Sci-Fi writer beaten by Port Huron border guards

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

i'm personally having a hard time reconciling the fact that they seemed to define resisting as asking questions. you can sure bet i'm gonna ask what i did/why i'm being asked to do something. is that no longer a right?

Yes, you can ask... either as you are doing what the officer has asked or after you have done it. Same as it has always been.

Now excuse me while I go laugh my ass off.

[torn asunder]

Yes, you can ask... either as you are doing what the officer has asked or after you have done it. Same as it has always been.

Now excuse me while I go laugh my ass off.

laughing about what? that this guy was convicted, or at my apparent lack of knowledge of my rights? if it's the former, i don't see what's so funny!? if it's the latter, well...

i'm the first to admit that i don't know them (my rights) that well, but it seems like i'm afforded some protection from unreasonable search and seizure, and if i don't ask/they don't tell me why they want me to do something, it seems like i'm giving permission/giving up my rights in that respect by complying without question. they need some sort of reason to suspect me of something in order to search, don't they? shouldn't they be required to tell me what that is? i'd love to be educated on this if i'm wrong, so help a brother out!

[candyman]

i'm the first to admit that i don't know them (my rights) that well, but it seems like i'm afforded some protection from unreasonable search and seizure, and if i don't ask/they don't tell me why they want me to do something, it seems like i'm giving permission/giving up my rights in that respect by complying without question. they need some sort of reason to suspect me of something in order to search, don't they? shouldn't they be required to tell me what that is? i'd love to be educated on this if i'm wrong, so help a brother out!

Any search and seizure done under the authority of border control agents is not unreasonable. It may be unreasonable to you but that is their job. I don't get how this is so hard to understand. What would the point of having border agents be if they had to ask people for permission to search for things? Well, they would probably get nowhere or they would at least get sued for being biased against foreigners. Do you know what happens at the airport when they want to check you stuff? They just tell you to give them your bag or to step over to the table. If you ask questions they tend to ignore you unless your questions get annoying or you start yelling in which case they probably will react.

I hope this guy has a list of tips for next time he crosses a border or goes through a line of security...#1 is STFU!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

laughing about what? that this guy was convicted, or at my apparent lack of knowledge of my rights? if it's the former, i don't see what's so funny!? if it's the latter, well...

i'm the first to admit that i don't know them (my rights) that well, but it seems like i'm afforded some protection from unreasonable search and seizure, and if i don't ask/they don't tell me why they want me to do something, it seems like i'm giving permission/giving up my rights in that respect by complying without question. they need some sort of reason to suspect me of something in order to search, don't they? shouldn't they be required to tell me what that is? i'd love to be educated on this if i'm wrong, so help a brother out!

Laughing at the jerk who's going to be sitting in jail for two years.

[darknight1]

Considering that this guy was arrested up at the Sarnia-Port Huron border up at the Blue Water Bridge, I'm somehow not surprised that he was found guilty. That town has a weird mentality when it comes to justice.

[torn asunder]

Laughing at the jerk who's going to be sitting in jail for two years.

ah, cool. thanks for the clarification!

[freydis]

I think two years in jail for simply being a blowhard would be a miscarriage of justice.

It would also be very bad publicity, and discourage border traffic.

I'm thinking he will get fined, and perhaps forbidden to cross awhile? Which will cut into his business, as he will not be able to appear at any American conventions. I think that would be plenty. This is too stupid for jail.

[Nightgaunt]

I'm of the belief that all this "security" is intended to be more of a way of conditioning society to accept having their rights abrogated in the name of safety. Mark my words, there will be an incident at a shopping mall and then it'll be airport-style security just to buy a pair of shoes. Oh my god! He's asking questions! He's not being meek and subservient! He has an attitude! Confiscate everything he has, rough him up, and send him home on foot! This was more about teaching people to shut up and bend over than catching terrorists. This is reflected in a lot of the posts I've seen in this thread. "If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about, right?" Wrong. That assumes the government is made up entirely of sterling examples of Humanity and are incapable of abusing power. As long as we don't do anything wrong, we shouldn't protest anything the authorities want to do to us? I don't recall who posted it, but there was a response here that amounted to "be a man and submit". I think that's precisely the sort of attitude that the more draconian elements of our government are trying to engender in the populace. How much intrusion is too much? Would you protest if there were guards in every public bathroom stall, making sure no one was carrying weapons or drugs in their underwear? How about cameras in every room of your home, monitoring for terrorist activity. Hey, if you don't have anything to hide, etc. Nut up and take your cavity search like a man.

I tend to agree with MstrBeau when it comes to cops. More and more, they seem to behave like playground bullies that never grew up. I've been pulled over twice now for the crime of driving. The officer always makes a big show of talking to you like you're a naughty child. Both times, I was asked if it was okay if the officer searched my car. Both times, I answered no, and the cop backed off. More recently, I got pulled over because my plates were four days overdue for renewal. Fine. Whatever. Legitimate reason to stop me. What sticks in my craw is that the cops around here NEVER use turn signals, go tearing through my neighborhood at 40 mph, and turn their flashers on just to go through red lights. These are not the actions of peace officers here to serve and protect; they are the actions of those who consider themselves above the law. I get fined a couple of days' pay for not using my turn signal, but Billy Bob the Cop is a Supercitizen and not subject to the same laws as the common rabble.

Maybe Peter Watts had a punch in the face coming to him because of his abrasive and/or rude nature. Federal officers however, were not the ones who should have administered it. Having a police force, be it Federal, state, or local, administering punishment is a very scary idea to me.

Let the flames begin!

[candyman]

I'm of the belief that all this "security" is intended to be more of a way of conditioning society to accept having their rights abrogated in the name of safety. Mark my words, there will be an incident at a shopping mall and then it'll be airport-style security just to buy a pair of shoes. Oh my god! He's asking questions! He's not being meek and subservient! He has an attitude! Confiscate everything he has, rough him up, and send him home on foot! This was more about teaching people to shut up and bend over than catching terrorists. This is reflected in a lot of the posts I've seen in this thread. "If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about, right?" Wrong. That assumes the government is made up entirely of sterling examples of Humanity and are incapable of abusing power. As long as we don't do anything wrong, we shouldn't protest anything the authorities want to do to us? I don't recall who posted it, but there was a response here that amounted to "be a man and submit". I think that's precisely the sort of attitude that the more draconian elements of our government are trying to engender in the populace. How much intrusion is too much? Would you protest if there were guards in every public bathroom stall, making sure no one was carrying weapons or drugs in their underwear? How about cameras in every room of your home, monitoring for terrorist activity. Hey, if you don't have anything to hide, etc. Nut up and take your cavity search like a man.

I tend to agree with MstrBeau when it comes to cops. More and more, they seem to behave like playground bullies that never grew up. I've been pulled over twice now for the crime of driving. The officer always makes a big show of talking to you like you're a naughty child. Both times, I was asked if it was okay if the officer searched my car. Both times, I answered no, and the cop backed off. More recently, I got pulled over because my plates were four days overdue for renewal. Fine. Whatever. Legitimate reason to stop me. What sticks in my craw is that the cops around here NEVER use turn signals, go tearing through my neighborhood at 40 mph, and turn their flashers on just to go through red lights. These are not the actions of peace officers here to serve and protect; they are the actions of those who consider themselves above the law. I get fined a couple of days' pay for not using my turn signal, but Billy Bob the Cop is a Supercitizen and not subject to the same laws as the common rabble.

Maybe Peter Watts had a punch in the face coming to him because of his abrasive and/or rude nature. Federal officers however, were not the ones who should have administered it. Having a police force, be it Federal, state, or local, administering punishment is a very scary idea to me.

Let the flames begin!

We already have security like that at the malls in Milwaukee. You have to be at least 18 to enter the malls without parental supervision. Pass through security on the way in and go through again on the way out. Weird? Yes. End of the world? No. Like I have said before if you personally have nothing going on that will hinder a passage through security then you have nothing to worry about. And no I am not saying that having nothing wrong will pass you through faster...you will just lose a few minutes of your time and they might see what is in your bag or car...BOO HOO! Submitting to a security search has nothing to do with draconian elements...nor is it intrusion since security checkpoint are usually in areas that you do not own and that someone wants to keep safe. So what I am supposed to protest some dudes searching my car which has nothing illegal in it yet the bouncer at the club can grab my nuts even though he knows I don't have a weapon?

On a related note the Smoking Ban in Wisconsin has this AWESOME provision that makes sure that more cops come into the bars on a more regular basis. Wow, what a great use for the police force right? They will be checking alot of ID's over and over again and I can see quite a few problems arising from this.

I hear alot of people bitch about the police forces yet...they are usually the same people that call for certain laws or regulations that not only rely on the police force for enforcement but they also increase the demand for larger police forces. I have been pulled over 12 times and I guess I got the few good officers that are still left...because you know all of them are evil and corrupt and its certainly not a stereotype. There is also nothing that says that the police must use turn signals...its one of those things that deals with all the lighting on their cars and how they operate. Look I don't love them either because they hassle me about my cars, which makes sense because they have "illegal" modifications, but it is not that hard to deal with them...they are like large babies sometimes and you just have to find out what makes them giggle.

I do not really mean to "flame" you here dude...but I have come under the impression that security and law enforcement have fallen under the same curse that the word "profit" did...that is to say that no profit is considered good and if anyone makes profit they are evil...security and law enforcement have their place and DO work however its the whole thing where Humans react with Humans and we all the Humans mixing means a fuck-up is inevitable.

[Msterbeau]

I'm of the belief that all this "security" is intended to be more of a way of conditioning society to accept having their rights abrogated in the name of safety. Mark my words, there will be an incident at a shopping mall and then it'll be airport-style security just to buy a pair of shoes. Oh my god! He's asking questions! He's not being meek and subservient! He has an attitude! Confiscate everything he has, rough him up, and send him home on foot! This was more about teaching people to shut up and bend over than catching terrorists. This is reflected in a lot of the posts I've seen in this thread. "If you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to worry about, right?" Wrong. That assumes the government is made up entirely of sterling examples of Humanity and are incapable of abusing power. As long as we don't do anything wrong, we shouldn't protest anything the authorities want to do to us? I don't recall who posted it, but there was a response here that amounted to "be a man and submit". I think that's precisely the sort of attitude that the more draconian elements of our government are trying to engender in the populace. How much intrusion is too much? Would you protest if there were guards in every public bathroom stall, making sure no one was carrying weapons or drugs in their underwear? How about cameras in every room of your home, monitoring for terrorist activity. Hey, if you don't have anything to hide, etc. Nut up and take your cavity search like a man.

I tend to agree with MstrBeau when it comes to cops. More and more, they seem to behave like playground bullies that never grew up. I've been pulled over twice now for the crime of driving. The officer always makes a big show of talking to you like you're a naughty child. Both times, I was asked if it was okay if the officer searched my car. Both times, I answered no, and the cop backed off. More recently, I got pulled over because my plates were four days overdue for renewal. Fine. Whatever. Legitimate reason to stop me. What sticks in my craw is that the cops around here NEVER use turn signals, go tearing through my neighborhood at 40 mph, and turn their flashers on just to go through red lights. These are not the actions of peace officers here to serve and protect; they are the actions of those who consider themselves above the law. I get fined a couple of days' pay for not using my turn signal, but Billy Bob the Cop is a Supercitizen and not subject to the same laws as the common rabble.

Maybe Peter Watts had a punch in the face coming to him because of his abrasive and/or rude nature. Federal officers however, were not the ones who should have administered it. Having a police force, be it Federal, state, or local, administering punishment is a very scary idea to me.

Let the flames begin!

Somewhat off your rant but related to you getting pulled over: My feeling is the cops are being used in our current economy (meaning, more than they used to be) as tax agents. They're pulling us over for the tiniest of infractions, particularly stuff like mechanical violations and minor things like your license tabs being a few days out of compliance. 4 days??? Insanity. I got pulled recently for my license plate light being burned out. Really??? You had NOTHING better to do? The only reason to do this stuff is for the $$$ that the municipalities are hurting for.

But yeah... Cops often abuse their badge to their own benefit.

[Hellion]

Good post Nightgaunt

Yeah you can't even walk anywhere without some crooked pig wanting to f7ck with you and use that all to famous "assume bullshit" bet most of them have that word tattooed on their arms,the one thing I hate more

than a crooked cop is the word assume and the bs philosophy behind it.

[candyman]

You basically just made an assumption there yourself...or are you exempt for some reason? Yeah...those damn crooked pigs always stop when I am walking to the bar to ask me if there is any reason for them to go in like a bar fight or underage drinkers...and one of those bastards even stopped to help us jump my buddies car! THAT FUCKER! I swear that they only issue extra long cables that actually reach to law enforcement people that normally use them to whip innocent people as they walk by...

And Msterbeau...some of it does seem like bullshit but do you know how many people don't give a rats ass about anything on their cars? Shit, its hard enough to get people to change their oil at 6,000 miles even if you only have them pay you in a round at the bar...like they even pay any attention to their lights. I see so many cars with turn signal, plate, and rear/back-up lights out that I am starting to go nuts. Really it is not that hard, expensive, or time consuming to replace one of those lights. As for the tabs how many people do you think let those go? Most everyone I know has theirs ordered well before they need to be replaced. Yes, I am anal when it comes to vehicles but honestly the least people could do is keep things in proper order...some drivers a shifty enough and then you factor in them not paying real close attention to a machine that could cause serious damage...

It is part of their job to pull people over for those infractions...and if they are on patrol and you don't want them to hit you for that make sure you have a crack dealer with you to distract them with something more important.

[Msterbeau]

You basically just made an assumption there yourself...or are you exempt for some reason? Yeah...those damn crooked pigs always stop when I am walking to the bar to ask me if there is any reason for them to go in like a bar fight or underage drinkers...and one of those bastards even stopped to help us jump my buddies car! THAT FUCKER! I swear that they only issue extra long cables that actually reach to law enforcement people that normally use them to whip innocent people as they walk by...

And Msterbeau...some of it does seem like bullshit but do you know how many people don't give a rats ass about anything on their cars? Shit, its hard enough to get people to change their oil at 6,000 miles even if you only have them pay you in a round at the bar...like they even pay any attention to their lights. I see so many cars with turn signal, plate, and rear/back-up lights out that I am starting to go nuts. Really it is not that hard, expensive, or time consuming to replace one of those lights. As for the tabs how many people do you think let those go? Most everyone I know has theirs ordered well before they need to be replaced. Yes, I am anal when it comes to vehicles but honestly the least people could do is keep things in proper order...some drivers a shifty enough and then you factor in them not paying real close attention to a machine that could cause serious damage...

It is part of their job to pull people over for those infractions...and if they are on patrol and you don't want them to hit you for that make sure you have a crack dealer with you to distract them with something more important.

I'm sorry, but when I keep hearing that the cops don't have time investigate hit and run's on people's parked cars (Car's totaled), break-ins and crimes of that type, I think it's bullshit to be harassing me for a license plat bulb that's burnt out or NG for a license tab a couple days out of date. (And I had no idea it was) The plate is in a high and very visible location on my van. They have better things to do but they're tax collectors now. And I understand that that directive likely comes from their mayor/city council. It still sucks. It's still bullshit It's time for the city to give up on some services in order to meet their budget not treat motorists like rolling piggy banks.

[Hellion]

I'm sorry, but when I keep hearing that the cops don't have time investigate hit and run's on people's parked cars (Car's totaled), break-ins and crimes of that type, I think it's bullshit to be harassing me for a license plat bulb that's burnt out or NG for a license tab a couple days out of date. (And I had no idea it was) The plate is in a high and very visible location on my van. They have better things to do but they're tax collectors now. And I understand that that directive likely comes from their mayor/city council. It still sucks. It's still bullshit It's time for the city to give up on some services in order to meet their budget not treat motorists like rolling piggy banks.

You are so right buddy

and btw Candyman there is a difference between an assumption and a presumption,still amazes me how many crooked cops go around planting

stuff on random people just to make themselves look better,and screw over someone else's life,yes it happens more often than you think.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Hellion

[candyman]

You are so right buddy

and btw Candyman there is a difference between an assumption and a presumption,still amazes me how many crooked cops go around planting

stuff on random people just to make themselves look better,and screw over someone else's life,yes it happens more often than you think.

Yes I do know the difference...so the evidence is? You can presume in a court case but it is still innocent until proven guilty. You know someone that was planted? All it takes it the actions of one or two officers to screw over the whole image. And don't try to paint be as a cop lover because I really do not like them...however being a traditional skinhead I do not stand for total anarchy and still believe that some systems are needed. Dressing the way I do they have all the reason to suspect me of doing something wrong based on either assumptions or presumptions...but they don't...

[Simon Bar Sinister]

sentencing: http://io9.com/5525647/sf-author-peter-watts-gets-a-fine-instead-of-prison-time

[Msterbeau]

sentencing: http://io9.com/5525647/sf-author-peter-watts-gets-a-fine-instead-of-prison-time

In the comments:

"How are we supposed to sleep soundly in our beds knowing that this dangerous offender is free? If we can't stop these Canadian scofflaws at the border, the next thing you know they'll be in our living rooms, politely questioning the orders that we shout at them. This is a black day for lovers of servile obedience everywhere."