Thank you Fox News

[the eternal]

Agreed. I'm not going to go headfirst into this topic, because I many never get out, but I will say this much.

Bill O'Reilly is not a man for open-minded discussion and debate.

Before any of you get defensive, neither are a lot of liberals, and you can argue that all of their voices combined are what the Founding Fathers intended.

But taking O'Reilly on strictly his own merits----He has kicked guests off his TV show, hung up on callers, viciously attacked individuals and groups of people alike to the point that the words "open minded" and "debate" are about as foreign to him as a

Bacon Double Cheeseburger is to an Orthodox Vegan Jew.

[candyman]

It is time to add a small array of crude weapons to these debates...dead people don't win arguments!

[ttogreh]

That was satire, right, Candyman?

... right?

[Rev.Reverence]

Rev, Bill O'Reilly is a powerful man, and he uses the hate and fear of his viewers to maintain that power. He is a demagogue in my book.

Um...I was totally backin' you up on that ma'man...hence the

Agreed. I'm not going to go headfirst into this topic, because I many never get out, but I will say this much.

Bill O'Reilly is not a man for open-minded discussion and debate.

Before any of you get defensive, neither are a lot of liberals, and you can argue that all of their voices combined are what the Founding Fathers intended.

But taking O'Reilly on strictly his own merits----He has kicked guests off his TV show, hung up on callers, viciously attacked individuals and groups of people alike to the point that the words "open minded" and "debate" are about as foreign to him as a

Bacon Double Cheeseburger is to an Orthodox Vegan Jew.

:rofl:

You didn't need to say Vegan

Quick...e...let's get out of this room before we get sucked in & all angst-y!

[creatureofthenyte]

Rev, Bill O'Reilly is a powerful man, and he uses the hate and fear of his viewers to maintain that power. He is a demagogue in my book.

I agree that Bill is a powerful man. However, ttogreh, I still disagree with your viewpoint, saying that Bill is a demagogue.

I don't see how he could use the hate and fear of his viewers to maintain his power. I watch his show from time to time, and he has no power over me. If I don't want to hear the topic he is discussing, or if I feel that he is being an unnecessarily rude or belligerent, then I pick up the clicker, and Change the Channel. Every television viewer of any show anywhere has the ability to do that. I also have to agree with Eternal, Bill O'Reilly can be quite the asshole.....

Hey....(light bulb moment)...ttogreh..wow I think I may have discovered why you called him a demagogue. I was just re-running the definition of the word in my mind, factoring in O'Reilly's occasional belligerence.....I think what you're saying kinda is making alittle sense to me now...*ponders some more*

On a topic related front, I will say one thing that I don't like about Fox; some the program hosts, interrupt their guests while the guest is trying to say something. Cavuto does it, Varney does it, and Bill...well you know...

Let the guest finish articulating the thought, don't interrupt.

[Reaper]

I agree that Bill is a powerful man. However, ttogreh, I still disagree with your viewpoint, saying that Bill is a demagogue.

I don't see how he could use the hate and fear of his viewers to maintain his power. I watch his show from time to time, and he has no power over me. If I don't want to hear the topic he is discussing, or if I feel that he is being an unnecessarily rude or belligerent, then I pick up the clicker, and Change the Channel. Every television viewer of any show anywhere has the ability to do that. I also have to agree with Eternal, Bill O'Reilly can be quite the asshole.....

Hey....(light bulb moment)...ttogreh..wow I think I may have discovered why you called him a demagogue. I was just re-running the definition of the word in my mind, factoring in O'Reilly's occasional belligerence.....I think what you're saying kinda is making alittle sense to me now...*ponders some more*

On a topic related front, I will say one thing that I don't like about Fox; some the program hosts, interrupt their guests while the guest is trying to say something. Cavuto does it, Varney does it, and Bill...well you know...

Let the guest finish articulating the thought, don't interrupt.

Yes, everyone's viewpoints here valid. Reporting is subject to many factors like mainstream views and actual facts. Hard to believe that one media can put out 100% facts. That is why I also watch my local news, listen to 950 WWJ when I get close to home, and see the yahoo news when I sign into my Yahoo mail. Getting a collective helps find out the real truth even though you can't be there to witness it.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Reaper

[Rev.Reverence]

I agree that Bill is a powerful man. However, ttogreh, I still disagree with your viewpoint, saying that Bill is a demagogue.

I don't see how he could use the hate and fear of his viewers to maintain his power. I watch his show from time to time, and he has no power over me. If I don't want to hear the topic he is discussing, or if I feel that he is being an unnecessarily rude or belligerent, then I pick up the clicker, and Change the Channel. Every television viewer of any show anywhere has the ability to do that. I also have to agree with Eternal, Bill O'Reilly can be quite the asshole.....

Hey....(light bulb moment)...ttogreh..wow I think I may have discovered why you called him a demagogue. I was just re-running the definition of the word in my mind, factoring in O'Reilly's occasional belligerence.....I think what you're saying kinda is making alittle sense to me now...*ponders some more*

On a topic related front, I will say one thing that I don't like about Fox; some the program hosts, interrupt their guests while the guest is trying to say something. Cavuto does it, Varney does it, and Bill...well you know...

Let the guest finish articulating the thought, don't interrupt.

The point of O'Reilly & Limbaugh (& their ilk) is that just as you have said, every viewer has the choice to switch the channel...but, many do just the opposite, they tune in, to hear these guys rant like some Preacher against whatever group they hate...these peoples in turn, repeat these things like trained parrots...so, now, we have ignorant peoples spewing the hateful garbage that slightly more charismatic but still ignorant peoples made up..this is demagoguery..& is starting to edge into cultdom. I have been paying attention for most of my days you know, to those that would hate me...& THEY do

[Shade Everdark]

I would also just like to point out on the Bill O'Reilly sub-topic:

The man is known to cut mics on guests who get the better of him.

By that, I do not mean shouting at him, I do not mean belligerence.

They make coherent points against what O'Reilly is arguing, or they shoot holes in his argument.

First he blusters, then he interrupts, then he tantrums, then he cuts the mic.

Also, the definition of demagogue (per dictionary.com):

-n a person, esp. an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people.

That is precisely what Bill O'Reilly does.

[Marmee_Noir]

I have done some checking on factcheck.org and found numerous reports about the organization going "left" as well. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2008/09/09/cnn-contradicts-factcheck-org-their-own-reporting-palin You can just do a search on factcheck.org and the word bias.

"Why would ACORN still be in operation, and not under investigation... if there were evidence of systemic corruption?"

Obama has been involved directly as a supporting lawyer for Acorn. Why would he do anything to an organization that supported him and helped him get into the White House? That is like shooting yourself in the foot.

My point is, that you can't rely on believing everything the internet puts out either. Acorn is another great example of this because of the numerous videos taken that show the organization telling people to vote for Obama and no repercussions resulting from it. You are almost sounding like an activist against one media outlet for one or two incidents that you feel are over the top. Alot of media is controlled by someone who has an agenda, so I find it hard to believe that any are totally reliable, including Fox News.

Thank you, lol this saved me a post.....

[ttogreh]

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002008/ Watch that. Theeeeennn... read the link beneath this sentence.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/96mvy/someone_please_debunk_this_so_i_may_continue_to/c0blro7

This is why I don't believe the things that Fox News or conservative talk radio or the conservative blogosphere says about ACORN.

They. Make. Shit. Up.

[creatureofthenyte]

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002008/ Watch that. Theeeeennn... read the link beneath this sentence.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/96mvy/someone_please_debunk_this_so_i_may_continue_to/c0blro7

This is why I don't believe the things that Fox News or conservative talk radio or the conservative blogosphere says about ACORN.

They. Make. Shit. Up.

Can you prove that they make shit up ?

The Daily Kos is left wing if I'm not mistaken, and They don't make shit up ?

Do you think the state of Nevada was making shit up when they convicted Acorn on multiple counts of voter fraud ?

What about all the other multiple states where Acorn was convicted of voter fraud? Were they making shit up too ?

I mean Glenn Beck had former Acorn board members as guests on his show once, and they verified that things that Fox reported. I remember seeing a guy on the street out in Ohio, being interviewed on tv, saying that an Acorn rep asked him to register to vote multiple times in the election last year, and he admitted to registering 73 times! If Acorn has nothing to hide, then why won't they open up their books and allow them to be examined ? Why do reporters who seek interviews with them get ejected from their buildings, or ignored on the street when asking for an interview or comment if they have nothing to hide?

How about gathering information from a source that isn't slanted one way or the other(if any exist)before claiming a source is making shit up. The Daily Kos, if I am not mistaken, is left wing slanted, so saying that Fox was making shit up about Acorn, and citing The Daily Kos as one of your sources, I'm sorry but that sounds alil suspect to me.

[ttogreh]

COTN...

The Daily Kos link was nothing more than a clip of Glenn Beck's show, and a transcript thereof.

The Reddit comment Showed how incredibly blatant the lie was.

ACORN admits openly that the people it hires for eight dollars an hour sometimes aren't the most upstanding of individuals, and routinely sends what IT considers registration fraud to the relevant authorities.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/oct/17/sorting-truth-obama-acorn/

Read that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/may/21/michele-bachmann/bachmann-claims-acorn-has-access-85-billion-federa/

And that.

Edited August 1, 2009 by ttogreh

[creatureofthenyte]

COTN...

The Daily Kos link was nothing more than a clip of Glenn Beck's show, and a transcript thereof.

The Reddit comment Showed how incredibly blatant the lie was.

ACORN admits openly that the people it hires for eight dollars an hour sometimes aren't the most upstanding of individuals, and routinely sends what IT considers registration fraud to the relevant authorities.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/oct/17/sorting-truth-obama-acorn/

Read that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/may/21/michele-bachmann/bachmann-claims-acorn-has-access-85-billion-federa/

And that.

Well I still say they seem suspect to me, given the fact that they won't just say "here's all the info on our organization, knock yourselves out". IF they are corrupt it will come out eventually. I'm gonna wait and see on that.

[Reaper]

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002008/ Watch that. Theeeeennn... read the link beneath this sentence.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/96mvy/someone_please_debunk_this_so_i_may_continue_to/c0blro7

This is why I don't believe the things that Fox News or conservative talk radio or the conservative blogosphere says about ACORN.

They. Make. Shit. Up.

First of all, he didn't make it up (via your source) http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/1/760538/-Beck-conspiracy-theory:-Cash-for-clunkers-site-lets-Feds-control-your-PC

He DOES however, fail to state that the warning that pops up is for dealers when they login. You needed to read further than the initial page.

Second, I will say that he did make the mistake of just saying, "If you want to turn in your clunker, you go to this site and click here." That doesn't tell you if you were a dealer, or an average car owner. He should have made that clear that it was only for the dealer. That much they did stretch the truth on.

Edited for spelling error.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Reaper

[ttogreh]

http://trueslant.com/christopherthomas/2009/08/01/glenn-beck-and-the-governments-fictional-plot-to-hijack-your-computer/

Fox News Makes Shit Up.

[Raev]

It's starting to feel like there is a higher degree of peacocking here, than there is friendly exchange of ideas or discussion of topic.

[n0Mad]

I peed with my cock once ... it was great.

[ttogreh]

Raev, I have a strong opinion, but I am capable of intellectual evolution. The other side of the pole, MSNBC, Olbermann and Matthews... I am ready and willing to hear their atrocities. I want to hear when and how often MSNBC has spewed out yellow journalism, or outright lies, or blatant demagoguery.

All I am getting is half hearted attempts to defend the yellow journalism, outright lies, and blatant demagoguery of Fox news.

Don't blame me if the Peacock network is being used for peacockery. I'm not meeting much resistance.

[Raev]

http://trueslant.com/christopherthomas/2009/08/01/glenn-beck-and-the-governments-fictional-plot-to-hijack-your-computer/

Fox News Makes Shit Up.

Now, I fully believe that you are capable of intellectual evolution but you are just as guilty of peacockery as the other side is. Case in point, the quoted post.

At this point of the conversation all I am seeing is various links being thrown up instead of anybody stating their case clearly then citing their references.

I've seen good, valid and intelligent posts from everyone in this thread here and in other areas. Just hoping to see more of that here and less "Here is a link with no real input from me nor discussion of what is said herein"

[ttogreh]

While I certainly have been lazy in this thread, I feel that one of the reasons I have fallen back on that sin is because I haven't really needed to work. My opinion of Fox news is reaffirmed on a daily basis, while any assault on my chosen world view has been weak and dare I say with a streak of paranoia.

Indeed, ACORN has not been shut down because Obama, while he was a candidate, convinced the Bush administration and the local law enforcement agencies of dozens of states that ACORN was above board.

It's not even a "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy, because the sequence of events is backwards. The time when Obama actually was in a position to unduly influence the investigations, came into effect some more than sixty days after the election.

Then the attacking of DailyKos, Media Matters, Politifact, and the other media watchdogs I have mentioned... Obviously the reason these watchdogs are all saying the same thing isn't because it is the truth... it is because they all have a liberal bias and want to obliterate the non-existent credibility of Fox News...

I might be lazy, but look at my competition.

[TitsMcGee]

While I certainly have been lazy in this thread, I feel that one of the reasons I have fallen back on that sin is because I haven't really needed to work. My opinion of Fox news is reaffirmed on a daily basis, while any assault on my chosen world view has been weak and dare I say with a streak of paranoia.

Indeed, ACORN has not been shut down because Obama, while he was a candidate, convinced the Bush administration and the local law enforcement agencies of dozens of states that ACORN was above board.

It's not even a "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy, because the sequence of events is backwards. The time when Obama actually was in a position to unduly influence the investigations, came into effect some more than sixty days after the election.

Then the attacking of DailyKos, Media Matters, Politifact, and the other media watchdogs I have mentioned... Obviously the reason these watchdogs are all saying the same thing isn't because it is the truth... it is because they all have a liberal bias and want to obliterate the non-existent credibility of Fox News...

I might be lazy, but look at my competition.

Have you considered that the rest of us just don't feel like fighting you about such a trivial issue. You seem to take yourself way too seriously, and frankly after the first time you bit my head off I just refused to want to deal with you on this topic anymore.

[ttogreh]

TM, that was an "ad hominem" logical fallacy. "Ttogreh is mean to me, so I shouldn't even bother to defend my opinions in the face of his aggressive jerkiness."

Look, I fully admit to being an aggressive jerk, but that's no reason to let me run roughshod over your principles. With that in mind, if you actually have substantive evidence of yellow journalism, demagoguery, or outright lies by anyone on MSNBC...

Please. Stand up to a bully and tell him what for, eh?

[TitsMcGee]

TM, that was an "ad hominem" logical fallacy. "Ttogreh is mean to me, so I shouldn't even bother to defend my opinions in the face of his aggressive jerkiness."

Look, I fully admit to being an aggressive jerk, but that's no reason to let me run roughshod over your principles. With that in mind, if you actually have substantive evidence of yellow journalism, demagoguery, or outright lies by anyone on MSNBC...

Please. Stand up to a bully and tell him what for, eh?

Oh it's not that you were "mean" it's just that I frankly don't give a shit. I have way to many other things going on in my life right now to debate with some person I've never really met or talking to that much. And all I wanted to do was point out there are people on the left that are complete assholes like Bill O'Reily.

[Raev]

I'll stand up to a bully and tell him what for (note - the denotes an attempt to use humor).

ttogreh as a fyi - when I posted my statement about peacocking, it wasn't aimed at you or anyone else in particular. So please don't take it as such. The reason I replied to your post specifically after that is because you are the only one who replied to the peacocking comment. I don't know if you felt that I was gunning at you specifically in my original comment or not, I just wanted to clarify that I was speaking in a generalization.

Now, if another Mod or Troy feels that it was unwarranted I'll reopen this topic but at this time I've decided to lock it. As a bystander it appears that this thread is beyond the point of "free exchange of ideas" and friendly conversation.

In the name of maintaining a "play nice" policy that is the standard of the DGN, I'm defusing this powder keg.

<3