Girl, 12, pregnant after being allowed to live with boyfriend

[TygerLili]

What I want to know is why the 15 year old boy's family let him move in with his 12 year old girlfriend and her mentally incapacitated mother. It sounds like everyone in this situation exhibits a lack of responsibility and seriously bad judgement. Epic parenting fail on both sides, and the kids were pretty stupid for not using protection, too.

No, I don't necessarily think anyone should be punished. Like others have said: what's done is done.

Stuff like this does, however, make me want to hug my parents and thank them for not being morons and doing a good job of raising me. Call me intolerant if you want, I really don't care. Stupid people shouldn't breed.

*edited for spelling error*

Edited June 16, 2009 by TygerLili

[n0Mad]

the NSW Department of Community Services

NSW? Not Safe for Work? lol

[TygerLili]

NSW? Not Safe for Work? lol

That's NSFW!

[Head Wreck]

new south wales

[torn asunder]

.....my Grandfather wasted away with Dementia, and my mother in law is a nurse at an extended care facility.

an extended care facility is NOT an institution.

an extended care facility houses people with heath conditions that need extended care.

Its pretty much an old folks home. One for people with health conditions that need monitoring.

I used my friend as an example because if 5 days unsettled her enough to not want to go back, then I figure long term has got to be some serious punishment.

I think you are being argumentative, because you can. I was presenting an arguement that paralleled yours, in a way. The woman needed treatment, she's getting it. I was merely stating that she's not exactly going to be *comfortable*. She hurt people, and anyone presenting the argument that it deserves punishment? Its not like an institution is a picnic. That's all I was sayin.

you're debating semantics, which might work here, but remember, this is in australia, where the terms might be used in different ways, or refer to different things due to cultural differences... just thought i'd point that out!

Edited June 16, 2009 by torn asunder

[Oh_My_Goth]

Stupid people shouldn't breed.

[TitsMcGee]

Dementia is a non-specific illness syndrome (set of signs and symptoms) in which affected areas of cognition may be memory, attention, language, and problem solving.

^^YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT!

I didn't try to tell you what you know & what you don't know...just what it is obvious that you did not know.

(via your prior statements)

I know these words, each & everyone.

You would refute me as incorrect? You would be wrong.

Again please don't assume what I do and do not know. My grandfather lived with us for 10 years and he had dementia, which means I had to help take care of him as a pre-teen. For the last two years of his life, he couldn't remember my name and called me Betty, because apparently I look a lot like my grandmother. So, I know exactly how horrible it is on a person.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Again please don't assume what I do and do not know. My grandfather lived with us for 10 years and he had dementia, which means I had to help take care of him as a pre-teen. For the last two years of his life, he couldn't remember my name and called me Betty, because apparently I look a lot like my grandmother. So, I know exactly how horrible it is on a person.

Living with someone who experiences it & Actually experiencing it are very different though.. & I think it was felt that people where not getting that point..

& Really whether it was dementia, psychosis, or whatever.. This woman should not be punished for doing something she probably rationalized to be a good thing.. Maybe the boy had a bad home life & she thought she was helping.. We don't know.

Point is.. The kid fucked up, & if a kid that age murdered someone, ya'll would probably be nailing them to the wall because "they should have know better"..

Well I say, this kid should have known better.. I started having sex fairly shortly after I turned 13 & I knew to use a damn condom, & My Mother didn't even talk to me about sex.. Ever.

[TitsMcGee]

Living with someone who experiences it & Actually experiencing it are very different though.. & I think it was felt that people where not getting that point..

& Really whether it was dementia, psychosis, or whatever.. This woman should not be punished for doing something she probably rationalized to be a good thing.. Maybe the boy had a bad home life & she thought she was helping.. We don't know.

Point is.. The kid fucked up, & if a kid that age murdered someone, ya'll would probably be nailing them to the wall because "they should have know better"..

Well I say, this kid should have known better.. I started having sex fairly shortly after I turned 13 & I knew to use a damn condom, & My Mother didn't even talk to me about sex.. Ever.

I'm not saying the girl shouldn't be held responsible too, because she's definatly a dumbass for not using a condom. Hell the Aussie's version of child protective services are at major fault too for not investigating the fathers complaints. Frankly I'm wondering how the woman got custody of the daughter in the first place if she was so mentally unstable in the first place. Basically this whole situation is one giant fuckup.

[Oh_My_Goth]

Basically this whole situation is one giant fuckup.

Now that I can't argue

[Destroit]

WOW, ya'll are a bit more intolerant than ussual...

...did you miss the part in the article where it said WHY the Father got custody of the 12 year old?

The Mother is in an institution.

Having an illness that impedes your judgment is NOT being a "Dumb Ass"...

Having a mental illness does not make someone a "stupid bitch whore of a mom"...

The LAW won't punish her...as she is already in a locked facility.

Probably...the 12 year old daughter was the one takin' care of the Mother, & even if some one is your child, when you have dementia...the person without dementia gets to be in charge...that's just how it works...

I must say though...congratulations on your new found levels of intolerance & judgmental-ism...

Actually I had 100% no idea she was institutionalized.

[Rev.Reverence]

Oh, and Dementia usually *is* a physical health issue--- because its typically a symptom of a physical disease or physical damage.

Not *always*, but *usually*.

Edit to add:

were you actually referring to psychosis?

Dementia has more to do with cognitive function; memory, language, problem solving. It doesnt effect your perception of reality. Its more like forgetting how to tie your shoes, run a microwave, or who your kids are (or if you even have them).

I know, we're dealing with definitions, but psychosis is a whole different animal than dementia.

NO! I am not arguing the semantics with you {this time}...I REALLY read what I read when I was researching the way MY OWN FUCKING MIND WORKS.

Here's something along those lines...LINK TO SOURCE

Received 3 May 2000 and in revised form 22 November 2000; Accepted 8 December 2000

OBJECTIVES---Cognitive impairment is known to occur in schizophrenia, and may be marked in institutionalised patients. The aim of this study was to determine whether it ever warrants an additional diagnosis of dementia.

METHODS---A population of chronic schizophrenic patients who were aged 65 or younger and showed no organic risk factors for dementia were screened for presence of disorientation. Any showing this underwent neuropsychological testing, physical investigations, and structural and functional neuroimaging. Information about day to day cognitive function was also obtained from carers.

RESULTS---Eight patients aged 28 to 64 were identified who showed disorientation; in all cases this was accompanied by general intellectual impairment and objective evidence of a dementia syndrome. The patients' schizophrenic symptoms were unexceptional and did not seem sufficient to account for their cognitive impairment. Neuropsychological testing disclosed relative sparing of visual and visuospatial function and language syntax, but pervasive deficits in memory and executive function. Brain CT demonstrated only minor abnormalities but most of the patients showed frontal or temporal hypoperfusion on SPECT.

CONCLUSIONS---Dementia in schizophrenia seems to be a real entity with a neuropsychological signature similar to that of frontotemporal dementia. Functional but not structural imaging abnormalities may also be characteristic.

...they don't know if it's from damage...or if it is from deterioration of the brain parts..or if it is the mind trying to block out the residual pain from past trauma...

...I think that the brain is just trying to figure out what is "wrong" & can not access it's own memories because it is 'moving' to frantically...because it really wants to know how to fix itself...there are no pills for this...the pills make it more confusing, & make you not care why your brain is not working correctly. Yoga & diet changes CAN help...I don't mean Hatha (funny stretching) Yoga..that is just a tool to keep your body to shut down whilst one uses the Raja (mind) Yoga to calm the mind, & s..l..o..w..l..y...work through the confusion.

In the depths of my affected times (schizo-affective-disorder link is below), I did not know the names of several friends...forgot to call them...even was known to ask peoples talking to me in public if I knew them..that I had known (but not seen a year or more)...it was during this time that I decided to take the name Reverence...because, if I acted Reverent to all things, I would not become "crazy" & get carted off to the cage....

SO...you see...REV has suffered first hand...& has read much on this subject...please & thank you to not contradict what I KNOW...with what you THINK you know.

I'm not saying the girl shouldn't be held responsible too, because she's definatly a dumbass for not using a condom. Hell the Aussie's version of child protective services are at major fault too for not investigating the fathers complaints. Frankly I'm wondering how the woman got custody of the daughter in the first place if she was so mentally unstable in the first place. Basically this whole situation is one giant fuckup.

Wiki on schito-affective-disorder

WOW...read that & see if it helps you to understand how it could be so.

...& then go find some other reason to be angry...leave the crazies alone!

Shit...even the craziest Muslim Laws don't "punish" the insane...

[Rev.Reverence]

Actually I had 100% no idea she was institutionalized.

It was 1 lil' line in the text...I had to re-read it like 5 times to find it & make sure I was not imagining it myself

I just remember the crazies...they are me peoples.

[Destroit]

It was 1 lil' line in the text...I had to re-read it like 5 times to find it & make sure I was not imagining it myself

I just remember the crazies...they are me peoples.

So long as you remember the peoples who cannot read and do not know sentence structure...I em theys peoples.

[Rev.Reverence]

So long as you remember the peoples who cannot read and do not know sentence structure...I em theys peoples.

*shakes grammar nazi flag at you*

Oh, how could I conceivably forget about you frieks!?!?!??!?!?

[TheOsakaKoneko]

Even if she wasn't institutionalized/having mental issues of any kind, she probably wouldn't be punished. She would just say she was taking in a boy who had no place to go and not letting him become homeless. Some parents have brothers and sisters in the same room until that age or older, and in those cases bad shit tends to happen too. It's not a good situation, and the mother made a stupid decision, but not an illegal one.

[Rev.Reverence]

Even if she wasn't institutionalized/having mental issues of any kind, she probably wouldn't be punished. She would just say she was taking in a boy who had no place to go and not letting him become homeless. Some parents have brothers and sisters in the same room until that age or older, and in those cases bad shit tends to happen too. It's not a good situation, and the mother made a stupid decision, but not an illegal one.

"Stupid" is a very point of view word.

1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.

2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.

3. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.

4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.

5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.

[jynxxxedangel]

I think the thing that disturbs myself, as well as most of the other people who have responded to this thread, is this:

There is no one, or nothing, to actually LAY THE BLAME ON.

In most instances where something has gone wrong, there is a cut-and-dried culprit, and a definite resolution.

In this case, the blame floats in the air, with no definite place to land.

Edited June 17, 2009 by jynxxxedangel

[Rev.Reverence]

I think the thing that disturbs myself, as well as most of the other people who have responded to this thread, is this:

There is no one, or nothing, to actually LAY THE BLAME ON.

In most instances where something has gone wrong, there is a cut-and-dried culprit, and a definite resolution.

In this case, the blame floats in the air, with no definite place to land.

OR...you can blame G*D for working in such mysterious ways

[freydis]

NO! I am not arguing the semantics with you {this time}...I REALLY read what I read when I was researching the way MY OWN FUCKING MIND WORKS.

Here's something along those lines...LINK TO SOURCE

What you dont seem to get here is that I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I think its a sensitive subject with you, and no matter what I say, youre going to argue with me and react negatively. So I'm going to say what I need to say here and that's it.

You're not the only one who has suffered, simply because you may have been the only one in this thread to suffer mental illness personally. Although, you dont really know that. There could be MANY people participating who simply dont want to talk about it. But discounting or dismissing anyone else's suffering simply because it doesnt match your own experience is folly, and almost kind of rude.

People who have watched or cared for loved ones who have been eaten away by illness (dementia or otherwise) have experienced a lot of hardship and pain, too. Yes, its not the same as yours, but it doesnt make their experience any less valid. Nor does it make their knowledge of the experience any less valid. My grandfather had Dementia from Parkinson's, and I did a lot of research, too. Much of Dementia is caused by degenerative nerve conditions and infections. That's why its most commonly seen in Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson's patients, etc.

...they don't know if it's from damage...or if it is from deterioration of the brain parts..or if it is the mind trying to block out the residual pain from past trauma...

...I think that the brain is just trying to figure out what is "wrong" & can not access it's own memories because it is 'moving' to frantically...because it really wants to know how to fix itself...there are no pills for this...the pills make it more confusing, & make you not care why your brain is not working correctly. Yoga & diet changes CAN help...I don't mean Hatha (funny stretching) Yoga..that is just a tool to keep your body to shut down whilst one uses the Raja (mind) Yoga to calm the mind, & s..l..o..w..l..y...work through the confusion.

In the depths of my affected times (schizo-affective-disorder link is below), I did not know the names of several friends...forgot to call them...even was known to ask peoples talking to me in public if I knew them..that I had known (but not seen a year or more)...it was during this time that I decided to take the name Reverence...because, if I acted Reverent to all things, I would not become "crazy" & get carted off to the cage....

SO...you see...REV has suffered first hand...& has read much on this subject...please & thank you to not contradict what I KNOW...with what you THINK you know.

I am not dismissing your suffering.

You experienced Dementia firsthand, and you were LUCKY enough to come through it. That's a big deal.

However?

That doesnt mean I know nothing. And to dismiss me out of hand is far more high-horse than I'm used to seeing from you. We are both sensitive on the subject, as you expeienced it from the inside, and I did from the outside. Both of us had an experience, and both have researched.

So I'll thank you not to tell me what you think I know.

[Rev.Reverence]

What you dont seem to get here is that I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I think its a sensitive subject with you, and no matter what I say, youre going to argue with me and react negatively. So I'm going to say what I need to say here and that's it.

You're not the only one who has suffered, simply because you may have been the only one in this thread to suffer mental illness personally. Although, you dont really know that. There could be MANY people participating who simply dont want to talk about it. But discounting or dismissing anyone else's suffering simply because it doesnt match your own experience is folly, and almost kind of rude.

People who have watched or cared for loved ones who have been eaten away by illness (dementia or otherwise) have experienced a lot of hardship and pain, too. Yes, its not the same as yours, but it doesnt make their experience any less valid. Nor does it make their knowledge of the experience any less valid. My grandfather had Dementia from Parkinson's, and I did a lot of research, too. Much of Dementia is caused by degenerative nerve conditions and infections. That's why its most commonly seen in Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson's patients, etc.

I am not dismissing your suffering.

You experienced Dementia firsthand, and you were LUCKY enough to come through it. That's a big deal.

However?

That doesnt mean I know nothing. And to dismiss me out of hand is far more high-horse than I'm used to seeing from you. We are both sensitive on the subject, as you expeienced it from the inside, and I did from the outside. Both of us had an experience, and both have researched.

So I'll thank you not to tell me what you think I know.

I see these things. I only dismiss your argument on the fact that it is totally off this subject

You did not seem to realize that there are several ways to get to "dementia".

I simply try to educate...

I know I am harsh in my arguments. I am known get that way when I KNOW am right.

You were thinkin' I was picking the wrong word...that alone is enough to inflame me to angry sounding words..I am a Gruff-Goat at many times...

If I was using the wrong words...I would have conceded, retracted, & apologized in due manner...you were speaking of dementia from a geriatric point of view. I was not (that's not the subject, & I know less about those things...I have not been old this lifetime...yet.)

The Doctors don't know why dementia effects the schitzo-types (& the psycho-types)...

SO...we can not say that it is from physical or mental duress...

THAT...is why my temper flared...(& the sheer rudeness of calling sick peoples stupid){not your fault, I know}..excuse my rudeness...it is how I am...I do not dislike you for this argument/conversation, & hope that that is apparent in & of itself..as I have used the better part of 2 days to mash this out...

...& sweety...I never ride horses...I am a Goat...of the Mountain variety...if you have not noticed that I speak down on the general populous it may be because you were standing on the same Mountain as I was, when in the past you have seen me in such discourse...if you dig my allegory

[TheOsakaKoneko]

"Stupid" is a very point of view word.

1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.

2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.

3. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.

4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.

5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.

True enough. But you would say that her mine was completely ordinarily keen when she made this decision?

Besides, I didn't even say she was stupid, merely that she made a stupid decision. "senseless." Yeah, I'd say it was a senseless decision.

What you dont seem to get here is that I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I think its a sensitive subject with you, and no matter what I say, youre going to argue with me and react negatively. So I'm going to say what I need to say here and that's it.

You're not the only one who has suffered, simply because you may have been the only one in this thread to suffer mental illness personally. Although, you dont really know that. There could be MANY people participating who simply dont want to talk about it. But discounting or dismissing anyone else's suffering simply because it doesnt match your own experience is folly, and almost kind of rude.

People who have watched or cared for loved ones who have been eaten away by illness (dementia or otherwise) have experienced a lot of hardship and pain, too. Yes, its not the same as yours, but it doesnt make their experience any less valid. Nor does it make their knowledge of the experience any less valid. My grandfather had Dementia from Parkinson's, and I did a lot of research, too. Much of Dementia is caused by degenerative nerve conditions and infections. That's why its most commonly seen in Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson's patients, etc.

I am not dismissing your suffering.

You experienced Dementia firsthand, and you were LUCKY enough to come through it. That's a big deal.

However?

That doesnt mean I know nothing. And to dismiss me out of hand is far more high-horse than I'm used to seeing from you. We are both sensitive on the subject, as you expeienced it from the inside, and I did from the outside. Both of us had an experience, and both have researched.

So I'll thank you not to tell me what you think I know.

Well spoken.

[TitsMcGee]

Wiki on schito-affective-disorder

WOW...read that & see if it helps you to understand how it could be so.

...& then go find some other reason to be angry...leave the crazies alone!

Shit...even the craziest Muslim Laws don't "punish" the insane...

Well if she thought letting her 12 year old share a bed with her 15 year old boyfriend, she's apparently not all there in the first place. I'm looking at the safety of the child, if the mother didn't realize that was a bad idea what the else could she have been doing that puts the childs welfare in danger. I don't consider it a punishment to take her child away if she can't care for them properly, mentally ill or not.

Edit to add: I know many people who have bipolar disorder who have no problem taking care of their kids, and keeping them safe, and they know right from wrong. They keep the illness in check by taking their meds, seeing the doctor and what not. I'm definatly not saying all people with mental issues should have their kids taken away, but only the ones who can't take care of the children should have them removed from the home. I'm more concerned about the safety of the child/children then anything else.

What you dont seem to get here is that I'm not entirely disagreeing with you. I think its a sensitive subject with you, and no matter what I say, youre going to argue with me and react negatively. So I'm going to say what I need to say here and that's it.

You're not the only one who has suffered, simply because you may have been the only one in this thread to suffer mental illness personally. Although, you dont really know that. There could be MANY people participating who simply dont want to talk about it. But discounting or dismissing anyone else's suffering simply because it doesnt match your own experience is folly, and almost kind of rude.

People who have watched or cared for loved ones who have been eaten away by illness (dementia or otherwise) have experienced a lot of hardship and pain, too. Yes, its not the same as yours, but it doesnt make their experience any less valid. Nor does it make their knowledge of the experience any less valid. My grandfather had Dementia from Parkinson's, and I did a lot of research, too. Much of Dementia is caused by degenerative nerve conditions and infections. That's why its most commonly seen in Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson's patients, etc.

I am not dismissing your suffering.

You experienced Dementia firsthand, and you were LUCKY enough to come through it. That's a big deal.

However?

That doesnt mean I know nothing. And to dismiss me out of hand is far more high-horse than I'm used to seeing from you. We are both sensitive on the subject, as you expeienced it from the inside, and I did from the outside. Both of us had an experience, and both have researched.

So I'll thank you not to tell me what you think I know.

+10

I see these things. I only dismiss your argument on the fact that it is totally off this subject

You did not seem to realize that there are several ways to get to "dementia".

I simply try to educate...

I know I am harsh in my arguments. I am known get that way when I KNOW am right.

You were thinkin' I was picking the wrong word...that alone is enough to inflame me to angry sounding words..I am a Gruff-Goat at many times...

If I was using the wrong words...I would have conceded, retracted, & apologized in due manner...you were speaking of dementia from a geriatric point of view. I was not (that's not the subject, & I know less about those things...I have not been old this lifetime...yet.)

The Doctors don't know why dementia effects the schitzo-types (& the psycho-types)...

SO...we can not say that it is from physical or mental duress...

THAT...is why my temper flared...(& the sheer rudeness of calling sick peoples stupid){not your fault, I know}..excuse my rudeness...it is how I am...I do not dislike you for this argument/conversation, & hope that that is apparent in & of itself..as I have used the better part of 2 days to mash this out...

...& sweety...I never ride horses...I am a Goat...of the Mountain variety...if you have not noticed that I speak down on the general populous it may be because you were standing on the same Mountain as I was, when in the past you have seen me in such discourse...if you dig my allegory

There is a difference in being right about something, and being righteous about it.

Edited June 17, 2009 by TitsMcGee

[Rev.Reverence]

True enough. But you would say that her mine was completely ordinarily keen when she made this decision?

Besides, I didn't even say she was stupid, merely that she made a stupid decision. "senseless." Yeah, I'd say it was a senseless decision.

Well spoken.

True, you did not say that.

..nope, I would not call it a senseless decision...you can certainly state that she was not using what you would call sensible decision making skills...but, consider...the boy, he was probably in a VERY rough spot (I would have to imagine, as we heard NOTHING of his parents)...so she could have thought (in a sensible manner to her) that she was doing the most logical thing, to feed & shelter a needy person...letting them share a bed (at night) I don't get it...she must be in a crazier spot than I have reached...at least in a very long time...but hey...maybe there was NOWHERE ELSE in the house...there is really no way to tell at this juncture...

I think she was acting in a caring fashion..with the logic she possessed.

...& I think all this "stupid" calling, is very judgmental, & a crime against Humanity.

You all do realize that ALL the really way coolest shit on Earth was invented by crazy fuckers, right?

[Rev.Reverence]

Well if she thought letting her 12 year old share a bed with her 15 year old boyfriend, she's apparently not all there in the first place. I'm looking at the safety of the child, if the mother didn't realize that was a bad idea what the else could she have been doing that puts the childs welfare in danger. I don't consider it a punishment to take her child away if she can't care for them properly, mentally ill or not.

Edit to add: I know many people who have bipolar disorder who have no problem taking care of their kids, and keeping them safe, and they know right from wrong. They keep the illness in check by taking their meds, seeing the doctor and what not. I'm definatly not saying all people with mental issues should have their kids taken away, but only the ones who can't take care of the children should have them removed from the home. I'm more concerned about the safety of the child/children then anything else.

+10

There is a difference in being right about something, and being righteous about it.

You were calling for jail as punishment dude...not taking the kid away (which has already happened.)

Mutha' fuckin' WHAT?!?!??

Did you read that sentance as you typed it?

"Right" is the root word of "Righteous"...

Merriam-Webster's seems to think you are mistaken...& I know it.

Have fun eating your "wrong-ness-sandwich"!

righ·teous

1: acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

2 a: morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b: arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>

right

1: righteous, upright

2: being in accordance with what is just, good, or proper <right conduct>

3: conforming to facts or truth : correct <the right answer>

4: suitable, appropriate <the right man for the job>

5: straight <a right line>

6: genuine, real