Sci-Fi writer beaten by Port Huron border guards

[jynxxxedangel]

Wreckie Hijacking!:

the peper spray, if used and he did not seem to be phased, seems to me there is some substances there he was on

Edited January 3, 2010 by jynxxxedangel

[Rev.Reverence]

I noted in several comments by people in various blog stories on this that police routinely way overstate the the actions of the defendant in order to paint them in a bad light - as a cover their ass tactic. Until we see video, which there should be, I wouldn't take this any more seriously then the author's story. As I stated before, if the video "get's lost" the cops are the guilty ones. They have something to hide.

Good point

[freydis]

Yeah--since when can someone "wipe off" pepper spray?

And that still doesnt address depositing him coatless on the other side of the boarder at night.

Edited January 4, 2010 by freydis

[candyman]

I noted in several comments by people in various blog stories on this that police routinely way overstate the the actions of the defendant in order to paint them in a bad light - as a cover their ass tactic. Until we see video, which there should be, I wouldn't take this any more seriously then the author's story. As I stated before, if the video "get's lost" the cops are the guilty ones. They have something to hide.

So...comments on blogs are more trustworthy than a newspaper or first hand accounts? And there is no video to lose...nobody uses a vhs video system anymore...well maybe Canada does...

They should have sent this video straight to the show COPS...the dick made an even bigger dick out of himself and caused other people to be dicks. How the fuck would you like the job of keeping track of border crossings...it is easy to piss of those people? Shit I have gone through more crap flying between STATES than this guy did on the border...I will not take pity on this guy but I will donate either one pair of testicles or a small game to keep him occupied while they search. I am sorry but if you cannot take the searches they give today you deserve to get your ass beat...

Oh yeah I also want to see this guy do the Hokey Pokey...

"You put your left foot in"

"Fuck you!"

Edited January 4, 2010 by candyman

[Msterbeau]

So...comments on blogs are more trustworthy than a newspaper or first hand accounts? And there is no video to lose...nobody uses a vhs video system anymore...well maybe Canada does...

They should have sent this video straight to the show COPS...the dick made an even bigger dick out of himself and caused other people to be dicks. How the fuck would you like the job of keeping track of border crossings...it is easy to piss of those people? Shit I have gone through more crap flying between STATES than this guy did on the border...I will not take pity on this guy but I will donate either one pair of testicles or a small game to keep him occupied while they search. I am sorry but if you cannot take the searches they give today you deserve to get your ass beat...

Oh yeah I also want to see this guy do the Hokey Pokey...

"You put your left foot in"

"Fuck you!"

Border crossings all have video surveillance. There's a video.

And the first hand account. Yeah.. I trust the word of a cop as much as I trust that of a Catholic priest. They all lie to cover their ass. One newspaper account got an important fact wrong. Why would I trust the rest?

You want to be a cop lover. Go for it. I've seen them be cool. I've seen them be complete dicks. I'll wait for a piece of evidence that is indisputable before I render judgment.

[candyman]

I never said that there wasn't video...but with the video they take today you can't lose it no matter what. Yes they could try to not release it but that won't work. I do want to see the video...he said he got shit-kicked and I really want to know if he shit his pants or not.

Also, I never said the first hand account was good either...but you made it sound like a blog was a better source...if anything blogs have more immature people on them driven by nothing but passion or a horribly biased opinion.

How can that paint me as a cop lover? I will kill the next cop that calls my custom exhaust "defective" or tries to tell me that my car is louder than a diesel truck or a stock Harley.

All I was pointing out was that this guy was a dick...and that is an understatement. These are not cops...at least not normal cops. These people have the same duty every day which consists of more bullshit that I would ever want to put up with. If they stereotype they get a shitstorm...if they don't stereotype and search someone like, oh lets say this writer, then this person gets pissed because they are OBVIOUSLY not a terrorist and this is going against their "rights". Shit, these people have a job to do and you can hate them or love them but just let them get their shit done! Get out of the vehicle, light up a cigarette (pick your nose if you are a non-smoker), make small talk if they are in the mood, and the leave when they are done...easy as shit. No the "cops" are not blameless here but this guy could not follow simple directions! If he is as smart as he thinks he is then he should at least know how this border search thing works. I hope he doesn't go to airports...those boxy-things with beeping lights probably scan your brain man! They aren't looking for metal they are stealing your brain!

Instead of a big sign that said "Border Search Fail" this guy got a beating...and frankly I that is close to the proper treatment for his stupidity.

[Msterbeau]

I never said that there wasn't video...but with the video they take today you can't lose it no matter what. Yes they could try to not release it but that won't work. I do want to see the video...he said he got shit-kicked and I really want to know if he shit his pants or not.

Also, I never said the first hand account was good either...but you made it sound like a blog was a better source...if anything blogs have more immature people on them driven by nothing but passion or a horribly biased opinion.

How can that paint me as a cop lover? I will kill the next cop that calls my custom exhaust "defective" or tries to tell me that my car is louder than a diesel truck or a stock Harley.

All I was pointing out was that this guy was a dick...and that is an understatement. These are not cops...at least not normal cops. These people have the same duty every day which consists of more bullshit that I would ever want to put up with. If they stereotype they get a shitstorm...if they don't stereotype and search someone like, oh lets say this writer, then this person gets pissed because they are OBVIOUSLY not a terrorist and this is going against their "rights". Shit, these people have a job to do and you can hate them or love them but just let them get their shit done! Get out of the vehicle, light up a cigarette (pick your nose if you are a non-smoker), make small talk if they are in the mood, and the leave when they are done...easy as shit. No the "cops" are not blameless here but this guy could not follow simple directions! If he is as smart as he thinks he is then he should at least know how this border search thing works. I hope he doesn't go to airports...those boxy-things with beeping lights probably scan your brain man! They aren't looking for metal they are stealing your brain!

Instead of a big sign that said "Border Search Fail" this guy got a beating...and frankly I that is close to the proper treatment for his stupidity.

We have no idea if he was a dick. We have no proof. We have a he said/she said scenario. They could make that video disappear really easily. This is the government, remember? They may get crucified for it, but ultimately there will never be conclusive proof that they were guilty(Or not). A report is not proof. It's the words of one side. The news report is not proof. It's a collection of statements that are all from one side of the argument. They don't seem to have talked to the Canadian. (Or more likely, he won't talk to them on his lawyers advice because there will be court proceedings.)

I will allow for one thing - He shouldn't have gotten out of his car. As an American, we kinda know this. But him being Canadian... He's been raised in a different environment. And yeah... Canada can be quite different than the US in aspects like this. My parents are Canadian... I outta know.

[freydis]

We have no idea if he was a dick. We have no proof. We have a he said/she said scenario. They could make that video disappear really easily. This is the government, remember? They may get crucified for it, but ultimately there will never be conclusive proof that they were guilty(Or not). A report is not proof. It's the words of one side. The news report is not proof. It's a collection of statements that are all from one side of the argument. They don't seem to have talked to the Canadian. (Or more likely, he won't talk to them on his lawyers advice because there will be court proceedings.)

I will allow for one thing - He shouldn't have gotten out of his car. As an American, we kinda know this. But him being Canadian... He's been raised in a different environment. And yeah... Canada can be quite different than the US in aspects like this. My parents are Canadian... I outta know.

From what I've read on the guy, he has a bit of an attitude when it comes to American government. So likely, when he was rather abruptly told to pull over on the way OUT of the country, he probably reacted belligerantly. From reading accounts of what happened, he got out of the vehicle and was told to get back in. Ok... usually if theyre going to search it, they *want* you out, dont they? Or is that just the proper searches on the Canadian side? When he got out, they probably yelled at him. If you're pissed already, and someone is yelling at you, how would you react? You might yell back. And since this is a border patrol person, that likely escalated into physical force. By their own description, this is when he finally decided getting back into the car might be a good idea, putting a door between him and the screaming violent dude. Instead, they grapple him to the ground. Not everyone will comply to physical violence under panic. For some, the natural reaction will be to struggle. I'd bet the truth is that the writer was a dick, didnt take well to being searched on the way OUT of the country, and Border Patrol, being pumped up over recent terrorism issues (did this happen after the plane bomber attempt?) decided to take their allowed parameters to the max and beat the crap out of the mouthy foreigner. He deserved being hauled in for questioning for being a dick. Not being pepper sprayed, beaten, and dumped in the elements on foot and coatless. Oh, and adding insult to injury? Then being told he could serve two years for essentially resisting the officers beating the crap out of him.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Ive been reading this guys blog. He hates Americans and the American government. On top of that, he seems to be an arrogent asshole.

Hey Marc... I don;t understand your postion. You say you wont trust a cop becuse they all lie to cover their ass... but you somehow trust an average person? Somehow only people in uniform will lie to cover thier ass?

[candyman]

From what I've read on the guy, he has a bit of an attitude when it comes to American government. So likely, when he was rather abruptly told to pull over on the way OUT of the country, he probably reacted belligerantly. From reading accounts of what happened, he got out of the vehicle and was told to get back in. Ok... usually if theyre going to search it, they *want* you out, dont they? Or is that just the proper searches on the Canadian side? When he got out, they probably yelled at him. If you're pissed already, and someone is yelling at you, how would you react? You might yell back. And since this is a border patrol person, that likely escalated into physical force. By their own description, this is when he finally decided getting back into the car might be a good idea, putting a door between him and the screaming violent dude. Instead, they grapple him to the ground. Not everyone will comply to physical violence under panic. For some, the natural reaction will be to struggle. I'd bet the truth is that the writer was a dick, didnt take well to being searched on the way OUT of the country, and Border Patrol, being pumped up over recent terrorism issues (did this happen after the plane bomber attempt?) decided to take their allowed parameters to the max and beat the crap out of the mouthy foreigner. He deserved being hauled in for questioning for being a dick. Not being pepper sprayed, beaten, and dumped in the elements on foot and coatless. Oh, and adding insult to injury? Then being told he could serve two years for essentially resisting the officers beating the crap out of him.

You NEVER get out on your own free will. If he was told to pull over then he should have pulled over and that is it...again its simple directions. He turned a simple, yet irritating, search into a shitstorm. I don't know how the fact that it was a border patrol person makes physical force the first move on their part. I have had them yell at me but I have never even seen an agent grab someones arm let alone beat the living shit out of them. For the most part border patrol agents suck when it comes to enforcing anything...they take action even slower than France. They fucked up somewhere along the line but that doesn't mean that they started this at all...ever see this shit go down in an airport? No not a beating but a big confrontation...its the nutty people that think they are special.

[Msterbeau]

Ive been reading this guys blog. He hates Americans and the American government. On top of that, he seems to be an arrogant asshole.

Hey Marc... I don;t understand your position. You say you wont trust a cop because they all lie to cover their ass... but you somehow trust an average person? Somehow only people in uniform will lie to cover their ass?

My position is that you don't necessarily trust a cop because he/she is a cop.

The more I read, the more I think this is a mess caused by a clash of personalities involved. Canadian with at least some measure of attitude problem and huge over escalation by the border guys. Irresistible force meets immovable object and all that.

I have to say... I think the idea that you can't ask questions of the police or border guards.. politely... is rather fascist sounding.

[candyman]

I have to say... I think the idea that you can't ask questions of the police or border guards.. politely... is rather fascist sounding.

True...but I never met anyone that cared that much. If you have nothing to hide and have no problems then what is the point in asking? If you are all good the search will usually end quickly with a few possible question about a few items that you should be able to answer very easily. Now, this dude bragged about how they didn't find anything yet he did have pot on him...wtf is that shit? From personal experience pulling over, getting out when told, having a cigarette and adding a few yawns, and then saying sorry for the mess in the car usually end the shit in about 10 minutes and they don't even search the whole vehicle.

Like it or not having you luggage or vehicle searched makes you a "suspect". When that is the case questions are not asked by you. No you are not guilty and as long as you really are not guilty the search is more of a joke or something that wastes a little time that in the whole scheme of things means jack shit. You want them to go back to profiling and leave "normal" white people that are "obviously" innocent alone? Shit is messed up and we all gotta deal with it...throwing a shit fit just makes it worse. In a nutshell I am saying bend over and take it like a man because there really is nothing for you to take at all.

[AstralCrux]

I'm thinking... I never really hear much about how border patrol sucks and starts beating on people at random, but we hear about cops all across the country doing stupid things. By that rationale, odds are slim that the border patrol folks are normally volitile. I've never seen a scuffle at a border crossing. Anyone else? It's a condensed area and god knows Detroiters would be talking about anything that happened here for weeks. Because you'd get a good handful of nice chatty witnesses, I'm thinking the guy was nuts. But, that is based on the above mental process.

[candyman]

I'm thinking... I never really hear much about how border patrol sucks and starts beating on people at random, but we hear about cops all across the country doing stupid things. By that rationale, odds are slim that the border patrol folks are normally volitile. I've never seen a scuffle at a border crossing. Anyone else? It's a condensed area and god knows Detroiters would be talking about anything that happened here for weeks. Because you'd get a good handful of nice chatty witnesses, I'm thinking the guy was nuts. But, that is based on the above mental process.

There are always scuffles...at borders and airports. You know those people that are SO important and all that shit and they NEED to get past and there is NOTHING wrong? It does happen and its usually caused by morons...and those people that have the god-complex...which this guy probably has...

[freydis]

I'm thinking... I never really hear much about how border patrol sucks and starts beating on people at random, but we hear about cops all across the country doing stupid things. By that rationale, odds are slim that the border patrol folks are normally volitile. I've never seen a scuffle at a border crossing. Anyone else? It's a condensed area and god knows Detroiters would be talking about anything that happened here for weeks. Because you'd get a good handful of nice chatty witnesses, I'm thinking the guy was nuts. But, that is based on the above mental process.

Do they not happen, or do we just not hear about them? Im thinking we heard about this because he's a writer and made a big deal out of it...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

My position is that you don't necessarily trust a cop because he/she is a cop.

I don't understand that mentality. I have been pulled over about 100 times in my life. I have been cuffed and stuffed in a patrol car 3 times (though only ended up being arrested once). I never once got hurt or felt like I might get hurt.

I have on the other hand been mugged at knife point once (wasn't a cop), been jumped by a "gang" for being white in the hispanic part of town (still no cops) and have been in over 100 fist fights (cops showed up a few times but none ever hurt anyone).

Really, if you have done nothign wrong.... why fear cops? or if you do fear the cops, comply with thier orders. It is law that you have to do what they say and it is also law that if you dont they cant force you to what they say.

[Msterbeau]

I don't understand that mentality. I have been pulled over about 100 times in my life. I have been cuffed and stuffed in a patrol car 3 times (though only ended up being arrested once). I never once got hurt or felt like I might get hurt.

I have on the other hand been mugged at knife point once (wasn't a cop), been jumped by a "gang" for being white in the hispanic part of town (still no cops) and have been in over 100 fist fights (cops showed up a few times but none ever hurt anyone).

Really, if you have done nothign wrong.... why fear cops? or if you do fear the cops, comply with thier orders. It is law that you have to do what they say and it is also law that if you dont they cant force you to what they say.

I have seen cops flout the laws. I have seen cops convicted of some pretty heinous crimes. They're human. No more and no less. But being human means they fuck up, and they are in a position where we hold them to a higher standard, therefore fucking up has greater consequences. Children watching them fuck up implants a seed in their brain that if the people who uphold the law don't follow it, why should they? Cops fucking up (And then covering their asses) means people go to jail who shouldn't and people get killed. Until they prove to me that they take their office seriously and don't abuse that position, I will remain wary of each one individually. If you want to feel like they aren't going to hurt to you, that's your right. I didn't say they would. But they are no LESS likely then any other human being to do so either.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

But they are no LESS likely then any other human being to do so either.

and by your own logic... no more likely. As there are fewer cops than non-cops by far... the odds of a cop screwing up or screwing you over is far less than the odds that the next nobody you see is going to.

[darknight1]

It goes to show that Port Huron is really full of jackasses.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

homeboy got his day in court: http://io9.com/5497556/sf-author-peter-watts-found-guilty-of-felony-resistance-against-border-guard

[Rev.Reverence]

homeboy got his day in court: http://io9.com/5497556/sf-author-peter-watts-found-guilty-of-felony-resistance-against-border-guard

..you are so cool with that whole bringin' in the end of the story

[DJ Saint]

GUILTY... huh, imagine that!

[torn asunder]

i'm personally having a hard time reconciling the fact that they seemed to define resisting as asking questions. you can sure bet i'm gonna ask what i did/why i'm being asked to do something. is that no longer a right?

[freydis]

i'm personally having a hard time reconciling the fact that they seemed to define resisting as asking questions. you can sure bet i'm gonna ask what i did/why i'm being asked to do something. is that no longer a right?

....according to this jury's conclusion, it's obstruction and noncompliance.

:(

[candyman]

i'm personally having a hard time reconciling the fact that they seemed to define resisting as asking questions. you can sure bet i'm gonna ask what i did/why i'm being asked to do something. is that no longer a right?

With security the way it is that is resisting. Seriously, if there is nothing wrong and you know that you have no problems just man up and let them do their shit...its what they are there for. If you know that nothing on your end is out of order it is just a speed bump and although it is time that you believe you should not have to take it is not the end of the world. This it their job and due to many law suits and various other legal actions their job is very difficult to carry out...the have gone though bullshit before and yes asking a question to them equals resistance. I have been pulled aside twice when going through airport security...both times it cut the time to make my plane VERY close. However, that is their job and it is not as easy as people would like to think. I was pissed but because of advice from others I just played along so that it all went smooth...it is not conforming, you are not losing rights, and you will not lose your soul...I compare bitching about this to bitching about having to place your order at the screen before you go to pick up your food at the McDonalds drive-though.