Nationalized Healthcare.

[Soulrev]

I will probably get slammed for this one but here we go.

So, what I want to know, is if we provide universal healthcare.. Let's say we take persons A, B, and C. So A and B have health insurance that they've paid for, and C doesn't. A and B get sick, they pay for it with insurance they obtained on their own. If C gets sick, they're screwed. But now, we want to make it so person C has health insurance. Ok, but who pays for it?

I understand life happens but even I have managed to get health insurance in some way or another my entire life.. I mean even shitty Burger King jobs 90% of the time offer a basic health insurance policy for a reasonable cost. Now, sure, if you're unemployed, etc. it's going to be harder but, let's get serious here. Obama has spent more money than I want to even think about on everything else BUT healthcare.. So, I have to pay for that, and now they want me to pay for everyone else's healthcare?

I mean unless we go in a different direction this whole plan the dems have is going to fail. Pretty soon everyone is going to be paying out the ass in taxes.

And when the hell did capitalism become a sin in this country? Let's take from the rich and give it to the poor? Ok Robin Hood wanna-bes. Let's not forget that people in this country have always and will always make money for themselves. I'm not busting my ass to give my money to someone else because the government thinks that's what they should do. And Micheal Moore can eat a dick.

That is all.

[AstralCrux]

Soulrev I agree with you, but that's why I haven't posted in here. I don't think we'll be happy in the long run.

[phee]

I will probably get slammed for this one but here we go.

So, what I want to know, is if we provide universal healthcare.. Let's say we take persons A, B, and C. So A and B have health insurance that they've paid for, and C doesn't. A and B get sick, they pay for it with insurance they obtained on their own. If C gets sick, they're screwed. But now, we want to make it so person C has health insurance. Ok, but who pays for it?

I understand life happens but even I have managed to get health insurance in some way or another my entire life.. I mean even shitty Burger King jobs 90% of the time offer a basic health insurance policy for a reasonable cost. Now, sure, if you're unemployed, etc. it's going to be harder but, let's get serious here. Obama has spent more money than I want to even think about on everything else BUT healthcare.. So, I have to pay for that, and now they want me to pay for everyone else's healthcare?

I mean unless we go in a different direction this whole plan the dems have is going to fail. Pretty soon everyone is going to be paying out the ass in taxes.

And when the hell did capitalism become a sin in this country? Let's take from the rich and give it to the poor? Ok Robin Hood wanna-bes. Let's not forget that people in this country have always and will always make money for themselves. I'm not busting my ass to give my money to someone else because the government thinks that's what they should do. And Micheal Moore can eat a dick.

That is all.

I think you do bring up some good points... (and yes Michael Moore... if he does have a good message somewhere, it is usually lost because of the terrible way he presents it)

But yes... in your example... Do A and B have any responsibility for the well being of C and his family? That is the question... I think the answer is yes and no...

Is healthcare different from other services we get taxed for? For example, street repair... that is paid for using taxes, but what if I only want to pay for my own street, and not get taxed for the streets blocks away because I never drive there, and therefore I am not responsible for those poor C's who do...

I digress... but using your capitalizm/robinhood example. What it comes down to is this, do you believe that the "HAVES" bear any responsibility to the "HAVE NOTS"? The "HAVES" usually don't think so until they find themselves in the "HAVE NOT" club.... the "HAVE NOTS" definitly would like the "HAVES" to help them out when times are tough... until they actually find themselves in the "HAVE" club... Human nature is a bitch isn't it?

[candyman]

I will probably get slammed for this one but here we go.

So, what I want to know, is if we provide universal healthcare.. Let's say we take persons A, B, and C. So A and B have health insurance that they've paid for, and C doesn't. A and B get sick, they pay for it with insurance they obtained on their own. If C gets sick, they're screwed. But now, we want to make it so person C has health insurance. Ok, but who pays for it?

I understand life happens but even I have managed to get health insurance in some way or another my entire life.. I mean even shitty Burger King jobs 90% of the time offer a basic health insurance policy for a reasonable cost. Now, sure, if you're unemployed, etc. it's going to be harder but, let's get serious here. Obama has spent more money than I want to even think about on everything else BUT healthcare.. So, I have to pay for that, and now they want me to pay for everyone else's healthcare?

I mean unless we go in a different direction this whole plan the dems have is going to fail. Pretty soon everyone is going to be paying out the ass in taxes.

And when the hell did capitalism become a sin in this country? Let's take from the rich and give it to the poor? Ok Robin Hood wanna-bes. Let's not forget that people in this country have always and will always make money for themselves. I'm not busting my ass to give my money to someone else because the government thinks that's what they should do. And Micheal Moore can eat a dick.

That is all.

Yeah every place I have worked so far has offered some sort of help in the way of health insurance. Autozone, 7-UP warehouse, Shopko, and yeah pretty much eveyone else. However, I keep hearing people, not on this forum, complain that they still have to pay something for their health insurance...almost like they want it for free.

We are already paying out the ass for taxes...but I live in Wisconsin so my view may be different. I honeslty love how more taxes go to the DOT, the roads stay the same, and suddenly the state employed teachers are driving really nice new cars with state plates.

Honestly I think that standing up in support of capitalism is now grounds for being lynched...or at least screamed at alot.

[Soulrev]

Yeah definitely, it is different on the other side of the fence. I mean don't get me wrong I've been uninsured, too, but hey I did what I could as soon as I could to change that. Not everyone is the same, though, and I know that.

All I'm really saying is this is NOT the way to fix the problem. I say come up with something else or don't change it at all, but this idea is BAD, really really, bad.

[AstralCrux]

I've dealt with my share of not having insurance and being impaled with medical bills. But, I put myself into positions now where my employer has benefits. I like the industry I'm in, because most hotels offer benefits- even non-corporate hotels I've worked for.

I don't agree that we need to throw anymore money in the fire. I don't trust the people voted in to do a good job, because they consistantly do dumb things. And, gosh darn it, I find it hard to believe some days that these are educated people. But then I remember... Most of our presidents and elected officials were in fraternities and sororities... Then I think about my college days. Makes sense now.

[Rayne]

It seems like the only people complaining about the UK's healthcare is people who don't use it.

Japan has wonderful healthcare and spends wayyy less than the US, and the Japanese see the Dr. more often and longer hospital stays.

Taiwan even based their healthcare plan off of other countries (NOT THE US) and their plan is better ... although I hear they are having financial issues with theirs.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

(watch the above program -- it's interesting)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/etc/notebook.html

(a supplemental interview to the program above)

[phee]

It seems like the only people complaining about the UK's healthcare is people who don't use it.

Japan has wonderful healthcare and spends wayyy less than the US, and the Japanese see the Dr. more often and longer hospital stays.

Taiwan even based their healthcare plan off of other countries (NOT THE US) and their plan is better ... although I hear they are having financial issues with theirs.

http://www.pbs.org/w...aroundtheworld/

(watch the above program -- it's interesting)

http://www.pbs.org/w...c/notebook.html

(a supplemental interview to the program above)

Nice

[Rayne]

And as the program link I provided states over and over again ... no one in national healthcare plans have gone bankrupt on medical bills.

... I have been uninsured, I have been insured, and regardless of coverage or not here in the US -- I HAVE went bankrupt on medical bills. Twice, actually. It is a very sad reality of our current system here in the US. Unless you have the best coverage possible (which most employers aren't able to pay their portion of the cost, or your portion is so high that you can't elect that coverage), if you have ongoing medical issues or serious problems, the bills are going to pile up.

[phee]

And as the program link I provided states over and over again ... no one in national healthcare plans have gone bankrupt on medical bills.

... I have been uninsured, I have been insured, and regardless of coverage or not here in the US -- I HAVE went bankrupt on medical bills. Twice, actually. It is a very sad reality of our current system here in the US. Unless you have the best coverage possible (which most employers aren't able to pay their portion of the cost, or your portion is so high that you can't elect that coverage), if you have ongoing medical issues or serious problems, the bills are going to pile up.

This is true sadly

[Soulrev]

I sure am glad my health insurance is provided by the Army because I'll be one of the few who will be able to get decent and timely healthcare once this goes live.

I wish they'd hurry up and finish fucking up our nation already.. The suspense is killing me. It's like watching a storm roll in. Can't do shit about it, but you know what's coming, so take cover.

[creatureofthenyte]

It is a very sad reality of our current system here in the US. Unless you have the best coverage possible (which most employers aren't able to pay their portion of the cost, or your portion is so high that you can't elect that coverage), if you have ongoing medical issues or serious problems, the bills are going to pile up.

I still think that, if employers and individual citizens were allowed to shop for insurance plans, across state lines, thereby forcing insurance companies to lower premiums due to increased competition, that quality coverage would become affordable to more people.

[Rayne]

I sure am glad my health insurance is provided by the Army because I'll be one of the few who will be able to get decent and timely healthcare once this goes live.

I wish they'd hurry up and finish fucking up our nation already.. The suspense is killing me. It's like watching a storm roll in. Can't do shit about it, but you know what's coming, so take cover.

My daughter is covered by Tricare, we've had no luck with gaining the awesome coverage we had when the ex was still in the Army.

Reason being we're so far from a base and aren't using the Army's health centers. They are AWESOME if you're living on base, but out of base area, they aren't any better than our HMO.

We were (approx) $12,000 in debt on JUST HER BILLS for the past 4 years. That is with an HMO as primary and Tricare as secondary.