Nationalized Healthcare.

[Guest Megalicious]

So I have to do this paper for this Nursing class and what does the lady sick me with? - Nationalized Healthcare.

I know how I feel, however it must be well rounded paper.

I want to know what YOU think.

If not nationalized healthcare, what can be used as a possible solution?

If you are for Nationalized Healthcare - Why? Have you been uninsured? Have you had a personal negative experience with being uninsured?

All thoughts, debate, and ideas are welcome as long as it stays civil

I have most of the paper done, I just wanted added input and different view points.

Don't want share how you feel publicly?- shoot me a PM.

[pomba gira]

If we had a decent health care system, I would still have my teeth. Or at least I would be able to get a partial, and save the remaining ones (what you see when I smile) from the stress that will probably do away with them, too.

I would not have come close to suicide due to not being able to afford my meds last time I was unemployed.

My mother's dear friend would not have died.

Those are my immediate personal experiences. I could go on at much greater length if I wanted to relate experiences of my students' families.

There is at least one person here better qualified to discuss people being financially ruined by medical bills, so I'll leave that part to him.

Truthfully, it's hard to give a rat's ass about the hows and details and labels... if other countries can manage it, then by god so can we. If we have all this loot to spend on killing people on the other side of the world, we can come up with enough to take care of our own people. At this point, for me all the debate fades before this: all I can think of is being a toothless hag before I'm 50, and how crazy I'm going to be when I run out of meds in another month or so.

[creatureofthenyte]

One of, if not The main reason why we haven't been able to afford to do healthcare reform in this country, I think, is because the government still refuses to stop spending Bajillions of dollars on pork-barrel pet spending projects.

My opinion, if you want to know what Nationalized healthcare would be like, look at Canada.

If the government would allow tort reform, that would bring down cost, and make insurance available to more people.

If we could shop for insurance plans from all over the nation, THAT would drive up competition, and drive down costs.

I think the real motive behind the current adminstrations push to get this healthcare reform done(in its current form) is to bring this country to a point where, most of the US people,if not all of us, are either Working for the government, Or Living off the government.

I feel that this health care initiative that the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats before we have a chance to read it, is their way of getting their foot in the door to establish total control over every aspect of our lives.

I think the Democrats are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

I think health care should get reformed; but reformed Properly, NOT hastily.

[phee]

If we had a decent health care system, I would still have my teeth. Or at least I would be able to get a partial, and save the remaining ones (what you see when I smile) from the stress that will probably do away with them, too.

I would not have come close to suicide due to not being able to afford my meds last time I was unemployed.

My mother's dear friend would not have died.

Those are my immediate personal experiences. I could go on at much greater length if I wanted to relate experiences of my students' families.

There is at least one person here better qualified to discuss people being financially ruined by medical bills, so I'll leave that part to him.

Truthfully, it's hard to give a rat's ass about the hows and details and labels... if other countries can manage it, then by god so can we. If we have all this loot to spend on killing people on the other side of the world, we can come up with enough to take care of our own people. At this point, for me all the debate fades before this: all I can think of is being a toothless hag before I'm 50, and how crazy I'm going to be when I run out of meds in another month or so.

I can think of a lot of people who's lives would be better with Nationalized Healthcare.... And you have to start somewhere.

[Raev]

My life would be better with it.

At 24 I was too poor to afford insurance and made too much to get financial assistance.

I was diagnosed with a tumor. Oakwood Hospital wouldn't perform surgery on my head to remove it until either

a) my life was in IMMANENT danger or

b) I had to come up with $20,000 up front.

You don't want to know what the final bill was, or how many more decades I have to go until it's paid off.

[creatureofthenyte]

I can think of a lot of people who's lives would be better with Nationalized Healthcare.... And you have to start somewhere.

Phee,

I agree with you, we have to start somewhere.

BUT....so many citizens of other countries, like Canadians for example, come to America for their health care needs.

Tell me if you can, how being in a system that makes people wait for needed medical procedures, how would our lives be Better??

I just saw a woman from Canada on the Neil Cavuto show (yesterday I think it was). She came here to America to have brain surgery.

Canada was going to make her wait.

She readily admitted that if she had not come to America to get the care she needed, she would have been DEAD.

If we want to provide coverage to more or all our citizens, we MUST stop the bs spending, and that is something the Democrats just can't seem to grasp.

[bean]

What Phee said.

I am FOR Nationalized Healthcare.

I went for years without insurance. It was awful.

There were times when I really needed to go to the doctor, but didn't because I couldn't afford to go.

I went without medication because I couldn't afford it, when I really should have been on it for my anxiety and depression.

NO ONE should have to go without insurance.

I'm sending you a PM Meg, with all the gory details.

Edited September 25, 2009 by bean water

[Raev]

Phee,

I agree with you, we have to start somewhere.

BUT....so many citizens of other countries, like Canadians for example, come to America for their health care needs.

One of my customers at work is a Canadian woman that is reading this over my shoulder right now. I had her look at this. Her comment -

"For cosmetics we will come over here but that's it. Anything important or urgent, it's stupid to come to the States unless it's highly specialized and there just isn't a doctor around who CAN do it"

Also -

I just saw a woman from Canada on the Neil Cavuto show (yesterday I think it was). She came here to America to have brain surgery.

Canada was going to make her wait.

her reply is -

"She must have lived in the middle of nowhere or something. Over in Windsor, this doesn't happen"

Edited September 25, 2009 by Raev

[phee]

Phee,

I agree with you, we have to start somewhere.

BUT....so many citizens of other countries, like Canadians for example, come to America for their health care needs.

Tell me if you can, how being in a system that makes people wait for needed medical procedures, how would our lives be Better??

I just saw a woman from Canada on the Neil Cavuto show (yesterday I think it was). She came here to America to have brain surgery.

Canada was going to make her wait.

She readily admitted that if she had not come to America to get the care she needed, she would have been DEAD.

If we want to provide coverage to more or all our citizens, we MUST stop the bs spending, and that is something the Democrats just can't seem to grasp.

I am not saying that our medical care here is not good (WHEN ONE CAN AFFORD IT) or that our doctors are not skilled (WHEN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FILTHY RICH)...

A system that makes people wait for medical proceedures is SO MUCH better then one that denies it to whole chunks of the population all together, and just lets them die because of monitary constraints. No system is perfect, but making someone wait for a proceedure makes their lives better then simply saying, NO we don't cover that because you don't pay enough of a premium.

And as far as the Canadian woman... good for her, I am glad she had enough resources in her bank account to bipass her imperfect system, and take advantage of our even less then perfect one.

(and yes I am FOR nationalization of healthcare)

[bean]

I am not saying that our medical care here is not good (WHEN ONE CAN AFFORD IT) or that our doctors are not skilled (WHEN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FILTHY RICH)...

A system that makes people wait for medical proceedures is SO MUCH better then one that denies it to whole chunks of the population all together, and just lets them die because of monitary constraints. No system is perfect, but making someone wait for a proceedure makes their lives better then simply saying, NO we don't cover that because you don't pay enough of a premium.

And as far as the Canadian woman... good for her, I am glad she had enough resources in her bank account to bipass her imperfect system, and take advantage of our even less then perfect one.

(and yes I am FOR nationalization of healthcare)

[Raev]

A final thought added by my customer here -

"For what it's worth, on the rare occasion one of us has to go to the States for an emergency surgery or something highly specialized where there are just very few of that kind of doctor our governments insurance still pays for it"

[candyman]

I never knew you had to be filthy rich to recieve some sort of insurance coverage...must have someone funding me behind my back.

Not really into the whole healthcare things they got going on. I know people with insurance and people without insurance...but none of those people are really excited about this bill. There WAS a bill that they were interesten in but it wasn't really looked at because the economy was kinda doing well.

My opinion is that the government, even though it won't have full control, can't seem to play nice with any of the toys it has now so they need to learn how to play nice before we give them this very important toy...which happens to be a loaded pistol that could kill them if they don't play well with it.

Once the government learns that the only money that should be placed near the vagina of that high class hooker is the money that they earned then they can work with this...but once they stop having people like me pay to get them laid then I think that they might stop having money problems which will create a terrible chain reaction of somewhat proper funding for important programs with a few turns off of the taxing thumb screws on us.

This is cause and effect...the cause is greed and the effect is that people suffer...the only problem is that we are not looking at where the greed actually is and are just delaying the shovel full of shit that will hit us a little later down the road. If we want to kill the source then this is not the way to do it...this is a dirty field dressing.

[phee]

BTW... the healthcare bill they are working on now...

[Reaper]

Though I am not sure which side of this issue I am on, I do have to acknowledge that I can see why insurance companies do not want nationalized healthcare, because they stand to lose money by means of competitive government money. One thing they DO need is tort reform so doctors are not sued out of existence. I DO agree that people without insurance should have access, but the BIG question remains: How do we pay for it?

I have worked many jobs where I have paid to have health insurance and can say I have rarely ever had to use it. I certainly don't want to be taxed to death just to cover those that COULD work, but don't because life is easier on food stamps and government assistance. I would gladly pay money into a third party fund that would help those in general need of healthcare. Personally, I would rather see that happen rather than force everyone to lose their ass to taxation.

[phee]

Perhaps healthcare and how to pay for it is just part of a larger issue....

[pomba gira]

One of my customers at work is a Canadian woman that is reading this over my shoulder right now. I had her look at this. Her comment -

"For cosmetics we will come over here but that's it. Anything important or urgent, it's stupid to come to the States unless it's highly specialized and there just isn't a doctor around who CAN do it"

Also -

her reply is -

"She must have lived in the middle of nowhere or something. Over in Windsor, this doesn't happen"

That matches what I've heard from the many Canadian citizens who are Cherry Lane members... I was curious so I did a lot of asking last summer.

[candyman]

Perhaps healthcare and how to pay for it is just part of a larger issue....

It isn't a large issue...its alot of small ones that are just being lumped together and the specifics that will actually fix them are being ignored. Most of the blame is being put on healthcare providers...and I even hear things about how doctors and others are making it worse. As long as those are the only things we want to change things will never get better. Our healthcare system has many "cancer spots" and we can either keep things the way they are and treat that cancer which will make things better...or we can change the way things are and just move the cancer around a little.

Thats the way I see it at least...we a beating around the bush.

[phee]

I never knew you had to be filthy rich to recieve some sort of insurance coverage...must have someone funding me behind my back.

Let me put it this way without getting into personal details....

I know a woman who had a surgery done for the sake of her overall health, and hooray! the insurance she had covered it. This surgery was supposed to fix her issue for good.

A few years later, the surgery they did, for lack of a better word "came undone" and she was right back where she started... So she went to the doctor, the doctor said that they would repair the damage....BUT.... The insurance company, said they would only pay for that surgery once.... and because her condition is not immediatly life threatening... They gave a big flat NO to covering her corrective surgery.... in other words, if she wanted to fix the issue... EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD INSURANCE THROUGH AN EMPLOYER.... she had to pay for it out of pocket (roughly $20,000.00)! So even with her private insurance... she could not have the surgery... and is still living with the consequences to this day.

So yes... she is not filthy rich... and yes she recieved (as you said) "some" insurance coverage... but she is still not being given the option... say maybe a "PUBLIC OPTION" that might be to her benifit.

Oh and as far as her other insurance companies... she has the magical "pre-existing condition" which means they won't insure her now (because of the botched surgery) and even if they will... the premiums would require her to be as you put it "filthy rich."

Once the government learns that the only money that should be placed near the vagina of that high class hooker is the money that they earned then they can work with this...but once they stop having people like me pay to get them laid then I think that they might stop having money problems which will create a terrible chain reaction of somewhat proper funding for important programs with a few turns off of the taxing thumb screws on us.

I am not sure what you are saying here... are you saying that the only ones who should get health insurance are those who meet someone's standards of "deserving it"?

[creatureofthenyte]

I am not saying that our medical care here is not good (WHEN ONE CAN AFFORD IT) or that our doctors are not skilled (WHEN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FILTHY RICH)...

A system that makes people wait for medical proceedures is SO MUCH better then one that denies it to whole chunks of the population all together, and just lets them die because of monitary constraints. No system is perfect, but making someone wait for a proceedure makes their lives better then simply saying, NO we don't cover that because you don't pay enough of a premium.

And as far as the Canadian woman... good for her, I am glad she had enough resources in her bank account to bipass her imperfect system, and take advantage of our even less then perfect one.

(and yes I am FOR nationalization of healthcare)

What if a person, who is covered by a system that makes them wait for a medical procedure, DIES while they're waiting?

A system like that is No better then a system that denies coverage due to monetary constraints; they're essentially the same thing.

The US government can't successfully run Anything. Look at the Postal service; bankrupt. Look at Amtrak.

Look at the Cash for Clunkers program. And you want them to be in charge of 1/6th of the total economy ?

If the Government controls health care, the government will control our lives, and our freedom to live our lives as we choose to, will be Gone; How is that better ?

[Onyx]

If Canada and many other countries can provide health care we can also.

I'm personally doing without medicine I really need and so is my mother and so are many of my friends. (Imitrex for migraines). I miss work on a regular basis without it and go through a lot of needless suffering because I can only afford enough to treat about 1/4 of the migraines I get.

Living without health insurance in this country can be hell. They make it so that if you live in a halfway decent neighborhood you can't qualify for any help because of your income. I refuse to live in a shitty place because of my kids, so I do without health care now.

Dental care would be lovely too! I lost a cap right as the economy crashed and lost my job, and haven't been able to come up with the 700 to 1000 I need to get it replaced, so I'm living with a jagged edge of a tooth where the cap was that cuts my tongue when I try to chew.

One of my customers at work is a Canadian woman that is reading this over my shoulder right now. I had her look at this. Her comment -

"For cosmetics we will come over here but that's it. Anything important or urgent, it's stupid to come to the States unless it's highly specialized and there just isn't a doctor around who CAN do it"

Also -

her reply is -

"She must have lived in the middle of nowhere or something. Over in Windsor, this doesn't happen"

I have heard the same from many Canadians. There are complaints but it is a HELL of a lot better than nothing which is what I have.

This whole thing makes me angry enough to punch someone when they act like I don't deserve to be able to afford to go to the doctor. I notice that usually the ones who are squawking about the evils of nationalized care are the ones who have affordable full coverage insurance and dental.

[Onyx]

What if a person, who is covered by a system that makes them wait for a medical procedure, DIES while they're waiting?

A system like that is No better then a system that denies coverage due to monetary constraints; they're essentially the same thing.

The US government can't successfully run Anything. Look at the Postal service; bankrupt. Look at Amtrak.

Look at the Cash for Clunkers program. And you want them to be in charge of 1/6th of the total economy ?

If the Government controls health care, the government will control our lives, and our freedom to live our lives as we choose to, will be Gone; How is that better ?

I can promise you there are people dying now, every day, not from waiting but from having no coverage.

If you don't want nationalized health care then what is your alternative?

If I needed surgery right now I'm pretty much dead. There is no way in hell I could afford a hospital stay.

[Head Wreck]

we have nationalised healthcare here. AND we still have the option of private health insurance.

its paid in the PAYE (pay as you earn) scheme ontop of tax along with my pension and other things but its worth it.

when I was between jobs i was on private dental cover because my surgery insisted (but their motives are another story) i paid for checkups (which were free and they should not have charged even under the insurance) and mt teeth...

well i'm still having all the damage put right by NHS dentists to this day. and my contribution (as dentistry isn't 100% covered) is no more than £60 per tooth for as much as a cap or root canal.

whem my mother suffered what appeared to be a chain of strokes the NHS covered a specialist neurologist in London (and bear in mind thats 250 miles away and across several divisions of the NHS in between and the waiting list was 2 weeks.

ifact, in that 2 weeks we had been seen and accurately diagnosed (and i mean we. he pointed out symptoms i suffer as the warning signs of the condition and it wasn't even my appointment and i did not arrange it.

i could go private. and i would still be happy paying the small amount i do for the NHS, because that covers everyone, even those on private insurance that just need a doctor or AR visit NOW.

so yes we pay for it, and yes you hear of shortages and whatnot but its mostly miss managed here, to many managers and consultants that can be thinned down and better communication

i think its a comunities responsibility to help those who are down, rather than pulling the ladder up

[phee]

What if a person, who is covered by a system that makes them wait for a medical procedure, DIES while they're waiting?

A system like that is No better then a system that denies coverage due to monetary constraints; they're essentially the same thing.

No actually. Telling a patient that they will have to wait sucks... telling them they never will have what they need ever... sucks more. They are still just as dead, but a person waiting, at least had a chance!

BTW no coverage and massive waiting are not the only two outcomes for healthcare.... that is defeatist IMO.

The US government can't successfully run Anything. Look at the Postal service; bankrupt. Look at Amtrak.

Look at the Cash for Clunkers program. And you want them to be in charge of 1/6th of the total economy ?

If the Government controls health care, the government will control our lives, and our freedom to live our lives as we choose to, will be Gone; How is that better ?

Is having an option for government healthcare as oppossed to private... the OPTION... the government controlling our lives? I mean... We have the option to use the U.S. Postal service or we can go with UPS or FedEx is the government ruling our lives because there is the OPTION of the postal service? Does the government force people to use Amtrak?

Now another question, who here does not feel like the insurance companies are ruling our lives? How has that worked out so far? And how in the world is giving people another option going to hurt people?

[creatureofthenyte]

I can promise you there are people dying now, every day, not from waiting but from having no coverage.

If you don't want nationalized health care then what is your alternative?

If I needed surgery right now I'm pretty much dead. There is no way in hell I could afford a hospital stay.

My alternative would be to change the law(s) to allow people to shop for insurance plans across state lines.

I think that would be a major "game changer".

Insurance companies would have to lower cost(s) if they knew their customers had over 1000 plans to choose from, rather then what they have now, which is whatever is offered in each state.

Then, more companies would be able to afford to provide(or at least partially provide)coverage for their employees.

What to do if you're unemployed. That Is a major issue.

Other countries can afford to provide coverage to their people, but do their countries have the same national debt that we have ?

If government run insurance comes to pass, the private insurance companies will go out of business.

The tax revenue that they pay, and their employees pay will be gone too because they will all be out of a job. Then the government will have to raise taxes to compensate, and then they won't get the money they would need.

The Congressional Budget Office has already said, that the plan(s) that Obama and the Democrats are pushing, will do NOTHING to drive down costs, and they won't cover everyone.

Massachusetts is already trying this on a state level, and its failing miserably.

I'm not in favor of government run national health care, because I don't want the government controlling what I eat, and how I live my life, in relation to how it'd affect the cost of my health insurance.

Edited September 25, 2009 by creatureofthenyte

[Msterbeau]

If we want to provide coverage to more or all our citizens, we MUST stop the bs spending, and that is something the Democrats just can't seem to grasp.

So the hundreds of billions spent on wars Iraq and Afghanistan, begun by a Republican administration, doesn't count? I do agree there's a lot of pork that could potentially free up money for more important programs. But pork is bridges and roads to nowhere, in Alaska, not people's health. Pork is government spending far more for common items then the average person would. Pork is legislative boondoggles. Pork is all the little pet earmarks that these legislatures add to important bills to make themselves look good to their constituents. Both sides do it and it definitely needs to stop.