Wellbutrin is awful

[Rayne]

Again this statement is true... but not for everyone...

There are some people who need to be given something to balance their brain chemicals there whole lives, some people who are having temporary depression who do not need drugs more than a little while.

Everyone is different. And either viewpoint when take to its extreme can actually kill you. Subscribing to a generalized statement is usually not a good idea.

Caffine, Pot, and Alcohol are drugs too... I would never tell someone to never drink, smoke, or drink coffee, anymore then I would tell them to never take pills for an issue like depression or psychosis, some need it short term, some need it longer... that is not up to me, its up to their own situation. I know that I don't drink, I don't smoke, but I do eat chocolate, drink soda, and coffee.... But just because I don't it does not give me the right to tell others how to live.

So, that being said... don't get hopelessly brainwashed by either side of the argument... or any argument for that matter

He said it better than I did. I blame the BlackBerry keyboard, so much more I want to say but I get frustrated with the tiny keyboard and generalize it all.

[bean]

I have anxiety, and the only thing that has helped me is medication. Therapy only helped a little bit - it didn't help the anxiety enough for me to be able to function properly.

Edited September 8, 2009 by bean water

[Tacohitts]

This is why I have an extreme hatred towards corporate garbage drugs,the side effects are worse than the problem you are trying to treat,I am better off with weed and getting enough sleep,lack of sleep can trigger depression.I refuse to ever take that pharmicutical corporate crap ever again.hope the best for you.

[phee]

This is why I have an extreme hatred towards corporate garbage drugs,the side effects are worse than the problem you are trying to treat,I am better off with weed and getting enough sleep,lack of sleep can trigger depression.I refuse to ever take that pharmicutical corporate crap ever again.hope the best for you.

Yes this is also a point of view that states smoking weed and sleeping a lot is the way to go....

[Tacohitts]

Smoking weed does work for everyone either,but western medicine I will still never trust,there is also electro convulsive therapy that has been proven to work better(no drugs required) than garbage pills,and the success rate is much better as well.F--- Phizer,F--- Upjohn,and and any other corporate corrupt pharmicutical giant where most of their products side effects are more lethal than the disease you are treating.

[phee]

I think what it comes down to is....

Have you researched what you are putting in your body? Have you talked to doctors, loved ones, friends, priests, who ever you might trust before you made your decision about how to address your problem?

Do you know what it means to take drugs for psychological disorders?

Do you know what it means to have a psychological disorder and not take drugs for it?

Is wholistic medicine a valid form of treating the issue in your findings?

And if you are happy without hurting yourself or others, then great! But only one person can decide that and thats you.

(On a side note, *and I believe you meant 'pfizer' as I am not familiar with phizer* pfizer and upjohn perhaps are a bit shadey yes... and the drugs do have unwanted side effects that are worse on some people more then on others.... BUT.... Most of the people who deal street drugs are generally considered pretty shadey as well, and doing what they give you can have unwelcome side effects as well, such as jail, being laced with stuff, etc..... I think perhaps the effects of smoking weed is worthy of another subject... )

[bean]

Smoking weed does work for everyone either,but western medicine I will still never trust,there is also electro convulsive therapy that has been proven to work better(no drugs required) than garbage pills,and the success rate is much better as well.F--- Phizer,F--- Upjohn,and and any other corporate corrupt pharmicutical giant where most of their products side effects are more lethal than the disease you are treating.

Electroconvuslive Therapy is most often used as a treatment for severe major depression which has not responded to other treatment, and is also used in the treatment of mania (often in bipolar disorder), catatonia and schizophrenia. Drugs are then used after the ECT is used. ECT can cause permanent memory loss.

By the way, excessive sleep is a sign of depression, and smoking pot is only a temporary fix.

Yes, some people have an adverse reaction to medications, but for many people, it is the difference between being able to function properly and not being able to function at all.

The mind is a very tricky thing. It takes a good doctor and some tinkering around to find out what medication works best for you.

Pot and sleep never worked for me or many other people. Medication did. There are too many loose cannons flying around that need either herbal remedies or pharmaceutical medications so that they are well.

Edited September 8, 2009 by bean water

[phee]

What people seem to forget as well is that most of what is being talked about is a medical problem, not a lifestyle choice.

Deciding whether or not an condo or a house is right for you, or whether or not to drink socially at the next party = lifestyle choice.

Deciding wheter or not to have a psychological condition go treated or not, or how to treat it = medical choice. (Not to be taken lightly)

http://www.craegmoor.co.uk/news/industry/19342576/depression_to_be_biggest_health_problem_in_20_years.aspx

[bean]

What people seem to forget as well is that most of what is being talked about is a medical problem, not a lifestyle choice.

Deciding whether or not an condo or a house is right for you, or whether or not to drink socially at the next party = lifestyle choice.

Deciding wheter or not to have a psychological condition go treated or not, or how to treat it = medical choice. (Not to be taken lightly)

http://www.craegmoor.co.uk/news/industry/19342576/depression_to_be_biggest_health_problem_in_20_years.aspx

+1,000,000

[Oh_My_Goth]

I disagree. There are people with chronic or clinical illnesses that can only cope for so long without the medication. It doesn't mean they are weak or can't cope, it just means they need it to live a more normal and satisfying life.

Chronic issues are the driving force behind Me becoming a Holistic practitioner, with the specialization in mental issues.

I have known people who are extremely sick that do very well in a healthy, supportive environment.. Without drugs.

The drugs being pumped into theses people are killing them. {PERIOD}

The liver can only take so much abuse before it fails.

Medication has become a crutch for many people on them.. People just can't "deal" with every day life so they take these drugs to do the coping for them... & Yes, this is a sign of weakness.

I was weak for some time & Got help to be strong again... When I was better, I put down that crutch.

I'm not saying that everyone who takes Meds is abusing them, but most are.

----------------------------------------------------

While I'm ranting, it also disgusts me that these drugs are so accepted as "normal" and OK.. People are putting their children on them. Like people putting their teenagers on antidepressants.. WTF??

Teenagers get depressed, it's called hormones... Shit I have seen people put young children on Meds... Like Ritalin...

I'm sorry, but children are naturally distracted.. They are trying to take everything in, there is just more to take in the modern world. They need guidance & individualized attention. NOT drugs.

**Which supports my ongoing over-population rant**

We teach our children that drugs are bad, except if a Doctor gives them to you.

I just want people to know that there is an alternative..

Treat the body has a whole *Mind, Body, & Spirit*

Again I say, I am in no way saying that all who are on Meds are abusing them, they do have their place.

I just think more people need to recognize that their issues can be helped in other ways.. It seems society has just taken to answering their issues with a pill, and that makes Me very sad.

[phee]

Chronic issues are the driving force behind Me becoming a Holistic practitioner, with the specialization in mental issues.

I have known people who are extremely sick that do very well in a healthy, supportive environment.. Without drugs.

The drugs being pumped into theses people are killing them. {PERIOD}

The liver can only take so much abuse before it fails.

Medication has become a crutch for many people on them.. People just can't "deal" with every day life so they take these drugs to do the coping for them... & Yes, this is a sign of weakness.

I was weak for some time & Got help to be strong again... When I was better, I put down that crutch.

I'm not saying that everyone who takes Meds is abusing them, but most are.

----------------------------------------------------

While I'm ranting, it also disgusts me that these drugs are so accepted as "normal" and OK.. People are putting their children on them. Like people putting their teenagers on antidepressants.. WTF??

Teenagers get depressed, it's called hormones... Shit I have seen people put young children on Meds... Like Ritalin...

I'm sorry, but children are naturally distracted.. They are trying to take everything in, there is just more to take in the modern world. They need guidance & individualized attention. NOT drugs.

**Which supports my ongoing over-population rant**

We teach our children that drugs are bad, except if a Doctor gives them to you.

I just want people to know that there is an alternative..

Treat the body has a whole *Mind, Body, & Spirit*

Again I say, I am in no way saying that all who are on Meds are abusing them, they do have their place.

I just think more people need to recognize that their issues can be helped in other ways.. It seems society has just taken to answering their issues with a pill, and that makes Me very sad.

I am sorry but I have to say that someone who is mentally ill seeking help is a sign of weekness is a a bit counterproductive.

Any medication can and has been abused, no one is disagreeing there.

But when a child (to use your example) is beyond distracted, has issues that go beyond simple guidence, or the range that holistic medicine can address.... if the situation is ignored and there is help available that is simply brushed off as "throwing pills at the issue" the term for that is abuse or at best neglect.

As I have said there is no ONE answer to something as complex as mentel health. Simply throwing pills and an issue to make life "easier" as opposed to addresssing the issue is as bad as ignoring the fact that some medications can and have helped people when used WITH, NOT INSTEAD OF, healthy behavior and a positive environment.

When people put there beliefs before their health in either direction... either by over medicating, or by not addressing that something that needs medication... there is a problem.

We (as in myself and my family) teach our children (because I am not going to make the mistake of over generalization) that drugs are bad IF taken as recreation, OR if they are abused AND the person who gives them to you doesn't have the education to understand what they are giving you (which means I will trust a doctor more often then the one dude who lives on my corner).

Call me brainwashed or call me wrong, thats fine to have your opinion... but there are a few things that I know.... I know that several members of my family got better and are better because they got the proper treatment, and did not take either sides dogma at face value.

Someone not getting the medication necessary can kill that person, as well as put others in danger who are around that person {PERIOD}

Some teenagers (if not most) have depression that is caused by hormones yes... and some have other issues that go deeper, when my children become teenagers I am not going to blow off their issues as hormones... I am going to try and help them, and find out if it is just hormones, a tough time, or something worse... I think that makes me a good parent as opposed to one who lets their beliefs keep them in ignorance.

But by all means... DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.... Find out for yourselves, look it up from several perspectives.... and come to your own decision.

I know what I put myself and others through when I am not medicated properly and when I am not in therapy... I am not going to put myself or them through that again. I am going to excercise more, talk out my issues more, perhaps do more yoga (as I do some now)... But I am not going to discard my medication, and in my case the abuse I have experienced was self abuse, when I STOPPED TAKING THEM. (So no I don't put myself into the catagory of a medicine abuser).

[Rayne]

Chronic issues are the driving force behind Me becoming a Holistic practitioner, with the specialization in mental issues.

I have known people who are extremely sick that do very well in a healthy, supportive environment.. Without drugs.

The drugs being pumped into theses people are killing them. {PERIOD}

The liver can only take so much abuse before it fails.

Medication has become a crutch for many people on them.. People just can't "deal" with every day life so they take these drugs to do the coping for them... & Yes, this is a sign of weakness.

I was weak for some time & Got help to be strong again... When I was better, I put down that crutch.

I'm not saying that everyone who takes Meds is abusing them, but most are.

----------------------------------------------------

While I'm ranting, it also disgusts me that these drugs are so accepted as "normal" and OK.. People are putting their children on them. Like people putting their teenagers on antidepressants.. WTF??

Teenagers get depressed, it's called hormones... Shit I have seen people put young children on Meds... Like Ritalin...

I'm sorry, but children are naturally distracted.. They are trying to take everything in, there is just more to take in the modern world. They need guidance & individualized attention. NOT drugs.

**Which supports my ongoing over-population rant**

We teach our children that drugs are bad, except if a Doctor gives them to you.

I just want people to know that there is an alternative..

Treat the body has a whole *Mind, Body, & Spirit*

Again I say, I am in no way saying that all who are on Meds are abusing them, they do have their place.

I just think more people need to recognize that their issues can be helped in other ways.. It seems society has just taken to answering their issues with a pill, and that makes Me very sad.

My daughter (as an example) has MULTIPLE psychological disorders. She was diagnosed at THREE with the majourity, and a few more as she got older. She's been on meds since she was 5 and in regular therapy since she was 4. To say that giving my daughter her medication which keep her able to function in society is "disgusting" is ignorant. My daughter tried to hurt herself. She has tried to hurt others. She had a brief stay in a psychiatric hospital at NINE YEARS OLD!

My mother tried to kill herself when I was 5. I had to call 911. She had taken herself off of her medication. She has clinical depression. She will NEVER be off of medication.

You're entitled to your own opinion ... and if that works for you, that's great ... but, you really have no idea.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Rayne

[Rev.Reverence]

Ya'll are f-in' funny as hell arguing this.....you are all wrong, & right, in certain instances (sometimes in the same sentence.)

I like the middle of the road on this issue.

I have more to say...but, no time at the now.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Rev.Reverence

[phee]

Ya'll are f-in' funny as hell arguing this.....you are all wrong, & right, in certain instances (sometimes in the same sentence.)

I like the middle of the road on this issue.

I have more to say...but, no time at the now.

(I AGREE)

Kind of what I have been saying.... don't fall into either side of the dogma...

Treatment, good environment, meds if needed, excercise...etc...

[Oh_My_Goth]

My daughter (as an example) has MULTIPLE psychological disorders. She was diagnosed at THREE with the majourity, and a few more as she got older. She's been on meds since she was 5 and in regular therapy since she was 4. To say that giving my daughter her medication which keep her able to function in society is "disgusting" is ignorant. My daughter tried to hurt herself. She has tried to hurt others. She had a brief stay in a psychiatric hospital at NINE YEARS OLD!

My mother tried to kill herself when I was 5. I had to call 911. She had taken herself off of her medication. She has clinical depression. She will NEVER be off of medication.

You're entitled to your own opinion ... and if that works for you, that's great ... but, you really have no idea.

I really don't think you have the right to tell Me what I do & don't know.. You don't know Me or anything about what I have seen, or have been through.

There are other ways then Meds... Evidently that is a subject you know nothing about.

Sorry if I seem defensive, but I am not ignorant. Actually, I am quite educated on the subject of mental issues in children and adults.

[Rayne]

I really don't think you have the right to tell Me what I do & don't know.. You don't know Me or anything about what I have seen, or have been through.

There are other ways then Meds... Evidently that is a subject you know nothing about.

Sorry if I seem defensive, but I am not ignorant. Actually, I am quite educated on the subject of mental issues in children and adults.

I don't ... you're right. I don't buy into it and frankly, I, personally never will. I have several medical conditions myself and I'm sorry if I value my life enough to take the advice from the professional who went to school for many years to be licensed to do it.

I chose to get myself and my children treated by licensed professionals. There's nothing unacceptable about that, as you seem to believe there is.

You called me "disgusting" for treating my psychotic daughter with medication ... when that has been the only thing (along WITH therapy) that has HELPED her.

What you do to yourself is your own decision, but don't tell me I am wrong for doing what I believe is the right thing.

[phee]

I really don't think you have the right to tell Me what I do & don't know.. You don't know Me or anything about what I have seen, or have been through.

There are other ways then Meds... Evidently that is a subject you know nothing about.

Sorry if I seem defensive, but I am not ignorant. Actually, I am quite educated on the subject of mental issues in children and adults.

I think she is not telling you what you do and do not know in general.

but she knows for sure that you don't know her daughters situation (which is what she was saying) that is a safe assumption.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I am sorry but I have to say that someone who is mentally ill seeking help is a sign of weekness is a a bit counterproductive.

Any medication can and has been abused, no one is disagreeing there.

But when a child (to use your example) is beyond distracted, has issues that go beyond simple guidence, or the range that holistic medicine can address.... if the situation is ignored and there is help available that is simply brushed off as "throwing pills at the issue" the term for that is abuse or at best neglect.

As I have said there is no ONE answer to something as complex as mentel health. Simply throwing pills and an issue to make life "easier" as opposed to addresssing the issue is as bad as ignoring the fact that some medications can and have helped people when used WITH, NOT INSTEAD OF, healthy behavior and a positive environment.

When people put there beliefs before their health in either direction... either by over medicating, or by not addressing that something that needs medication... there is a problem.

We (as in myself and my family) teach our children (because I am not going to make the mistake of over generalization) that drugs are bad IF taken as recreation, OR if they are abused AND the person who gives them to you doesn't have the education to understand what they are giving you (which means I will trust a doctor more often then the one dude who lives on my corner).

Call me brainwashed or call me wrong, thats fine to have your opinion... but there are a few things that I know.... I know that several members of my family got better and are better because they got the proper treatment, and did not take either sides dogma at face value.

Someone not getting the medication necessary can kill that person, as well as put others in danger who are around that person {PERIOD}

Some teenagers (if not most) have depression that is caused by hormones yes... and some have other issues that go deeper, when my children become teenagers I am not going to blow off their issues as hormones... I am going to try and help them, and find out if it is just hormones, a tough time, or something worse... I think that makes me a good parent as opposed to one who lets their beliefs keep them in ignorance.

But by all means... DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.... Find out for yourselves, look it up from several perspectives.... and come to your own decision.

I know what I put myself and others through when I am not medicated properly and when I am not in therapy... I am not going to put myself or them through that again. I am going to excercise more, talk out my issues more, perhaps do more yoga (as I do some now)... But I am not going to discard my medication, and in my case the abuse I have experienced was self abuse, when I STOPPED TAKING THEM. (So no I don't put myself into the catagory of a medicine abuser).

I didn't say that

That's great.. But if they are still on Meds, they are not better.

& Just to be sure people understand.. I did say Meds DO have their place..

I'm just saying that it is not a permanent solution to any issue.

& Most people should educated themselves on the side effects of theses drugs & what they are doing to their bodies... You cannot heal the entire self by destroying the body.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I don't ... you're right. I don't buy into it and frankly, I, personally never will. I have several medical conditions myself and I'm sorry if I value my life enough to take the advice from the professional who went to school for many years to be licensed to do it.

I chose to get myself and my children treated by licensed professionals. There's nothing unacceptable about that, as you seem to believe there is.

You called me "disgusting" for treating my psychotic daughter with medication ... when that has been the only thing (along WITH therapy) that has HELPED her.

What you do to yourself is your own decision, but don't tell me I am wrong for doing what I believe is the right thing.

You don't buy into healing the entire body? I guess I can't understand that.

Holistic practitioners are licensed professionals.

We are all about healing the entire self.. I have seen some amazing things happen to people through proper diet & care.. Very sick people.

& I did not say it was unacceptable to get care from a Doctor.

I will just stop now because it is useless to discuss this subject when I'm just going to get attacked for knowing people can be helped through the balance of the mind, body, & spirit.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I only speak the truth of what I know.

[phee]

Oh I agree....

BUT some problems CANNOT be cured.... but they CAN be treated.... some people do need to be on medications the rest of their lives... Some peoples psychological problems are medical... A diabetic has to be on meds the rest of their lives, for example, the meds don't cure the diabetes... but they do treat it.

I am not taking my meds to cure me... I am taking my meds to continue to exist and not abuse myself.

And what you did say was this:

Medication has become a crutch for many people on them.. People just can't "deal" with every day life so they take these drugs to do the coping for them... & Yes, this is a sign of weakness.

.

Some people don't have chemical imbalances in their brains which make everyday life a struggle... those people should not take meds all the time.

I do... a lot of my family does.

To not seek treatment for an issue is weakness, to live in denial and ignorance to the possiblilities that might help SOME people, is weekness... For every parent I have seen overmedicating their kids, I have seen one doing nothing to help their kids with their issues and get the proper treatment... either way it is abuse.

People who don't help themselves or thier kids who actually need treatment are letting their own pride damage their health and that of those they love.

Telling people to stop taking their meds, without the proper education, licencing, and knowledge of the situation... would be the same as someone telling a stranger's kids to put their kids on medications XYZ without the proper education, licencing, and knowledge of their situation. BOTH ARE DANGEROUS

[phee]

You don't buy into healing the entire body? I guess I can't understand that.

Holistic practitioners are licensed professionals.

We are all about healing the entire self.. I have seen some amazing things happen to people through proper diet & care.. Very sick people.

& I did not say it was unacceptable to get care from a Doctor.

I will just stop now because it is useless to discuss this subject when I'm just going to get attacked for knowing people can be helped through the balance of the mind, body, & spirit.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I only speak the truth of what I know.

Where has anyone talked about NOT healing the entire self? Sorry I must be missing something. :s

[freydis]

Holistic practitioners are licensed professionals.

There's a big difference between having a license and a doctorate.

[phee]

You don't buy into healing the entire body? I guess I can't understand that.

Holistic practitioners are licensed professionals.

We are all about healing the entire self.. I have seen some amazing things happen to people through proper diet & care.. Very sick people.

& I did not say it was unacceptable to get care from a Doctor.

I will just stop now because it is useless to discuss this subject when I'm just going to get attacked for knowing people can be helped through the balance of the mind, body, & spirit.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but I only speak the truth of what I know.

One last question.... (because I am honestly curious) Holistic practitioners.... who are they licenced by? Can insurance cover the treatments? Are the treatments recognized by the scientific community as medicinal? (I belive some of them are...)

But again.... who is arguing against proper diet and care that you are disagreeing with? Who is saying they are not not trying to be helped by mind, body, and spirit?

[bean]

I'm all for holistic methods to treat mental illness - it works for some people, but it didn't work for me.

I'm all for medication AND therapy to treat mental illness - it works for some people, and it worked for me.

The only way I function at my peak is with a combination of medication (and I take them as prescribed. I DO NOT abuse them) and therapy. Even though I am medicated for anxiety, there are still little things in life that make me anxious and I had to learn coping skills for when those things happen. There are also psychological reasons (aside from chemical) for my anxiety that I had to work through.

I have sleep issues. I used to wake up every hour on the hour, so I was only getting 2-3 hours of sleep at night. The pill I take for sleep is non-habit forming, and I get a full 8 hours of sleep at night. Do you know what it's like to go years without sleeping properly? It's a fucking nightmare. I tried meditation and herbs to sleep, and it just didn't work for me.

But that doesn't mean that meditation and herbs wouldn't work for someone else, or that pharmaceutical medication is the answer for everyone.

*shrugs* Can we all just get along?

Edited September 9, 2009 by bean water

[pomba gira]

I agree with just about everything Phee has said... especially the parts about finding a balance. I will just add that I feel it's extremely irresponsible to even suggest that people are weak for taking antidepressants or other psych meds. There is enough stigma around seeking help for this kind of problem without that. I will also point out that, as has been demonstrated before, it's impossible to make that kind of statement without deeply insulting many of us on this board. Some of us are alive and functional solely because we took the responsibility for seeking, and sticking with, an appropriate treatment for our condition. We chose to take control of our own destiny and that is NEVER weakness.