School Uniforms

[TygerLili]

Should schools have them? Do they make children safer? Do they stifle personal expression? What are your thoughts?

[prick]

I think its a bit better for kids to wear uniforms. I remember how important it was to have the right close when I was in school. I think adult women should wear them sometimes too.

[peelingchrome]

In my mind, stifling clothing choices is just another form of control. Censorship of clothing, if you will; we have censorship of language as well. IMHO, most organized religions thrive on censoring thought. I bring this up because the Catholic School Girl outfit is apodictic of the situation, as well as iconographic. Everyone knows that Catholic School Girls end up freakier than the rest (stereotype that has strong basis in fact, but also just generalization). Dress alike leads to talk alike leads to think alike. Control. In my mind, it's just another form of brainwashing. The ones that survive it while not conforming seem to be more rebellious in the rest of their lives(in my experience). Either it breaks their spirits or gives them a reason to dislike conformity. Either way, it will alter the child.

I guess I'd be in the "not in favor" group. lol

[TygerLili]

I have no problem with schools having a sensible uniform for all students, such as having all students, regardless of gender wear red polo shirts, black pants (with the option of a long black skirt, since I know some religions require the females to wear a skirt), and black shoes. I think that having uniforms in that sense makes things easier for teachers and school administrators because there are fewer problems with the dress code to deal with. I do, however, feel that if a school is going to require a uniform that the uniform should be very inexpensive, so as not to add an extra burden for poor families, especially those with several children in the same school.

What made me think about the whole thing was seeing a couple of girls, maybe middle school aged, walking by in traditional Catholic school outfits. I think those types of uniforms are horribly outdated and a bad idea. For one thing, they are not gender equal outfits. For another, both the boys' and the girls' outfits look really uncomfortable. Finally, I think that in this day and age dressing little girls in the traditional short plaid skirts, knee socks, etc. could actually make them more of a target for sexual predators by appealing to those predators with a "schoolgirl" fetish. I see no reason to make young boys wear suits and ties, and I definitely see no reason to make young girls wear short skirts.

*edited because my grammar sucked*

Edited May 22, 2009 by TygerLili

[Stymie]

We live in land of free.

That is slowly becoming less.

uniforms!

Be free!

Wear what you want.

Or..

Be nudy!!

Run around naked and be free!

Having a uniform really doesn't make anyone safer.

Your going to get jacked up or what ever.

No matter what you have on.

Plus there are some schools were the males wear shirts too.

Or should I say kilts!

Or we can just do what the Chinese did.

Make unisex uniforms...

Like the ladies and men had to wear.

Same hair cut, clothing and way they acted to a point too!

Also.

You wouldn't be able to color your hair, do your nails and so on....

I like seeing odd hair cuts.

Like mohawks and stuff!

[StormKnight (1)]

It doesn't have to be a religious school that mandates a uniform. Most Japanese schools enforce a uniform code, distinct between schools. A lot of private schools mandate them. Even places like Interlochen still mandates a simple uniform. A simple daily wardrobe saves time (you don't have to make up your mind on what to wear,) and stress about fashion sense at school, probably avoiding a lot of peer pressure in the process. Gang colors? Not at school due to the uniforms. Weapons? Well, if the uniforms have limited pockets, it will be harder (not impossible,) to carry a gun or a knife concealed on your immediate person.

I may be a bit old fashion, or it is because I was raised by War Baby parents (born between 1932-1945,) but there are certain things I am a bit draconian about. While school is social and allows kids to interact with peers, it is first and foremost a place to learn math, grammar, history, science, music, industrial arts, home economics, and other things neither peers nor parents can teach completely. It has been proven that the fewer distractions in the environment someone undergoing training (school, military, etc.) the more you are able to focus on the teaching. Now as flattering (to put it mildly,) as the high fashion clothing may be, it can be distracting to others around them. Everyone wearing the same thing would be a bit less so. Less glamour, less glitz, more academia.

One of the things that has also been proven is that clothes do make the person. One only has to look at shows like Fashion Emergency that show clothes do have an influence on attitude and demeanor, despite what the target person of the show believes. "Dress for Success" is not just a motto.

The only thing I would stipulate is that males have the option of shorts starting in spring, and I personally prefer tennis shoes to black shoes, as they are a bit more versatile in allowing a child to run and play during school hours. After school, let them express themselves to their heart's content with their clothing.

If I am paying a school tax (which a lot states have,) I want to see results of successful academics by kids with a good knowledge base. Personally, if it means kids going through public schools are going kick my ass in science, history, classical literature, languages (last count my high school taught at least 5 other languages, including Latin, Russian, and Japanese,) and world affairs by wearing a uniform daily, I say go for it. I want them to do better than I did. I want kids to grow up and reach the stars. To do not help them to accomplish this is a disservice to the generations after us. Each generation should be improving (i.e. evolving,) not maintaining status quo.

The only concern I have is cost and comfort. I would like to see no more than $25.00 per set (cheap compared to what my sisters pay for their kids' clothes...seriously, $40.00 new for a pair of pants that they outgrow in six months? WTF?) Also, I am not a big fan of synthetics for comfort or safety (polyester melts quite nicely in Bunsen burners.)

Guess this rant puts me in the pro-uniform group. At least during school. *After* school should be time for expression and style discovery.

[pomba gira]

There are reams of studies that link school uniforms with improved academic and social performance. We have a strict dress code at my school (black pants or skirt, white collared top, school Malcolm X tshirts allowed on Fridays and mandatory for field trips), and there is a noticeable difference in the kids' behavior when we have "dress-down" days. Uniforms also get rid of the whole fashion-competition issue, which is often be a huge source of stress in schools with a wide range of income levels.

I do think students should be allowed some leeway in accessories, hair, etc. That way you keep the benefits of uniforms while leaving some scope for individual expression. I once visited another local charter school and they had a three-page dress code posted... with minute details of what jewelry, hairstyles/colors, makeup, etc. were allowed. Another visiting teacher and I were snickering over the list, since it was obvious what happened- kids kept finding loopholes, admin kept adding to the list. Which means the kids pretty much won. The AP came by and went into this big self-righteous spiel which confirmed our suspicions. He didn't seem to get that they'd created this situation where the kids were spending vast amounts of time/energy figuring out ways to circumvent the rules... never a good thing. So there needs to be some kind of balance.

And yeah, it's hard for me to believe some schools still use the traditional short-plaid-skirt uniform. I find the whole "schoolgirl" thing disturbing anyway, especially given how many womanish pre-pubescent girls I see these days. Why would any school go out of the way to make little girls look like pedophile-bait?

[Tacohitts]

They could do the opposite

[TitsMcGee]

Frankly I do think schools should have dress codes. Especially when I see the group of emo kids in town all in skinny jeans. How much learning can actually be achieved when all they care about is how fashionable they look.

[prick]

Frankly I do think schools should have dress codes. Especially when I see the group of emo kids in town all in skinny jeans. How much learning can actually be achieved when all they care about is how fashionable they look.

Wait I totally rock the skinny jeans but Rev. points me out at the coffee house and tells the emo kids that thats how a old school punk weares skinny jeans.

[TitsMcGee]

Wait I totally rock the skinny jeans but Rev. points me out at the coffee house and tells the emo kids that thats how a old school punk weares skinny jeans.

I totally agree they rock, but there is a time and a place for them and I frankly don't believe that place should be school.

[Slogo]

I just really don't care

[jynxxxedangel]

Having been poor, and stuck wearing mostly hand-me-downs to school as a child, wearing uniforms would have kept me from being teased mercilessly (which interfered with my education).

I see no problem with school uniforms. School is for learning--it's not a fashion show.

[Rev.Reverence]

Having been poor, and stuck wearing mostly hand-me-downs to school as a child, wearing uniforms would have kept me from being teased mercilessly (which interfered with my education).

I see no problem with school uniforms. School is for learning--it's not a fashion show.

+1

[Scary Guy]

It's just another way to strip children of their individuality and get them to conform. But why not, it's already like prison anyway.

I remember when I went to school, I didn't give a fuck what anyone else thought. I wore blue jeans, some t-shirt with something I liked on it, and a light blue-jean red hooded jacket in elementary school, a light camo jacket in middle school, a flannel jacket in early high school (I wasn't into grunge, I just liked them from my father/grandfather wearing them), and a leather jacket in late high school.

I did see a lot of girls dressed like prostitots back then trying to emulate what they saw in the media. So I agree with a somewhat strict dress-code. But I've always been an advocate of individuality.

Another thing is making everyone fit into one mold, boys and girls. You don't like the catholic schoolgirl look? Fine make them wear longer dresses then. It's a crucial time in a child's life where they're trying to figure out who they are. Having them grow up thinking we're all the same is a bad thing, because we aren't.

"The idea is that if kids wear uniforms to school, it helps to keep order. Hey! Don't these schools do enough damage makin' all these children THINK alike? Now they're gonna get 'em to LOOK alike, too? And it's not even a new idea; I first saw it in old newsreels from the 1930s, but it was hard to understand, because the narration was in German." - George Carlin

[Oh_My_Goth]

I am all about uniforms...

I was not all that fond of the idea before I grew up & had a child of my own, but now I see the point.. Children require structure, and the least amount of distraction possible in school.

Uniforms don't take anything from your individuality.. You make your place with your personality, not your fashion sense... When I go to my sons school, I see children who are very unique from each other, not little drones..

Anyone here who has meet my son knows that no uniform could ever change the fact that he is a very unique individual.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Oh_My_Goth

[Rev.Reverence]

I am all about uniforms...

I was not all that fond of the idea before I grew up & had a child of my own, but now I see the point.. Children require structure, and the least amount of distraction possible.

Uniforms don't take anything from your individuality.. You make your place with your personality, not your fashion sense... When I go to my sons school, I see children who are very unique from each other, not little drones..

Anyone here who has meet my son knows that no uniform could ever change the fact that he is a very unique individual.

[gothkytten (2)]

i had my son in a priv. school from kinder to 2nd and they had to wear uniforms. it was easy to shop for. and they were pretty cheap. they have the red and blue polos with kaki pants. now he wants all the new trends and that can cost some money.

[jynxxxedangel]

School is only for several hours a day, five days a week. Kids have the rest of their free time to wear whatever they want.

When I was 15, SURE..I would have thought of uniforms as repressing towards my creativity, and "The Man" coming down on me.

As an adult, I believe a uniform encourages respect, humbleness, and studiousness. It makes no academic sense, to foster "rebellion without a clue." Children need to be taught discipline, to become self-disciplined adults.

Edited May 22, 2009 by jynxxxedangel

[gothkytten (2)]

here here

[Scary Guy]

I expected better of you all, seriously.

I should be pretty used to disappointment by now.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I expected better of you all, seriously.

I should be pretty used to disappointment by now.

What is that supposed to mean??

[phee]

Uniforms are good for school, up to a point.... I would have fought against wearing one with every fiber of my being at one point.... but now as an adult...

[Scary Guy]

What is that supposed to mean??

This is Detroit "Gothic" .Net

There is in another thread in another sub-forum a huge debate on what gothic is or is not.

I was listening to a friend the other day at The Ritz explain how she works at a Cadillac dealership and how she's not allowed to dress goth in any way and if she even skates the line (not even corporate goth) she gets a huge "talking to".

The point is a group of people who love to express their individuality forcing THEIR OWN children to conform to society's standards seems kind of ironic and sad.

As stated before schools are already enough like prisons as it is, ESPECIALLY HIGH SCHOOLS! ID cards, security guards, CCTV, front entrance only, and now matching uniforms.

I can tell you what gothic is not. It's not conforming to the status quo.

Next we might as well take mood suppressors like in Equilibrium to make us all the same robotic like drones. Not questioning anything and backing down every time some authority steps in and tells you no.

It's just one more way of letting THEM win. They win by defining you and making you fit into their mold. Being forced to fit into any mold is not being allowed to be free but I agree we should have limits (must wear clothes, etc...)

Until you're 18 you live in a dictatorship and should fight for any rights you can get.

I didn't have any of that crap and I turned out to be a decent human being, even if a little abrasive and opinionated.

[Shade Everdark]

I think some are also missing the point that pedophiles (and let's be honest, a good many men in general) don't like women (whether girls or adults, depending on your...predilection) because they're in Catholic school girl outfits, they like Catholic school girl outfits because women are in them.

In that context, everything is a target.