Nationalized Healthcare.

[Slogo]

Oh and in reply to my comment about the govenrment running our lives with this plan....

Out in San Fransisco, they are attempting to implement a "sin" tax on soda. Trying to make it so they can tax people into making healthier food & choices.

If they start with that, they will move on to everything else, and then before we know it, we will be living in "Brave New World".

Something similar to what i've actually advocated. Shit, they can tax alcohol and tobacco to high hell then they can tax junk food too. My dad made a joke when I was in high school in the late 90's... "Our state needs money so Engler plans to put a bigger tax on alcohol and cigarettes. Why can't he do it on fast food cheeseburgers? Oh yeah, because his fat ass will never sign a bill like that." A small tax on pop is not tantamount to total government control. This is what was said about everything the government ever did from 1900 onward. If the government does x today then tomorrow shock troops will be forcing you to vote for who they want.

On an unrelated note where were all these anti-government people when the patriot act was passed? There have only been two other bills like it. Alien and Sedition Acts of the late 18th century and the Sedition and Espionage Act of WWI. All 3 were huge government invasions of privacy.

Let's face it, some people believe that the only function is to declare war, and stop any upswing in gay marriage or abortions

[Guest Megalicious]

Out in San Fransisco, they are attempting to implement a "sin" tax on soda. Trying to make it so they can tax people into making healthier food & choices.

This is off topic, but this is extremely funny considering that the soda companies uses HFCS, which is so healthy (sarcasm) because it is CHEAP. Why is it cheap? Because it is subsidized by the government.

WTF.

[Leland City Club]

.

There has to be enough smater than tho people in the USA to come up for a way that we can all have healthcare and save $$$$ at the same time.

Im not that guy.

I have health insurance through my day job, so I am lucky that way.

I know far too many people in our area who don't have any insurance.

One would think that there has to be a better way.

With all the $$$$ we spend on healthcare there is no reason we all don't have at least basic access.

Those who want to spend extra $$$$ should still be able to do that.

My friends, there is no reason that any of our friends should end up dead because their part time job offers no health benefits.

That is my $1.50

There has to be a better way , , , ,

[creatureofthenyte]

Something similar to what i've actually advocated. Shit, they can tax alcohol and tobacco to high hell then they can tax junk food too. My dad made a joke when I was in high school in the late 90's... "Our state needs money so Engler plans to put a bigger tax on alcohol and cigarettes. Why can't he do it on fast food cheeseburgers? Oh yeah, because his fat ass will never sign a bill like that." A small tax on pop is not tantamount to total government control. This is what was said about everything the government ever did from 1900 onward. If the government does x today then tomorrow shock troops will be forcing you to vote for who they want.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait to after the fact, and say gosh I wish we could have stopped them from doing "x".

See though, its not a Small tax. If it goes national, soda will be taxed by the ounce. Not for nothing, but I happen to work for Coca Cola, and if that tax passes, ALOT of people in the industry will lose their jobs. The unemployment rate in this country seems to be continually rising, and Obama doesn't seem to give a shit, and that pisses me off.

I understand that people should live healthy lives, but how healthy people choose to live their lives should be the Citizens' choice; Not Barack Obama's.

[AstralCrux]

I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait to after the fact, and say gosh I wish we could have stopped them from doing "x".

See though, its not a Small tax. If it goes national, soda will be taxed by the ounce. Not for nothing, but I happen to work for Coca Cola, and if that tax passes, ALOT of people in the industry will lose their jobs. The unemployment rate in this country seems to be continually rising, and Obama doesn't seem to give a shit, and that pisses me off.

I understand that people should live healthy lives, but how healthy people choose to live their lives should be the Citizens' choice; Not Barack Obama's.

+10

[creatureofthenyte]

This is off topic, but this is extremely funny considering that the soda companies uses HFCS, which is so healthy (sarcasm) because it is CHEAP. Why is it cheap? Because it is subsidized by the government.

WTF.

Good point. Soda sweetened with cane sugar tastes better anyway. They use the HFCS because, like you said it's cheap. And soda companies, much like a lot of other businesses, like to maximize profit and minimize cost of ingredients.

You're also right about the healthy sarcasm Meg.

I don't mean to sound like I'm splitting hairs, but soda is less unhealthy(as long as people don't drink a keg of it a day) then cigarettes.

Edited September 27, 2009 by creatureofthenyte

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Can someone explain why everyone keeps using the word "option"? I ask, because what is proposed is not an option. As long as their is a penalty tax, that you either pay or go to jail, (as there is in the current proposed bill) it's not optional.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/buy-insurance-or-go-to-jail-.html

Given that the health-care bill written by Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus contains a $1,900 fee (or excise tax) for not buying health insurance, Ensign wanted to know what would happen if an American didn't pay the penalty.

In a handwritten letter, Barthold told Ensign that under an existing provision of the Internal Revenue Code, willful failure to pay a fine can result in being charged with a misdemeanor which could carry a penalty of up to $25,000, or up to a year in jail, or both. The handwritten letter was a follow-up to an answer that Barthold gave Ensign during Thursday's mark-up of the Baucus bill.

[KatRN05]

I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait to after the fact, and say gosh I wish we could have stopped them from doing "x".

See though, its not a Small tax. If it goes national, soda will be taxed by the ounce. Not for nothing, but I happen to work for Coca Cola, and if that tax passes, ALOT of people in the industry will lose their jobs. The unemployment rate in this country seems to be continually rising, and Obama doesn't seem to give a shit, and that pisses me off.

I understand that people should live healthy lives, but how healthy people choose to live their lives should be the Citizens' choice; Not Barack Obama's.

I agree.

[candyman]

I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait to after the fact, and say gosh I wish we could have stopped them from doing "x".

See though, its not a Small tax. If it goes national, soda will be taxed by the ounce. Not for nothing, but I happen to work for Coca Cola, and if that tax passes, ALOT of people in the industry will lose their jobs. The unemployment rate in this country seems to be continually rising, and Obama doesn't seem to give a shit, and that pisses me off.

I understand that people should live healthy lives, but how healthy people choose to live their lives should be the Citizens' choice; Not Barack Obama's.

When most people vote from their armchairs it becomes all too easy to wait until they tax "x"...but we have become somewhat lazy. Once people figure out that the tax on "x" shows the government that they can slowly add more taxes to "x" they may begin to act faster.

I smoke, drink soda, drink beer, and eat whatever I want and it may not be healthy but unless you actually believe in sin there is no reason to sin tax me. Let me deal with the results that I actually know about and will deal with when they get to me. I am looking to quit smoking and soda however it would be great if the government or the "holy" healthy people did something to help me...but they just tax me, yell at me, and seek to grind me into a pulp...I tend to resist when an iron fist takes the place of a helping hand.

Honestly the government and private groups are going at this all wrong...if something is REALLY that bad for us then they wouldn't need to work that hard to take it out of our live, or at least they would not have to mount the blitzkrieg...and if these other things are REALLY that good for us then, well like I said before they should not have to go at it this hard. Its like the smoking bans going around...if workers, owners, and patrons really wanted the bans to happen then it would have happened, maybe slowly, by itself.

Health at the cost of free will, even more taxes, and sanity does not go over well with me even if it does the body good...* strikes a Freddie Mercury pose and screams Don't stop me now! *...oh wow this cigarette can only get better with a root beer!

[Reaper]

Can someone explain why everyone keeps using the word "option"? I ask, because what is proposed is not an option. As long as their is a penalty tax, that you either pay or go to jail, (as there is in the current proposed bill) it's not optional.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/buy-insurance-or-go-to-jail-.html

Damn, wtf. I think its pretty damn dumb to make people pay stiff penalties for not opting to take health insurance. If they opt out, they should suffer the consequences. Government wants everyone, healthy or not, to pay because the ones that stay healthy just keep paying and maybe not even using. That money they pay goes to pay for the rest of them who are unhealthy. The government also saves money off the healthy ones because they rarely use the service. That is how this is partially funded. Its also the way money is redistributed from those who have money, to those who don't. Socialism.

On the soda side, I think that is already happening. Prices have already gone up to $1.59 a bottle in some places like Tennessee at the truck stop I stay at every week. They also are starting to phase out the 20oz bottle and replace it with a 16oz with the 20oz price. The one liters have gone up to $1.79 or $1.89 now instead of $1.69 as it used to be. They may already be preparing for that sin tax.

Did anyone ever notice that when confronted about the politicians actually going on the same healthcare as us, that they declined? If they wouldn't even go on our healthcare, why would we? They don't pay a dime for anything, thats why. They ride their way to the bank on the taxpayers backs.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Reaper

[Head Wreck]

not on the subject of "sin" tax. as I believe food is a human right just like healthcare and it shouldn't be taxed (its not here but confectionery is, so cakes are untaxed biscuits taxed).

but one thing we noticed through the back and fourth.

frozen vegetables. their available in pack bigger than "one serving for a typical 2.4 children family" that I keep seeing, and thier expensive.

items like flour, rice, the basics. OMFG their expensive. and why? i saw plenty of farms there that seemed a little run down and the crops.... cmon, America is fucking huge. there should be no excuse for the basics being so fucking expensive. even with the currency and wages differances between america and the US. it is far cheaper still to do home cooking here, the only thing you have us beat on is meat.

Phee, Rayne and Angel have both seem my energy levels plumet after a few days off the usual levels of green i am used to.

[Head Wreck]

back after doing laundry i was also pondering:

perhaps public healthcare should first concentrate on preventative healthcare first before rolling out into patient care to lessen the impact. what we need to do is get people of the idea of a one day fix to their problems and better educate people on why things can go wrong and how to avoid it.

overall i think that if people were living a lot better then a lot of ailments wouldn't end up in a hospital bed awaiting a doctor or surgeon

[Marmee_Noir]

Though I am not sure which side of this issue I am on, I do have to acknowledge that I can see why insurance companies do not want nationalized healthcare, because they stand to lose money by means of competitive government money. One thing they DO need is tort reform so doctors are not sued out of existence. I DO agree that people without insurance should have access, but the BIG question remains: How do we pay for it?

I have worked many jobs where I have paid to have health insurance and can say I have rarely ever had to use it. I certainly don't want to be taxed to death just to cover those that COULD work, but don't because life is easier on food stamps and government assistance. I would gladly pay money into a third party fund that would help those in general need of healthcare. Personally, I would rather see that happen rather than force everyone to lose their ass to taxation.

Amen! The only thing I would change in this comment is that.... I am pretty much TOTALLY against nationalized health care... Not that I think there are not many many good people out there that wouldn't benefit from it.. But for the same reasons Reaper stated.. Who is going to pick up the tab in the end..

I would rather see the opening of more affordable and free clinics. I don't have insurance and haven't had any for the last couple of years. Yeah it sucks, but when I needed an emergency tooth extraction that turned into oral surgery, I went to a free dental clinic, had amazing care and the price was obscenely cheap... I think there needs to be more clinics such as these.

[Homicidalheathen]

considering my medical ins just went up to 1000 a month as I am high risk...yah I'd say so. I don't qualify for medicade but my ins is more than my mortgage. Something has to change. I just hope if there is change I can still go to Beaumont as when I get bowel obstructions or ruptures Mt clemens gen is so shitty they will kill me.

[Rev.Reverence]

*throws existential peanuts off of the nihilist balcony*

[Guest Megalicious]

back after doing laundry i was also pondering:

perhaps public healthcare should first concentrate on preventative healthcare first before rolling out into patient care to lessen the impact. what we need to do is get people of the idea of a one day fix to their problems and better educate people on why things can go wrong and how to avoid it.

overall i think that if people were living a lot better then a lot of ailments wouldn't end up in a hospital bed awaiting a doctor or surgeon

+ 1,000,000

[Guest Megalicious]

items like flour, rice, the basics. OMFG their expensive. and why?

Two words. Agricultural subsidy - which is outdated and useless.

[torn asunder]

back after doing laundry i was also pondering:

perhaps public healthcare should first concentrate on preventative healthcare first before rolling out into patient care to lessen the impact. what we need to do is get people of the idea of a one day fix to their problems and better educate people on why things can go wrong and how to avoid it.

overall i think that if people were living a lot better then a lot of ailments wouldn't end up in a hospital bed awaiting a doctor or surgeon

i like this thought - start off with basic preventive health care being subsidized/mandatory/whatever you want to call it. if we caught diseases early, we wouldn't have the exorbitant costs to deal with. obviously, this doesn't do anything for people with issues now, but it would greatly reduce costs over time. we currently don't do squat for ongoing/preventive care. just as an example (which obviously wouldn't work here, even though i wish it would) when china went through their huge medical crisis, they would require that, once you saw a doctor, you would have to, say, attend a tai-chi course for 30 days, and get a card stamped proving it, before you could see a doctor again. my point is, i also think that requiring people to take responsibility for their heath is a good idea. don't want to take that responsibility? fine, your choice, but no doctor's visits for you until you do. (again, that's just an example, it would obviously have to be tweaked for our culture, but i like the principle of it).

[creatureofthenyte]

not on the subject of "sin" tax. as I believe food is a human right just like healthcare and it shouldn't be taxed (its not here but confectionery is, so cakes are untaxed biscuits taxed).

but one thing we noticed through the back and fourth.

frozen vegetables. their available in pack bigger than "one serving for a typical 2.4 children family" that I keep seeing, and thier expensive.

items like flour, rice, the basics. OMFG their expensive. and why? i saw plenty of farms there that seemed a little run down and the crops.... cmon, America is fucking huge. there should be no excuse for the basics being so fucking expensive. even with the currency and wages differances between america and the US. it is far cheaper still to do home cooking here, the only thing you have us beat on is meat.

Phee, Rayne and Angel have both seem my energy levels plumet after a few days off the usual levels of green i am used to.

Chris you wanna know why those items are so expensive?

There is a large farming valley in California, that has to have water pumped into the land so the crops can grow.

Nancy Pelosi passed an environmental protection bill, that protects this little fish called a "smelt".

The fish is about 3" long.

So what does that mean for the farmers in that California valley ? The US government shut the water pumps off to protect that stupid little fish, and the farmlands have gone dry.

So, given the huge impact that has had, that is mostly where your steep prices are coming from.

[KatRN05]

This is all true. Instead of letting these farmers water their crops, they are letting them go out of business. Makes no sense trying to save a tiny fish.

Edited September 27, 2009 by KatRN05

[Reaper]

This is all true. Instead of letting these farmers water their crops, they are letting them go out of business. Makes no sense trying to save a tiny fish.

Yeah and I for one cannot stand that fish. When I was a kid, my step-dad and mom went up north smelt fishing and brought back 2 garbage bags full of that shit. I was eating more tartar sauce than fish. This is why i don't fish much anymore. Way too much in the past.

[KatRN05]

Yeah and I for one cannot stand that fish. When I was a kid, my step-dad and mom went up north smelt fishing and brought back 2 garbage bags full of that shit. I was eating more tartar sauce than fish. This is why i don't fish much anymore. Way too much in the past.

I like fish but not smelt. When my mom was growing up, the Christmas tradition was to have fried smelt and Spaghetti and oil for dinner. My mom's side is Italian. We tried this one year and it didn't come out so well. That crap stinks. The fish can go extinct, give water to the farmers. Why is the government trying to save fish when there are people who need to be saved?

Edited September 28, 2009 by KatRN05

[phee]

On a side note, I am genuinely curious, Phee have you read through the health care bills that Henry Waxman and Max Baucus have put forth ? I know they're both probably over 1000 pages, but still..

Not all of it... but in answer to my feelings about the proposed healthcare bill.... I will restate what I said earlier:

BTW... the healthcare bill they are working on now...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

i like this thought - start off with basic preventive health care being subsidized/mandatory/whatever you want to call it. if we caught diseases early, we wouldn't have the exorbitant costs to deal with. obviously, this doesn't do anything for people with issues now, but it would greatly reduce costs over time. we currently don't do squat for ongoing/preventive care. just as an example (which obviously wouldn't work here, even though i wish it would) when china went through their huge medical crisis, they would require that, once you saw a doctor, you would have to, say, attend a tai-chi course for 30 days, and get a card stamped proving it, before you could see a doctor again. my point is, i also think that requiring people to take responsibility for their heath is a good idea. don't want to take that responsibility? fine, your choice, but no doctor's visits for you until you do. (again, that's just an example, it would obviously have to be tweaked for our culture, but i like the principle of it).

Something rational like that isn't on the table though. What is, is either you go with this plan, pay the tax or go to jail.

[creatureofthenyte]

Something rational like that isn't on the table though. What is, is either you go with this plan, pay the tax or go to jail.