Wrong about Barack Obama

[ttogreh]

Of course, that is best done on a macro-economic scale. A local municipality ought to stay under budget while the federal government makes up the short-fall. Indeed, a municipality ought to fund its operations through federal bonds or some other manner.

The smaller the government, the more loudly Friedman is heard. The larger a government, more attention should be paid to Keynes.

Still, both philosophies are two sides of the same coin.

[creatureofthenyte]

It's not so much the pork barrel, it's the inefficient use of funds that we do allocate. Oh, and military spending, considering we outlay more for military budget than the following biggest 15 spenders. That includes China, Russia, Germany, France--hell, we spend twice as much as the entire EU, combined.

My point for mentioning that was, the pork barrel spending that got written into the Economic Recovery/Stimulus bill.

The point of the bill was to spend to get the economy rolling again.

However, the Democrats earmarked funds for Every pet project they've ever wanted to fund.

Can you tell me, how earmarking a few hundred thousand dollars to study the farting habits of pigs is going to stimulate the economy ?

Edited August 4, 2009 by creatureofthenyte

[the eternal]

Here's the irony.

Countless scholars of this philosophy have said Obama has not done ENOUGH!

I know that's crazy for the libertarians and economic conservatives, but since this entire philosophy smacks in the face of what they believe in, any steps in this direction would be outrageous to them.

Obamas move is tantamount to saying

"There's oil 100 feet down. I'm going to dig until I get there"

Conservative response---"There's NO oil there. You can dig 1000 feet and you'll just be wasting time and money.

Focus on the wells running already and stop digging"

Obama "OK then I'll dig 75 feet instead"

?????????

The left outcry as exemplified by

HERE

and

HERE

AND FINALLY HERE where the Nobel award-winner applies Obamas middling on his health care proposal

So, we have Obama who has liberal feelings, but genuinely wanting to show that he's post-partisan,

appealing at least to the conservative democrats (if not the liberal republicans) by compromising on his economic and health plan. (as opposed to Bush who just had his speech writers mad\ke up fancy phrases like "compassionate conservative")

Sure, if you crak a newspaper or look at the stock market, the economy is heading toward recovery, but SLOWWWWLY, and the health care crisis is mired in debate,

and I promise you one thing---the conservatives are not a single bit more warm and fuzzy toward Obama

than if he just went full hog with what he wanted to do.

And because of this, I have no idea, if anything he planned on accomplishing will come to fruition.

I guess I have to have hope.

------

You gotta hand one thing to Bush.

He may have fucked everything up, but at least he went all out and fucked it up every single bit that he planned to

In reference to George W Bush

"He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday."

---Stephen Colbert

[creatureofthenyte]

u gotta hand one thing to Bush.

He may have fucked everything up, but at least he went all out and fucked it up every single bit that he planned to

I guess it's old news now, but when Obama was a senator, most of the stuff that Bush "fucked up", Obama was one of the ones who Voted for it. Case in point the 787 billion dollar bailout bill.(only ten percent of this has been spent, and the economy seems to be coming around, begging the question of did we really need to do this?)

Also, the federal budget deficit is higher now, then it was when Bush was in office.

Also, while selling the Economic stimulus bill, Obama said unemployment would rise to 9% if we did nothing; it's pushing 10% nationally now, and it's going to get even worse. (I believe its 17% in Michigan alone.) So, if things don't turn around soon on the job market etc, Obama is going to dwarf Bush in "accomplishments".

It would be nice to see the government stop spending money we don't have, and not put the next 3-4 generations of Americans in debt.

Edited August 5, 2009 by creatureofthenyte

[the eternal]

Obama's got a lot more to do to catch up to Bush.

---Out CIA agents he doesn't like

---Take away civil liberties

---Put someone as inexperienced as Michael Brown in charge of FEMA, so we can have another Katrina disaster

---Put religious ideology over scientific fact when it comes to energy and health policy

---have someone like disgraced Enron executive Ken Lay shape energy policy

---hire people to head departments who were previously lobbyists that wanted to dismantle those same departments

---ignore facts in search of the neo-con dream of spreading democracy throughout the middleast by

using our brave men and women to pre-emptively attack countries who don't posess WMDs

---cut taxes for the richest people while reducing military benefits for returning soldiers

---de-regulating industries that need oversight

---using terms like axis of 'evil' to destroy any hope of negotiation with other countries

AND

---fostering ill will with nations around the world

to name a few

I'm not saying Obama can't do it.

He just has a lot of work ahead of him.

BTW, bravo to the GOP senators who want to stop the Cash for Clunkers Bill.

It's the only thing with resounding popularity in the past year.

Three months of benefits that Americans lined up for and used in only one week.

Maybe for an encore, they can try to ban cute kitten pictures, since its one of the few other things Americans across the country seem to like.

[phee]

Lol @ eternal

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

---Take away civil liberties

Perhaps you missed his expansion of the Warrentless Wiretapping program or the labeling all ex military as "right wing extremists"

---Put someone as inexperienced as Michael Brown in charge of FEMA, so we can have another Katrina disaster

Does a known Tax cheat as head of the Treasury department count?

---Put religious ideology over scientific fact when it comes to energy and health policy

Oh, So Cap and Trade doesn't count.

---have someone like disgraced Enron executive Ken Lay shape energy policy

Yes, because an openly socialist person is so much better.

---hire people to head departments who were previously lobbyists that wanted to dismantle those same departments

Excuse me? You might want to look at who he has appointed to what. Over half his appointments are lobbyists.

---ignore facts in search of the neo-con dream of spreading democracy throughout the middleast by

using our brave men and women to pre-emptively attack countries who don't posess WMDs

but attacking Pakistan is ok?

---cut taxes for the richest people while reducing military benefits for returning soldiers

CAn you point out what benefits were cut? as for the taxes... thats going to be OK. The Democrats are raising everynoe's taxes to make up for it.

---de-regulating industries that need oversight

Like what? Housing and Loans? Take a deeper look... that was Clinton and the Democrats.

[phee]

I am not a fan of comparing Obama to Bush.... because that really causes a bad curve in the grading scheme. In the same way that comparing any cities mayors with Kwame would.

Obama will be judged on his own merrits and flaws.

[ttogreh]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

No system is perfect. We have to realize that "reform" does not mean "resolution". Indeed, we can assume that any government intervention into American health care now will most certainly be not enough, and that we will have to fight this battle once again in this presidential term.

Indeed, the fact that any reform will not be enough will give the Republicans ammunition. "See?", they will say, "After all that, it still doesn't work. Clearly, we should be in charge, since a system that took 230 years to get where it is at isn't fixed after three years."

And people will believe them. Hopefully not enough people, though...

this morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

That comes from a post in a Something Awful forum.

Edited August 10, 2009 by ttogreh

[Rev.Reverence]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

No system is perfect. We have to realize that "reform" does not mean "resolution". Indeed, we can assume that any government intervention into American health care now will most certainly be not enough, and that we will have to fight this battle once again in this presidential term.

Indeed, the fact that any reform will not be enough will give the Republicans ammunition. "See?", they will say, "After all that, it still doesn't work. Clearly, we should be in charge, since a system that took 230 years to get where it is at isn't fixed after three years."

And people will believe them. Hopefully not enough people, though...

That comes from a post in a Something Awful forum.

NICE POINT

[creatureofthenyte]

Yes, the health care reform bill, in it's current form, Is Something Awefull.

I don't know how anyone else feels, but I don't want the government tapping My bank account through electronic fund transfer, to deduct what they feel is "my fair share" of funding the government run health plan.

Read the bill, page 58 or so; it says that, in legaleaze, that they will tap our bank accounts to help fund their plan.

If that bill passes, it will give the government the power to decide who lives and who dies, by rationing care based upon age.(This is one of the ideas from Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel; Rahm's brother).

We need to wake up. This health care bill is Not about our health care.

It's about control;

the government wants to control every aspect of our lives as it relates to the cost of keeping us healthy; what we eat, what we drink, etc.

I have no desire to live in a "Brave New World" or "1984" or any kind of socialist dictatorship.

Why is Obama trying to ram this bill down our throats in 3 weeks, when it took him 6 Months to pick a damn dog for his kids ???

[Confess]

Yes, the health care reform bill, in it's current form, Is Something Awefull.

I don't know how anyone else feels, but I don't want the government tapping My bank account through electronic fund transfer, to deduct what they feel is "my fair share" of funding the government run health plan.

Read the bill, page 58 or so; it says that, in legaleaze, that they will tap our bank accounts to help fund their plan.

If that bill passes, it will give the government the power to decide who lives and who dies, by rationing care based upon age.(This is one of the ideas from Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel; Rahm's brother).

We need to wake up. This health care bill is Not about our health care.

It's about control;

the government wants to control every aspect of our lives as it relates to the cost of keeping us healthy; what we eat, what we drink, etc.

I have no desire to live in a "Brave New World" or "1984" or any kind of socialist dictatorship.

Why is Obama trying to ram this bill down our throats in 3 weeks, when it took him 6 Months to pick a damn dog for his kids ???

+1 and eleventy billion more.

[Slogo]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

No system is perfect. We have to realize that "reform" does not mean "resolution". Indeed, we can assume that any government intervention into American health care now will most certainly be not enough, and that we will have to fight this battle once again in this presidential term.

Indeed, the fact that any reform will not be enough will give the Republicans ammunition. "See?", they will say, "After all that, it still doesn't work. Clearly, we should be in charge, since a system that took 230 years to get where it is at isn't fixed after three years."

And people will believe them. Hopefully not enough people, though...

That comes from a post in a Something Awful forum.

I also heard recently that someone was at a townhall screaming "KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF OF MY MEDICARE"!

[n0Mad]

Why is Obama trying to ram this bill down our throats in 3 weeks, when it took him 6 Months to pick a damn dog for his kids ???

I would laugh if this point wasn't so valid.

I also heard recently that someone was at a townhall screaming "KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF OF MY MEDICARE"!

I would laugh if this comment wasn't so *face/palm*.

[candyman]

Indeed, the fact that any reform will not be enough will give the Republicans ammunition. "See?", they will say, "After all that, it still doesn't work. Clearly, we should be in charge, since a system that took 230 years to get where it is at isn't fixed after three years."

And people will believe them. Hopefully not enough people, though...

Umm...democrats do the same thing when republican crap doesn't pan out...

Every side takes ammunition when they can because that is the way its been FOREVER unless you have been living under a rock and are one of the people that thinks Obama is "new" and "fresh".

Honestly, even though I couldn't hate either side more than I do now I will have to say that while the republicans take ammunition it seems that the democrats will not only take any ammunition they can, hell they will make their own out of thin air or half the materials. Every side gives the punches but it is starting to piss me off now that the democrats are pulling what I call "the Palestinian" which is where they hurl an attack at the republicans and then fall down holding their nuts crying victim. How many times over the past few years have the democrats pulled the same moves you just described? Hmmm? Is it not fair on the playground when the republicans get to fight back?

Yes there should be at least a few republicans put into office...or wait did the democrats ban republicans yet? Seriously I though that they found out republicans caused cancer in Cali and banned then across the country...

I would type more but thanks to a democratic vote on the smoking ban I have to leave a building where my three other co-workers smoke and there are never customers to have a cigarette...because that is what is BEST for people and the brick walls which could get cancer...thank the wise democrats!

Shit why can't these things REALLY kill me as fast as people say they can?!?!

[ttogreh]

Candyman, I would be less annoyed by the Republicans taking ammunition on this if they actually offered some kind of competing bill. An actual alternative rather than sophomoric astro-turf funding or the spreading of downright lies about the current bill.

All the Republicans are doing is being the party of "No", because they know that whatever reform that does get past won't be enough. A group of obstructionists whose only objective is to maintain their base, which is demographically shrinking, with no substantive ideas at all... is not a political party.

It's a cabal.

[peelingchrome]

Why is Obama trying to ram this bill down our throats in 3 weeks, when it took him 6 Months to pick a damn dog for his kids ???

Good point.

If that bill passes, it will give the government the power to decide who lives and who dies, by rationing care based upon age.(This is one of the ideas from Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel; Rahm's brother).

Also, do I remember correctly that (in the current version) there is to be a Death Board set up? I could be mistaken, but I believe this version makes provisions for a board to decide who lives and who dies based on condition, age, availability of care, and cost of care.

[jynxxxedangel]

All I have to say, to everything, is:

LET ME OUT OF THIS CRAZY COUNTRY!!!!

Things are only going to get worse.

[candyman]

Candyman, I would be less annoyed by the Republicans taking ammunition on this if they actually offered some kind of competing bill. An actual alternative rather than sophomoric astro-turf funding or the spreading of downright lies about the current bill.

All the Republicans are doing is being the party of "No", because they know that whatever reform that does get past won't be enough. A group of obstructionists whose only objective is to maintain their base, which is demographically shrinking, with no substantive ideas at all... is not a political party.

It's a cabal.

What is the point in them offering a bill when they really have no power at all? Its like the kid who gets picked last at recess telling the other kids how the game should be played. If the republicans had a foot in the door and the media and the people were off their back then they probably would offer something...but right now they know its a stupid idea to offer anything to people that won't listen at all. They would be talking to a large brick wall which we all know leads to nothing.

Yes they are saying no...and tell me where in the rules of life its say that "yes" is the only answere? They are allowed to say anything they want and to vote any way they want...it part of their jobs. Being a party of "yes" people would be even worse...like the democrats in Wisconsin that say "yes" to any bill where children and health are mentioned no matter what the rest of the bill says.

I give them democrats a thumbs up for trying...but in politics the road paved with good intentions often leads to hell and I believe they are paving one hell of a freeway to travel on.

[ttogreh]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090810/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_q_a There is no death Panel in the health reform bill.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/06/15/obama-if-you-like-your-doctor-you-can-keep-your-doctor/ There is no provision to force people to change doctors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124580516633344953.html An editorial in the Wall Street Journal, that bastion of conservatism, on why a public option is needed.

This is what it is. It isn't perfect, but there you go.

[phee]

http://news.yahoo.co...end_of_life_q_a There is no death Panel in the health reform bill.

http://blogs.wsj.com...ep-your-doctor/ There is no provision to force people to change doctors.

http://online.wsj.co...6633344953.html An editorial in the Wall Street Journal, that bastion of conservatism, on why a public option is needed.

This is what it is. It isn't perfect, but there you go.

Thank you for the links sir

[creatureofthenyte]

Candyman, I would be less annoyed by the Republicans taking ammunition on this if they actually offered some kind of competing bill. An actual alternative rather than sophomoric astro-turf funding or the spreading of downright lies about the current bill.

All the Republicans are doing is being the party of "No", because they know that whatever reform that does get past won't be enough. A group of obstructionists whose only objective is to maintain their base, which is demographically shrinking, with no substantive ideas at all... is not a political party.

It's a cabal.

The Republicans Can't offer an alternative bill, because Nurse Ratched.. er um Nancy Pelosi won't Allow them to bring one to the floor for debate.

The Republicans are opposed to this bill because it is a BAD bill. They don't want government run health care.

I don't want the government literally having control over Every aspect of my life!!!

Just like I said previously this bill really isn't about Health care, its about Control= 1984, Brave New World.

You watch though, if this bill does pass, and then at some point, it fails, the Democrats won't have the guts to say "oops our bad"; they will just blame it on the Republicans and our nation will suffer for it.

[Reaper]

The Republicans Can't offer an alternative bill, because Nurse Ratched.. er um Nancy Pelosi won't Allow them to bring one to the floor for debate.

The Republicans are opposed to this bill because it is a BAD bill. They don't want government run health care.

I don't want the government literally having control over Every aspect of my life!!!

Just like I said previously this bill really isn't about Health care, its about Control= 1984, Brave New World.

You watch though, if this bill does pass, and then at some point, it fails, the Democrats won't have the guts to say "oops our bad"; they will just blame it on the Republicans and our nation will suffer for it.

I feel this is true as well. Dems are making up for all the time that the REpublicans were in the numbers the first half of the Bush presidency. Been seeing a lot of left wing pushing lately on everything.

[Soulrev]

I've been reading how many problems the GI health care system has been having. If the government can't even manage health care for our soldiers and their families, what makes the government think they can manage health care for all the civilians? Hell, they can't even handle Social Security. No thanks.

Yeah I can share my first hand experience with that. So my wife is pregnant, right? Well, she's also a soldier in the Army stationed here at Ft. Carson. She didn't even know for sure that she was pregnant until she got here in May. They couldn't even get her in to the doctor for her first appointment for over a month from the time she got here.

I, on the other hand, have wisdom teeth coming in and I've been using orajel like it's going out of style and eating tylenol to ease the pain. Aside from the whole run around of switching my tricare to this division from division north when I lived in Indiana, it's just a huge pain in the ass to try to get anything done. I don't think there are as many problems on the family side of military tricare. It's mostly the soldiers. There are ridiculous waiting lists just to get operations and shit done. They are so overbooked that the Army actually gives you a counseling statement if you are late for an appointment by more than 10 minutes and you have to reschedule. So, essentially, the Army is blaming their own soldiers when life happens and they can't make their appointments, because it's so overbooked that it causes trouble when they have to reschedule.

P.S. - don't even get me started on how fucked up the VA is. You no longer serve? You no longer recieve "quick" medical attention. "quick" being a reference to what you would compare active duty medical attention compared to the nightmare that is the VA Clinic. It's sad.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Soulrev

[ttogreh]

Ok.

Canada pays for medical coverage. The doctors are not employed by the government. Canadian doctors have the option to be part of private medical systems. Nearly none do, because while the doctors are not employed by the government, if they want to be paid by the government, they can't be part of a private health system. That's single payer. Canada actually has ten single payer systems, all administered by the provinces.

Britain pays for medical coverage, and also employs the doctors. That's national health care. Once again, private health care is not illegal in Britain, but it is rare. Essentially, the National Health System or Britain would be like if the VA was expanded to all American citizens. That is not what Obama is proposing.

What Obama is proposing is a public option, sort of like the Canadian model, except for one big difference. Doctors can be paid by private insurers, or the government. In other words, the government would directly compete with insurers.

That is why HMOs are so vehemently against the plan that Obama is proposing. It is the first step towards single payer health care.