, but actually stopping and preventing them from doing it is bad. If their curiosity kills them you can always have more and hopefully they won't be as dumb and will survive.

I remember being a kid and sticking two keys into a plug and getting shot back against the wall. I survived, and I sure as fuck didn't do it again. Had I died that would have been great (not that I plan on breeding anyhow even though I probably should).