What do you consider cheating?

[Ratsel]

Yep...why sell yourself short?

[freydis]

point above is : you can be as honest as you want with someone and come to an agreement ""....but people still lie. Its terrible, so in the end, trust is about as fictional as world peace.

If you only expect the worst from someone, thats all youre going to get. Dont mean to sound pollyanna, but I've had my share of nasty experiences too. While I keep my eyes open with people in general, I also begin with benefit of the doubt.

[Ratsel]

ok u got me there.

[Msterbeau]

Yep...why sell yourself short?

Cuz I'm only 5'8"?

[pomba gira]

If you only expect the worst from someone, thats all youre going to get. Dont mean to sound pollyanna, but I've had my share of nasty experiences too. While I keep my eyes open with people in general, I also begin with benefit of the doubt.

This is very true. It may sound smarmy or Pollyanna-ish or whatever, but it's the way things work. You learn this most quickly working with children but it applies to adults just as well.

If you spend time talking to people who have had partners with major jealousy/trust issues, what you repeatedly hear is "Since he was going to be suspicious and jealous whether I was actually cheating or not, I figured I might as well do it". Now, I am certainly not saying these people are justified in their actions... the point is that PEOPLE RESPOND TO THE EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON THEM BY OTHERS. We are all hardwired that way, and it takes a VERY strong and self-aware person to transcend that.

And, if trust was really "as fictional as world peace", there would not be any solid, loving, committed relationships that last for 10, 20, 50 years... and I know plenty of people in such relationships.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

when boundaries are agreed upon and set, anything outside them could be considered cheating.

[prick]

Ok ladies und gentlemen, here it is; the nasty truth about Ratsel. Oh and this one is going to have the guys roaring.

WARNING :: Woman with strict convictions here. And lack of care for opposition.

What I consider cheating : (its a long list)

1. Sex talk

2. Flirting (online or off)

3. Taking another person's phone number (opposite sex) and HIDING it.

4. Thinking of another person while having sex...yeah not so good.

5. Obviously, any sexual act with anyone else

6. kissing someone else (and I don't mean the peck on your family member)

7. online correspondence (especially e-mail) with someone you are hiding from your partner

8. text messaging that same type of person through your cell phone

Things that would get you farther from forever with Ratsel :

1. going to a club or bar and hanging all over someone else (Buuuuut I never touched her) DOESN'T WORK

2. same senerio but with dancing (come on)

3. making your partner wonder too much, and feel they need to ask questions

4. keeping logs of porn and pornographic pictures on your computer

5. saying "oh yes, your the one, and I love you so much, there is no one else) and then you go and flirt with someone else behind your partner's back

LAME!!!!

Now....if all of this makes me a severe prude...so be it, because I'm telling you I've been through it all already and here is the cold hard fact - If your with someone who does this crap, they are NOT, I repeat, NOT happy and/or they have a severe issue/crisis.

And here is the argument I get...from both sexes (There is no man out there who doesn't do these things)

RIGHT!

And gentlemen....this is why women have self esteem issues, bitch mode issues, tend to sift through personal belongings issues, may look over your shoulder from time to time issues...and so on.

And guys, here's a tid' bit : If she's doing any of those things I just mentioned, its not because she's WONDERING if your doing something you shouldn't, its because she knows damn well you are already and she wants to confront the issue with fact.

Here is the last and the saddest part of this whole damn truth.

Women who refuse to put up with these things, cannot stay in a relationship. They get cheated on, badly spoken for, pushed aside, replaced or just plain left. And its because MOST men do not want anything holding them back.....Matured. The human attention span is yes, short, but boredom shouldn't come so easy. Women today are unattractive unless they have buns like Pamela Anderson, tits like perfect pieces of fruit, legs like a gazelle and if for some reason that woman has an opinion.....she's damned. And lately...if she is perfect looking and sweet/charming...blah blah blah...if another one comes by him and looks just as good...his mind still trails off. SAAAAAD!

You will never meet anyone more cinical and prudish than I. And this is why I am not married. Not because I don't want to be....but because forever with me would mean being a 100% honorable, faithful, and respectful Man.

I'm curious to see how many people agree with some of my strict morals.

Thank you Ratsel for posting this. I firmly agree with you in all areas. When I am single I can be a bit of a slut but in a relationship I follow these same codes of conduct.

[Msterbeau]

So we have the "Rules are the rules" camp and the "Whatever consenting adults agree upon" camp? The absolutists and the relativists. These points of view are prevalent in many aspects of life and I'm very curious why people follow one path or another? Is it parenting? Is it a genetic predisposition? Is it some of each? Is it the opinion of one lone influence early in life? I'm sure I could go research this... but then I might actually find the answer, and what fun is that? :-)

[Destroit]

The key to old school style relationships are communication, trust, similar interests and, in the modern age, 99% luck.

As people are straying away from organized religion morals are going by the wayside, quite honestly, the only reason cheating morals really exist is because of these old school ways of religion, it's a leftover from the past and you can't expect everyone to live in the past. In nature, monogamous relationships really do not work and aren't natural, and quite honestly they are not natural to humans either, so anyone in a monogamous relationship could be considered a bit of a prude :. If that's what you choose to go with, that's fine, but just know that now since people are wising up to the religion-control-machine (particularly things like Christianity) all of the illogical things like cheating laws will be thrown by the wayside because freedom is usually more valuable, especially to men, than any one particular vagina and that's the way the world is and the way we generally work (everyone varies in natural libido though also). Most people compromise being in a relationship by possibly exploring with other partners or even getting time alone/together to watch a dirty movie and let their imaginations go to work.

If you are looking for someone monogamous, you will want to look in maybe church groups or groups/clubs for singles looking for other singles exclusively, not CC. CC is very sexually charged and sexually open, most people don't like to be tied down, and SADLY I've met many an asshole who will tell you what you want to hear just to get you in bed and then leave you.

Personally, from an evolutionary standpoint looking at the behaviors of other primates (bonobos in particular) humans are formatted for open, swinging, type relationships where there is one or two favorite partners and then more who you fuck around with. Personally I don't think it means you don't love the other person, you love them so much that you trust them to still be your main squeeze when all is said and done .

Also, from your post you seem to expect A LOT out of men, like a knight in shining armor type deal, but in men under 40 chivalry is dead usually, it went away when we wanted rights and to be treated equal. You can't always have your cake and eat it too. You seem to have too negative of a view of men hence why you are probably also seem to attract negative men, it's almost like you're trying to prove a point, and you keep finding men that reinforce that point. It's probably not something you do on purpose, it seems like it may seem like a subconscious type thing, but the red flags around this is that you said that many of these guys came from CC. Knowing it's reputation why try to get guys from there? After hearing the stories and dating one, maybe TWO, expecting what you're expecting I'd be like "ehhh...pass on those guys from now on."

Keep doing your thing, ask all the right questions, look all the right places, hold a four leaf clover for luck, and you'll get a guy who wants to be exclusive. But in order to not watch internet porn? GodDAMN. That's tough. I'd break up with a dude if he was so jealous he told me I couldn't watch some smut, so I will say that's a bit strict, but again, imo. So with EXTREMELY strict standards such as this, the search MAY take a bit longer than with most people because you require criteria that's a bit harder than others, so you need to understand this also.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Chernobyl

[scyko_kitty]

I'm bi-sexual, and the guy I'm currently with sees me bieing with a girl as cheating. I do not see the problem with being with a girl. It's not like I can get pregnet, or that I'm sleeping with anthoer guy. But I do respect his wishes, and only be with him. But I would like to know if anyone could explain how people see that as cheating to me.

[Lillylu29]

I'm bi-sexual, and the guy I'm currently with sees me bieing with a girl as cheating. I do not see the problem with being with a girl. It's not like I can get pregnet, or that I'm sleeping with anthoer guy. But I do respect his wishes, and only be with him. But I would like to know if anyone could explain how people see that as cheating to me.

Would you consider him being with another guy cheating? I dont think it matters what sex you are with girl or guy when you lay in the bed with someone other then your partner or without your partners consent its cheating.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

Would you consider him being with another guy cheating? I dont think it matters what sex you are with girl or guy when you lay in the bed with someone other then your partner or without your partners consent its cheating.

so if she has sex with a girl in a car it's OK then?

#@!

[Mean Salley]

Oh, come now, let's not aim high or anything. Lets not consider being on one's own and being slightly indefuckin'pendent for all of a half an hour. Most people's ideals for movies, music and the arts in general are a heaping load of wildebeest ass-pudding anyways, why hold any realistic or honest ideals for relationships? That would mean your're not full of "eat shit"

Since we're on the topic, here's some specfuckin'tacular dating advice for guys and girls alike. Not for any one person on this list, but rather for anyone who seems to keep finding themselves in the worst of relationships and may need a few helpful pointers on what to look for in a mate.

-Always claim that you're looking for someone honest for irony's sake because the exercise in redundancy has already started. You don't want someone who's honest because you're not honest yourself. If you were, you could point out someone's dishonesty a mile away long before you get involved, but you don't and you will date charlatan after charlatan and never learn a single damned lesson from it. You're just pissed because in the past, their dishonesty hurt you more than yours hurt them.

-Always be sure to aim high and date the dumb chunk of feldspar who has the most colossal collection of x-box games of any 32 year old you've ever met. Because all of that BS you get about "I'm going back to school someday, I'll find employment someday, I'll take my own damned kids out to the park someday..." Is just as much a fantasy as all the legendary characters in the world of x-box.

-When you do find a girlfriend, do your best to show how much you know about ancient history by acting like a dumb fucking cro-magnon, and be sure that she feels as insecure, oppressed and unappreciated as possible. You can do this by harmful insults, being possesive and throwing her a good heartfelt beating from time to time. It really helps to make your job as "Thag smash animals into food" guy a lot easier without having to take any sass from your warm fuck puppet and maker of hot foods. Remember, when it comes to disagreements between a man and a woman, might makes right. (And hopefully also jail time)

-Never be fooled into thinking that tattoos don't directly equate into character. It has been scientifically proven that the amount of ink someone has permanently needled into their body directly correlates with honesty, virtue, hard work, wit, and lots of fun. So the next time you see some douchebag whose entire life has amounted to nothing more than several thousands of dollars worth of trashy tattoos that will be exactly the same 20 years from now, be ye encouraged, they've gotta be awesome if they have that many tattoos. Don't even bother getting to know them, you can take them home to mom, and she will know by his tattoos, that he's absofuckinlutely stellar and would gladly sacrifice a few extra tattoos to help your kids get a few books for school.

-If your idea of clever and a "great sense of humor" is the most crass, offensive and "fuck" ridden vulgarity possible from the English language, get yourself sterilized, get yout significant other sterilized, get some Dane Cook dvd's and stay home... forever.

-Everyone who is in a band is the best possible candidate for you to date. No one in their right mind would EVAR consider dressing like a rock star, learning a few notes on a casio keyboard and plagiarizing their favorite 5 bands just because they know a bunch of dumb broads will totally show up to their next gig and ride their sweaty little vienna sausage simply on account of their being in a local band. This is a great way to filter the piss out of the gene pool.

-Act as whiny, unloved, and depressed as possible. Because everyone knows that a grown woman wants nothing more than to raise a 25 year old basement lord who can't scrape the shit out his own pampers. Try to get as much attention as possible through your chronic depression, because I'm sure your woman would truly cherish your selfish, psychopathic, little mood swings. I'm sure she'll look forward to supporting your alcohol habit with her hard earned money because your 16 hours a week at Cinnabon won't feed your 4 kids AND buy a pint of Jimmy Beam every day.

-D00des, always put up a big act and craft an elaborate massive facade about how awesome you are, and all you expect to be. Because if it's not true, once she finds out, she's sure to blather all of your inadequacies and delusion all over the internet. That will prolly knock you down a peg or two.

-Always look for the most weak willed and wishy washy traits in a mate. They'll be VERY easy to manipulate and then you can have everything you want as long as they're always afraid to lose you. This generally does not work out for the other person, but what do you care? The whole relationship is about you anyways. Disagree? see my first point above about honesty. Generally if I meet someone who is limp-wristed and easy to push around, you can guarantee that whoever they're dating is readily manipulating the strings on their limp wrists and telling them how co-dependent they should be if they really love them.

Last freebee tip here, and I'm ruining a big secret for a lot of guys, but I really don't care because I'm not gay and I'll never be in your guild anyways.

Guys know very well, that if they have money, and a nice car and sweet tattoos (and particularly if you're in a band); GIRLS WILL FUCK THEM. They are very good at acting like they are interested in more and that there is a lot more to them than just wanting to lay some pipe, but they know many girls will be fooled as long as they have money, a nice car and some sweet tattoos. (Or are in a myspace band with 10,000+ friends.) If they lose the chick, that's great because I say again; Guys know very well, that if they have money, and a nice car and sweet tattoos (and particularly if you're in a band); GIRLS WILL FUCK THEM.

If you've fallen for this before and been burned, it's your own damned fault. Quit being a dizzy, cock brained, simpleton and stop dating people on account of things that are nothing more than a grand facade. And if you do continue to date them, quit whining about it and go gag on a Prince Albert in a Lexus.

The end

[Rev.Reverence]

[TheOsakaKoneko]

Well,

I don't feel like roaring, that really wouldn't be very productive.

Maybe its just me, but this thread at the onset anyway, has a very stand-offish vibe to it.

Ratsel, I agree with your list; in fact I would look at it as "status quo".

It's good to have strong convictions; if you don't stand for Something, you'll fall for Anything.

If I met someone new, with the intention of dating, and she took a stand-offish attitude toward me, it would be over right then and there.

The people in the relationship need to respect each other; i.e.: cheating should never take place.

Something very relevant;

Women cheat too.

Pretty much everything that men do(that shouldn't be done while in a committed relationship), women do them too.

An example, from personal experience even...

A woman I was dating at the time, cheated on me with another guy.

When I confronted her about it, she looked me straight in the eye and told me that she loved Me, and that she wasn't cheating.

I knew something that she didn't though; the guy she cheated on me with, ratted her out to me.

So, yeah women cheat too.

Attraction isn't always Just physical.

I have to be just as attracted(if not more-so) to a woman's mind/heart, as I am to her body.

If I am not attacted to Both of those attributes, then I don't want be involved with her at all.(The woman should feel the same way(my opinion).

And No, a woman doesn't have to have a "perfect" body..that's a stereotype.

An ugly personality, often has a nasty way of making great boobs/asses/legs look very ugly too.

People in a relationship should trust each other(like alot of other people have already posted);

they shouldn't say things like: "I don't want you going there Alone without me".

I'm sorry, but statements like that, make a person sound insecure.

If you can't trust your S.O. to go out alone, to wherever; that means you don't trust them, and if its like that in the relationship, then why be in it???

Seriously.

YES THIS

I agree with almost everything COTN said, but to make my own points:

Dishonesty in a relationship, in all forms, is inexcusable. Whether or not it's "cheating" is a moot point because it's a deal breaker no matter what you call it.

As for the rest of the things on your list; it totally depends on the terms of the relationship. There are malicious and harmless forms of just about everything you mentioned. If you are honest with your partner, then I think flirting, dancing, sometimes even kissing, is not really that big of a deal. If you have an open or poly relationship, the list of what is acceptable is even broader.

If you (and I mean the general "you" here, not talking to anyone in particular) trust your partner and feel secure in your relationship, then honestly most of this stuff shouldn't matter. For example, if your sexual needs are being fulfilled then who really cares who looks at what porn? If I felt that I had to worry about any of this stuff, then I'd know the person wasn't right for me.

AGAIN YES THIS

Good points from COTN & Tygerlili... especially COTN's point that women are just as capable of dishonesty as men. And of superficiality, although when women are obsessed with the superficial it is usually wealth/status rather than physical appearance.

If someone of whatever gender is repeatedly ending up with dishonest/disrespectful partners... they need to ask, "Why am I attracting, and then settling for, this type of person? Am I creating a self-fulfilling prophecy?" This is a really easy pattern to fall into and very hard to recognize for those who are caught up in it.

AGAIN AGAIN YES THIS

...CC is very sexually charged and sexually open, most people don't like to be tied down...

Are we talking about the same City Club? Actually I'd say a lot of people there like to be tied down!

...

...

...Oh fuck wait nm that's not what you meant, is it?

[Tacohitts]

This is why I refuse to ever want to be with anyone in my entire life,can't trust anyone,you can't cheat on yourself

[TheOsakaKoneko]

Also I just wanted to add that as someone above said, it's NOT about having a perfect body. Maybe if you expect your partner to have one...but I have faaaar from the perfect body and I've had no trouble finding some pretty awesome guys who are willing to put up with me.

I don't think people care as much about physical appearance as a lot of people worry they do. We all want to look our best (hopefully) but I don't think most people care too much about what their partners look like, beyond a certain point. People just want a meaningful connection and someone to spend their time with to make it more enjoyable.

[Tacohitts]

I look at how healthy someone looks as well,someone who is 500+lbs I am not interested in,

skinny as a rail either,big boned/some plumpness is fine with me,but all together its how

honest the person is,that the biggest thing.everyone is different

[Rev.Reverence]

Are we talking about the same City Club? Actually I'd say a lot of people there like to be tied down!

...

...

...Oh fuck wait nm that's not what you meant, is it?

[scyko_kitty]

Would you consider him being with another guy cheating? I dont think it matters what sex you are with girl or guy when you lay in the bed with someone other then your partner or without your partners consent its cheating.

I honestly don't see that as cheating. I've told him he can as long as he is safe (yes he is bi-sexual too). But he doesn't want me with another girl.

[TheOsakaKoneko]

I honestly don't see that as cheating. I've told him he can as long as he is safe (yes he is bi-sexual too). But he doesn't want me with another girl.

I don't really understand..would you consider it cheating if he was with another girl? If you just want an open relationship, then that makes some sense - you want open, he doesn't. That simple. But if you think it's cheating if it's mxf but not mxm or fxf, I don't get it. He can't get pregnant if he's with a girl either, so...by your logic that wouldn't be cheating?

[Rev.Reverence]

[Onyx]

*swoon*

Reading this makes me want to eat your brains.

Oh, come now, let's not aim high or anything. Lets not consider being on one's own and being slightly indefuckin'pendent for all of a half an hour. Most people's ideals for movies, music and the arts in general are a heaping load of wildebeest ass-pudding anyways, why hold any realistic or honest ideals for relationships? That would mean your're not full of "eat shit"

Since we're on the topic, here's some specfuckin'tacular dating advice for guys and girls alike. Not for any one person on this list, but rather for anyone who seems to keep finding themselves in the worst of relationships and may need a few helpful pointers on what to look for in a mate.

-Always claim that you're looking for someone honest for irony's sake because the exercise in redundancy has already started. You don't want someone who's honest because you're not honest yourself. If you were, you could point out someone's dishonesty a mile away long before you get involved, but you don't and you will date charlatan after charlatan and never learn a single damned lesson from it. You're just pissed because in the past, their dishonesty hurt you more than yours hurt them.

-Always be sure to aim high and date the dumb chunk of feldspar who has the most colossal collection of x-box games of any 32 year old you've ever met. Because all of that BS you get about "I'm going back to school someday, I'll find employment someday, I'll take my own damned kids out to the park someday..." Is just as much a fantasy as all the legendary characters in the world of x-box.

-When you do find a girlfriend, do your best to show how much you know about ancient history by acting like a dumb fucking cro-magnon, and be sure that she feels as insecure, oppressed and unappreciated as possible. You can do this by harmful insults, being possesive and throwing her a good heartfelt beating from time to time. It really helps to make your job as "Thag smash animals into food" guy a lot easier without having to take any sass from your warm fuck puppet and maker of hot foods. Remember, when it comes to disagreements between a man and a woman, might makes right. (And hopefully also jail time)

-Never be fooled into thinking that tattoos don't directly equate into character. It has been scientifically proven that the amount of ink someone has permanently needled into their body directly correlates with honesty, virtue, hard work, wit, and lots of fun. So the next time you see some douchebag whose entire life has amounted to nothing more than several thousands of dollars worth of trashy tattoos that will be exactly the same 20 years from now, be ye encouraged, they've gotta be awesome if they have that many tattoos. Don't even bother getting to know them, you can take them home to mom, and she will know by his tattoos, that he's absofuckinlutely stellar and would gladly sacrifice a few extra tattoos to help your kids get a few books for school.

-If your idea of clever and a "great sense of humor" is the most crass, offensive and "fuck" ridden vulgarity possible from the English language, get yourself sterilized, get yout significant other sterilized, get some Dane Cook dvd's and stay home... forever.

-Everyone who is in a band is the best possible candidate for you to date. No one in their right mind would EVAR consider dressing like a rock star, learning a few notes on a casio keyboard and plagiarizing their favorite 5 bands just because they know a bunch of dumb broads will totally show up to their next gig and ride their sweaty little vienna sausage simply on account of their being in a local band. This is a great way to filter the piss out of the gene pool.

-Act as whiny, unloved, and depressed as possible. Because everyone knows that a grown woman wants nothing more than to raise a 25 year old basement lord who can't scrape the shit out his own pampers. Try to get as much attention as possible through your chronic depression, because I'm sure your woman would truly cherish your selfish, psychopathic, little mood swings. I'm sure she'll look forward to supporting your alcohol habit with her hard earned money because your 16 hours a week at Cinnabon won't feed your 4 kids AND buy a pint of Jimmy Beam every day.

-D00des, always put up a big act and craft an elaborate massive facade about how awesome you are, and all you expect to be. Because if it's not true, once she finds out, she's sure to blather all of your inadequacies and delusion all over the internet. That will prolly knock you down a peg or two.

-Always look for the most weak willed and wishy washy traits in a mate. They'll be VERY easy to manipulate and then you can have everything you want as long as they're always afraid to lose you. This generally does not work out for the other person, but what do you care? The whole relationship is about you anyways. Disagree? see my first point above about honesty. Generally if I meet someone who is limp-wristed and easy to push around, you can guarantee that whoever they're dating is readily manipulating the strings on their limp wrists and telling them how co-dependent they should be if they really love them.

Last freebee tip here, and I'm ruining a big secret for a lot of guys, but I really don't care because I'm not gay and I'll never be in your guild anyways.

Guys know very well, that if they have money, and a nice car and sweet tattoos (and particularly if you're in a band); GIRLS WILL FUCK THEM. They are very good at acting like they are interested in more and that there is a lot more to them than just wanting to lay some pipe, but they know many girls will be fooled as long as they have money, a nice car and some sweet tattoos. (Or are in a myspace band with 10,000+ friends.) If they lose the chick, that's great because I say again; Guys know very well, that if they have money, and a nice car and sweet tattoos (and particularly if you're in a band); GIRLS WILL FUCK THEM.

If you've fallen for this before and been burned, it's your own damned fault. Quit being a dizzy, cock brained, simpleton and stop dating people on account of things that are nothing more than a grand facade. And if you do continue to date them, quit whining about it and go gag on a Prince Albert in a Lexus.

The end

[scyko_kitty]

I don't really understand..would you consider it cheating if he was with another girl? If you just want an open relationship, then that makes some sense - you want open, he doesn't. That simple. But if you think it's cheating if it's mxf but not mxm or fxf, I don't get it. He can't get pregnant if he's with a girl either, so...by your logic that wouldn't be cheating?

no what I ment is that I don't see it as cheating if he is with anther man. i just want him to be safe.

[TheOsakaKoneko]

no what I ment is that I don't see it as cheating if he is with anther man. i just want him to be safe.

Actually, I got that that's what you meant, since that's exactly what you said. What I'm saying is that I don't understand how him being with another guy is any different than him being with another girl.

I have a feeling he doesn't see any difference between you being with another guy and you being with another girl.