Cap and Trade inclusion

[Reaper]

Checked out the link about this www.nachi.org about this inclusion for being able to sell your house.

Link to the origination of this insert: www.nachi.org

Link to the actual bill: H.R. 2454

I haven't followed up on it yet but figured someone here would have the time to see if its true.

"A License required for your house or houses...no longer just for cars and mobile homes...

Thinking about selling your house - A look at H.R. 2454 (Cap and trade bill).

Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Cap and Trade Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act. H.R. 2454, the "Cap & Trade" bill passed by the House of Representatives, if also passed by the Senate, will be the largest tax increase any of us has ever experienced.

The Congressional Budget Office (supposedly non-partisan) estimates that in just a few years the average cost to every family of four will be $6,800 per year. No one is excluded. However, once the lower classes feel the pinch in their wallets, you can be sure these voters get a tax refund (even if they pay no taxes at all) to offset this new cost. Thus, you Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class America will have to pay even more since additional tax dollars will be needed to bail out everyone else.

But wait. This awful bill (that no one in Congress has actually read) has many more surprises in it. Probably the worst one is this: A year from now you won't be able to sell your house. Yes, you read that right. The caveat is (there always is a caveat) that if you have enough money to make required major upgrades to your home, then you can sell it. But, if not, then forget it. Even pre-fabricated homes ("mobile homes") are included. In effect, this bill prevents you from selling your home without the permission of the EPA administrator. To get this permission, you will have to have the energy efficiency of your home measured. Then the government will tell you what your new energy efficiency requirement is and you will be forced to make modifications to your home under the retrofit provisions of this Act to comply with the new energy and water efficiency requirements.

Then you will have to get your home measured again and get a license (called a "label" in the Act) that must be posted on your property to show what your efficiency rating is; sort of like the Energy Star efficiency rating label on your refrigerator or air conditioner. If you don't get a high enough rating, you can't sell. And, the EPA administrator is authorized to raise the standards every year, even above the automatic energy efficiency increases built into the Act. The EPA administrator, appointed by the President, will run the Cap & Trade program (AKA the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009") and is authorized to make any future changes to the regulations and standards he alone determines to be in the government's best interest. Requirements are set low initially so the bill will pass Congress; then the Administrator can set much tougher new standards every year.

The Act itself contains annual required increases in energy efficiency for private and commercial residences and buildings. However, the EPA administrator can set higher standards at any time. Sect. 202 Building Retrofit Program mandates a national retrofit program to increase the energy efficiency of all existing homes across America . Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act. You had better sell soon, because the standards will be raised each year and will be really hard (i.e., ex$pen$ive) to meet in a few years. Oh, goody! The Act allows the government to give you a grant of several thousand dollars to comply with the retrofit program requirements IF you meet certain energy efficiency levels. But, wait, the State can set! additional requirements on who qualifies to receive the grants. You should expect requirements such as "can't have an income of more than $50K per year", "home selling price can't be more than $125K", or anything else to target the upper middle class (and that's YOU) and prevent them from qualifying for the grants. Most of us won't get a dime and will have to pay the entire cost of the retrofit out of our own pockets. More transfer of wealth, more "change you can believe in." Sect. 204 Building Energy Performance Labeling Program establishes a labeling program that for each individual residence will identify the achieved energy efficiency performance for "at least 90 percent of the residential market within 5 years after the date of the enactment of this Act."

This means that within 5 years 90% of all residential homes in the U.S. must be measured and labeled. The EPA administrator will get $50M each year to enforce the labeling program. The Secretary of the Department of Energy will get an additional $20M each year to help enforce the labeling program. Some of this money will, of course, be spent on coming up with tougher standards each year..

Oh, the label will be like a license for your car. You will be required to post the label in a conspicuous location in your home and will not be allowed to sell your home without having this label. And, just like your car license, you will probably be required to get a new label every so often - maybe every year. But, the government estimates the cost of measuring the energy efficiency of your home should only cost about $200 each time. Remember what they said about the auto smog inspections when they first started: that in California it would only cost $15. That was when the program started. Now the cost is about $50 for the inspection and certificate; a 333% increase. Expect the same from the home labeling program. Sect. 304 Greater Energy Efficiency in Building Codes establishes new energy efficiency guidelines for the National Building Code and mand! ates at 304(d) that 1 year after enactment of this Act, all state and local jurisdictions must adopt the National Building Code energy efficiency provisions or must obtain a certification from the federal government that their state and/or local codes have been brought into full compliance with the National Building Code energy efficiency standards."

[AstralCrux]

And they want the housing market to actually rebound? Are they sure? It doesn't seem like they would to me.

[jynxxxedangel]

Head Wreck posting:

Europe is climbing out of the depression because we're cutting ties with America financially. But i fear this will also effect us.

[freydis]

Wow.

Just wow.

People are having enough of an issue selling their homes already.

If this goes into effect, there will be more abandoned (read: bank owned) properties than ever.

[Hellion]

This is what will cause a revolution in no time fascist corporate laws like this what a bunch of bullsh&t!

[torn asunder]

i can see one of a few things happening here...

1) people are just going to walk away from home ownership & rent = dramatic rise in foreclosures.

2) nobody will ever, ever, move again...

3) people will find some creative way around it, like home-swapping, subletting, time-sharing, etc as a way to get around actually selling the home.

based solely on what i've read in this thread (without further research) this bill sucks ass...

[TitsMcGee]

That's why I refer to this bill as "cap and tax"

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Remember when Obama vowed to run the coal industry out of business... this is how he does it. Not only will this Bill add a $6800 tax to every American it will drive up the cost of living significantly. Electricity prices will double in some markets.... which means it will be spread out over all markets. This will affect the cost of manufacturing and producing goods. Which leads to higher prices at the check out. It also means less product... so the doller has less value...

[Msterbeau]

i can see one of a few things happening here...

1) people are just going to walk away from home ownership & rent = dramatic rise in foreclosures.

2) nobody will ever, ever, move again...

3) people will find some creative way around it, like home-swapping, subletting, time-sharing, etc as a way to get around actually selling the home.

based solely on what i've read in this thread (without further research) this bill sucks ass...

Hard to disagree.

How they can expect people to purchase all the capital intensive stuff to make these upgrades happen seems not to occur to the people drafting the legislation. I can see if they allowed for 10 - 15 years for some of this to happen, maybe longer, but FIVE years? That's insanity in this economy. More energy efficiency in homes is not a bad idea. Doing it this way is stupid.

[angry_darkness]

People wanted change and here it is,and then some.

[freydis]

If i ever have insane money when im ready to get a house, I want to go with solar panels.

Makes sense here, with 300 days of sun a year.

[Hellion]

The only good lobbyist is a "DEAD" Lobbyist,f&^cking corporate fascist bs

[jynxxxedangel]

I just don't understand this. I've never heard such a bunch of bullshit nonsense in my entire life (aside from the part of that proposed health care bill, which will fine the most-likely poverty stricken people who don't have health insurance).

Why don't they go after the contractors who are building new homes, rather than the innocent homeowners?! What a great way to rebuild the already-suffering economy.

I'm now THOROUGHLY convinced that most politicians are suffering from advanced cases of cranio-rectal inversion.

This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS, unless the good ol' gov't plans on providing large GRANTS to each and every homeowner, with which to pay for these remodeling projects.

[AstralCrux]

A famed analyst has predicted similar things to what's in this movie which is the first link below, the most notable to me being food shortage. Oil is a temporary resource (in how long it takes to be replenished), and the only thing that can power modern farming machinery; so along with climate change causing drought and flooding there exists the very real matter of food shortage happening eventually in the US.

"The man who predicted the 1987 stock market crash and the fall of the Soviet Union is now forecasting revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years."

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Revolution-food-riots-in-America-by-2012-13062-3-1.html

World food stocks dwindling rapidly, UN warns

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/world/europe/17iht-food.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Quoting because we keep getting closer to this... And I really am starting to think he's right.

[Reaper]

Quoting because we keep getting closer to this... And I really am starting to think he's right.

Yeah I was hearing the same things on the science channel last week. All pointing to bad things to come.

[Rev.Reverence]

Most of us won't get a dime and will have to pay the entire cost of the retrofit out of our own pockets.

Um...I don't off hand know very many peoples making anywhere near $50,000 a year...do I?

...the writer of this article should REALLY look into the numbers of how many lower-class peoples there are vs. how many middle-class peoples there are.

.....but, no one noticed this discrepancy???

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I just don't understand this. I've never heard such a bunch of bullshit nonsense in my entire life (aside from the part of that proposed health care bill, which will fine the most-likely poverty stricken people who don't have health insurance).

Why don't they go after the contractors who are building new homes, rather than the innocent homeowners?! What a great way to rebuild the already-suffering economy.

I'm now THOROUGHLY convinced that most politicians are suffering from advanced cases of cranio-rectal inversion.

This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS, unless the good ol' gov't plans on providing large GRANTS to each and every homeowner, with which to pay for these remodeling projects.

Where exactly do you think those Grants come from?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Um...I don't off hand know very many peoples making anywhere near $50,000 a year...do I?

...the writer of this article should REALLY look into the numbers of how many lower-class peoples there are vs. how many middle-class peoples there are.

.....but, no one noticed this discrepancy???

They have and the majority of Americans make 50-75k

Edited January 10, 2010 by Gaf The Horse With Tears

[Rev.Reverence]

son of a b...

$50,000 to $74,999

18.8%

+/-0.1

20.2%

+/-0.1

21.4%

+/-0.1

None of those numbers look like a 'most of us'...this artical looks like hyper-exaggeration or even straight up propaganda..

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

None of those numbers look like a 'most of us'...this artical looks like hyper-exaggeration or even straight up propaganda..

Thats the Census.

[Rev.Reverence]

Thats the Census.

Ok..I can't read it, I lack the understanding of what each # means there....but, 'most' Americans make how much?...certainly, the middle class is shrunk as hell, all those factory & wharehouse jobs thrown out...

[candyman]

The damn EPA will fudge any numbers it can to make someone happy...for the right price. My family could barely afford all the new "energy efficient" stuff we put on our home these last few years and that even with us installing it and paying nothing but the cost of materials. Add a contractor in there and the price could triple.

Somewhere along the line someone forgot to put a leash on the Clean Air people...and now we are paying for it. I would like my Change back please.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Ok..I can't read it, I lack the understanding of what each # means there....but, 'most' Americans make how much?...certainly, the middle class is shrunk as hell, all those factory & wharehouse jobs thrown out...

The largest population block earns between 50-75k. 18.8%. The next largest block of people is 14.2%. So yes, the majority of Americans make over 50k. Infact, if you add up the blocks from 50K up it adds up to 52.2% of the population.

[AstralCrux]

The median is just the overall average; you see when we add our percentages... Gaf.... According to that same article you linked to 48.1% of households made fewer than 50k. That's the whole household. At some point, we're just going to have to take half the income of the rich to even support the president sneezing. (overstated on purpose) 33.9% made under 35k and I gotta say 35k and I might be in the black on a more regular basis, but if my utilities get any higher in the winter I don't know what I'm going to do beyond turning my house into a commune, so I have enough people living in the house to cover the additional expense of just living.

America is pretty darn impoverished in relation to cost of daily living. I'm not sure how much you make, but I'm just under 30k and it's hard. I'm ahead of the curve for my age in relation to those I've met, but that's because I sacrifice in other areas and I've learned how to cut costs in all my shopping.

[freydis]

You'd be surprised how many technically have incomes over 50k, Rev.

Its just the taxes and health insurance and car insurance and rent and bills that kill most of that.

We looked at our income on paper, and thought "WTF?? Where is it going?"