know your

[Homicidalheathen]

Ramien shaman is my term for any of these so called phoney asses out there these days. There are allot of them, (I have met a few) they think they will get some stupid ass to pay top $ to get sick or dirty and you may not get anything out of it at all...be careful! Get good referrences and prepare well. I also heard this was once a good shaman but that he started charging to much and his guides left him. He was a speaker in the movie the secret.

PRESCOTT, Ariz. - A 38-year-old New York woman who died after sitting in a sauna-like sweat lodge at a scenic Arizona resort was an avid surfer and hiker who was "in top shape," took self-improvement seriously and had a passion for art, a family spokesman said.

Kirby Brown of Westtown, N.Y., had no pre-existing health conditions that would have kept her from participating in an otherwise safe activity, said cousin and family spokesman Tom McFeeley. That two people died and 19 others became ill indicates that "something went horribly wrong."

"Our only thought is shock, sadness and surprise," McFeeley said. "There will be plenty of time to react to the truth of what happened here, but we believe it is pointless to be angry or to place blame or to make assumptions before we understand what occurred here."

Brown was one of two people who died Thursday evening after being overcome in a crudely built sweat lodge during a spiritual cleansing ceremony at the Angel Valley Retreat Center. Authorities on Saturday identified the other victim as 40-year-old James Shore of Milwaukee. A man who answered the door at Shore's address in Wisconsin said he had no immediate comment.

Nineteen other people were taken to hospitals, suffering from burns, dehydration, respiratory arrest, kidney failure or elevated body temperature. Most were soon released, but one remained in critical condition Saturday. Autopsies on Brown and Shore were conducted Friday, but the results weren't disclosed pending additional tests.

haven't determined what caused the deaths and illnesses but ruled out carbon monoxide poisoning. Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh said Saturday his detectives were focusing on self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray and his staff as they try to determine if criminal negligence played a role. Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state. No charges have been filed.

"We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals," Waugh said. He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed. Ray's recent postings on his Twitter account said he was "shocked and saddened" by the tragedy.

"My deep heartfelt condolences to family and friends of those who lost their lives," he wrote. "I am spending the weekend in prayer and meditation for all involved in this difficult time; and I ask you to join me in doing the same.

Ray's company, James Ray International, is based in Carlsbad, Calif. His publicist, Howard Bragman, declined to comment Friday and didn't return a call Saturday from The Associated Press. The Angel Valley Retreat Center is owned by Michael and Amayra Hamilton, who have declined to comment.

Ray rented the resort to hold a five-day "Spiritual Warrior" retreat that promised to "absolutely change your life." Ray has held similar retreats at the resort in the past. Participants, whose ages ranged from 30 to the 60s, paid between $9,000 and $10,000 to attend this year's event.

Between 55 and 65 people were crowded into the 415-square-foot sweat lodge during a two-hour period that consisted of eight 15-minute rounds and various spiritual exercises led by Ray, Waugh said. After each round, the flap to the crudely constructed structure was raised to allow more heated rocks to be broughtinside.

Authorities said participants were highly encouraged but not forced to remain in the sweat lodge for the entire two hours.

The participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness, then ate a breakfast buffet Thursday morning. After various seminars, they entered the sweat lodge lightly dressed at 3 p.m.

Two hours later, a woman dialed 911 to say that two people, whom Waugh identified as Brown and Shore, did not have a pulse and weren't breathing.

A nurse hired by Ray was directing rescue efforts including CPR when emergency crews arrived, Waugh said. Shore and Brown were pronounced dead when they arrived at a hospital.

Sheriff's Lt. David Rhodes said authorities are looking into whether there was a lag time between the first signs of medical distress and the emergency call. McFeeley said Brown had attended similar retreats, although he wasn't certain whether any were hosted by Ray. He said Brown, who grew up in Brooklyn and Westtown, saw the outing as a chance to continue on a positive path in life.

Brown, a graduate of the State University of New York at Genesco, had two sisters who recently got married, two new nephews and a focus on "making the world more beautiful for someone, not only with her art but with her heart," McFeeley said. Although the family is saddened by her death, he said Brown created a roadmap by which others should live.

"She was the least selfish, kindest person I knew," he said.

http://www.myfoxny.c...eat_lodge_death

-----------------------------

October 10, 2009 (PRESCOTT, AZ) (WLS) -- A Milwaukee man is one of the two people who died in a sweat lodge at an Arizona resort.

40-year old James Shore of Milwaukee was in the makeshift lodge in Prescott, Arizona when he and 20-other people were overcome and rushed to a hospital.

One other person, a 38-year old woman from New York also died.

The group was taking part in what's described as a spiritual cleansing ceremony.

http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=7058503

Edited October 13, 2009 by Homicidalheathen

[Homicidalheathen]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/12/15/ac.sweat.lodge.deaths.cnn

[Scales]

This is a sad situation.

I somewhat like the phrase that a "true spiritual master teaches for free," though I could see myself charging people fair fees as far as helping them with meditation if I felt qualified to do it. I study free text or videos online and will probably never pay to go to any guru. I think there is enough free media online for anyone dedicated to do whatever spiritual it is they're trying to do even if I'm partial to believing in it. I hope more people work independently or in independent groups towards spirituality or self-improvement. Charity should be where the bulk of "spiritual" money is going, and charity to needs a really cautious anti-dogmatic balance for it to be an achievement.

[Homicidalheathen]

I too, have never felt it right to charge for a spiritual gift...unless its a talent like music.

But like psychic healing or reading...no.

Now if someone wants to GIVE you something because the spirit so moved them, fine.

But you should not 'expect' anything and stay humble. I used to think when people got greedy the gift went away but have since learned there are people out there with incredible gifts who abuse the hell out of it and seem to hold onto the power. Kinda discouraging and confusing...

This is a sad situation.

I somewhat like the phrase that a "true spiritual master teaches for free," though I could see myself charging people fair fees as far as helping them with meditation if I felt qualified to do it. I study free text or videos online and will probably never pay to go to any guru. I think there is enough free media online for anyone dedicated to do whatever spiritual it is they're trying to do even if I'm partial to believing in it. I hope more people work independently or in independent groups towards spirituality or self-improvement. Charity should be where the bulk of "spiritual" money is going, and charity to needs a really cautious anti-dogmatic balance for it to be an achievement.

[Onyx]

There are some other articles describing the bizarre things that he did in these seminars.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/james-ray-employee-paramedics-mistook-sweat-lodge-mass/story?id=9283937

I actually attended one of his lectures when he visited Detroit. I was pretty impressed with him at the time. There was nothing like the weird stuff described in his paid seminars. He actually had simple, practical advice in starting small businesses and getting out of debt and moving forward with confidence about things.

I've lost all respect for him after reading all the crap he was doing.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Onyx