phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 What you just described here.... is this not the basis of all religion? And I agree.. if this is what they are doing, it is not science, it is belief. (I know I am opening up a floodgate here) This is not mockery Nor this +1... hard for me to get into these conversations and still get work done... But I agree with the above... The "God in the Gaps" argument doesn't hold water, as the gaps get smaller and smaller.... Here is a question for the believers out there to ponder... If we go by some of the factors of intelligent design, in that certain things are so fundamentally complex a higher being MUST have designed it. And if God is as people say he/it is... Then He/She/It would be the most complex thing in existence... so something higher up MUST have designed Him/Her/It, by virtue of that argument. In other words... What made God? Nor This: You are speaking wisdom sir... Nor this (in fact this is directly from conversations you and I have had) There is one way I can understand the use of the word "God" in an argument such as this... if people are referring to God as "That which is unknown to us at this point" I can dig that term. God as a personality, being, some dude, all powerful thinking thingy.... not sold on that. I honestly see no mockery here either. I agree completely A "God" is one possibility amongst the infinite that are out there.... Why I lead towards Atheism with a shot of Agnostic... I know enough to know that I DONT KNOW... This is just in this thread alone. Where have I not taken it seriously?... with the exception of the Halitosis comment meaning the universe has bad breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sure..your right...but so am I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sure..your right...but so am I... Can you elaborate on that good sir? I am honestly at a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 A very large portion of your posts, are just disagreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 You may think that the Universe having bad breath is a funny joke, but allot of peoples see more than shit when they look out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 A very large portion of your posts, are just disagreeing. If you would care to PM me... I would not mind discussing this further.... I think I quoted a few that were simply agreeing in this thread... in fact I can't think of any that were specifically disagreeing with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 The "God in the Gaps" argument doesn't hold water, as the gaps get smaller and smaller.... ..that's why it DOES hold water... Here is a question for the believers out there to ponder... If we go by some of the factors of intelligent design, in that certain things are so fundamentally complex a higher being MUST have designed it. And if God is as people say he/it is... Then He/She/It would be the most complex thing in existence... so something higher up MUST have designed Him/Her/It, by virtue of that argument. In other words... What made God? (G*D IS G*D, ie. G*D made itself.){self-determined} I don't know how many times I have personally said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 ...now here, you ARE really just naysaying the thread. Nice spin though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 ..that's why it DOES hold water... (G*D IS G*D, ie. G*D made itself.){self-determined} I don't know how many times I have personally said this. Seriously... you had me a bit lost.... but yes you and I have talked about these things in the same way many times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 ...now here, you ARE really just naysaying the thread. Nice spin though. Do you mean by agreeing with a naysayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev.Reverence Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 ...now here, you ARE really just naysaying the thread. Nice spin though. Do you mean by agreeing with a naysayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Still a bit confused... okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn asunder Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 rev., phee, please take this to PMs, as it's become a personal debate between the two of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phee Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 If you would care to PM me... I would not mind discussing this further.... I think I quoted a few that were simply agreeing in this thread... in fact I can't think of any that were specifically disagreeing with anyone. Already way ahead of you Mr. Torn Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaf The Horse With Tears Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 hey, gaf, did you read the whole wiki article on loop quantum gravity? 1st thing that struck me was #3... you're trying to use this theory for a big bang based on a mathematical singularity, when it's stated that this theory replaces the "big bang" with a "big bounce", therefore it's not really valid for your argument. i'm going to finish reading it when i get back, i have to head out for a bit. thanks for letting me know about this, it's really interesting! I didn't read about it on wiki but I can;t see how they could fuck up talking about this stuff. Anyway, I wasn't using the science of the thoery to back up my claim, only the math. The math involved does in fact desribe the conditions within a black hole. Which is what you said could not be done. It even describes the Universe that existed, to some extent, before this one did. The point I was trying to make was that even though physics break down within a singularity and quantum mechanics takes over... quantum mechanics never breaks down even as far into a black hole as the "center". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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