Cap and Trade inclusion

[Rev.Reverence]

The largest population block earns between 50-75k. 18.8%. The next largest block of people is 14.2%. So yes, the majority of Americans make over 50k. Infact, if you add up the blocks from 50K up it adds up to 52.2% of the population.

...fuck...sometimes, I hate being poor...but other times...it's the easiest way out of a headache.

...STILL...52.2% percent in no way shows me 'most'...'most' is some ole' bull shit...'most' is 2/3, if not, 75%...the way I understand the word 'most'...not a SLIM-SIMPLE-MAJORITY...but, I guess, I know more words than some writers....?

AstralCrux...that's what I'm sayin' too girl!

[freydis]

The median is just the overall average; you see when we add our percentages... Gaf.... According to that same article you linked to 48.1% of households made fewer than 50k. That's the whole household. At some point, we're just going to have to take half the income of the rich to even support the president sneezing. (overstated on purpose) 33.9% made under 35k and I gotta say 35k and I might be in the black on a more regular basis, but if my utilities get any higher in the winter I don't know what I'm going to do beyond turning my house into a commune, so I have enough people living in the house to cover the additional expense of just living.

America is pretty darn impoverished in relation to cost of daily living. I'm not sure how much you make, but I'm just under 30k and it's hard. I'm ahead of the curve for my age in relation to those I've met, but that's because I sacrifice in other areas and I've learned how to cut costs in all my shopping.

Yeah. Cost of living is insane enough that even for two income households, we still end up poor by the time we stop hemmorraging money. :( and if energy costs go up, i am so screwed.

[AstralCrux]

Considering I'm making I think roughly 28k... If I were at 50k in a dual income household it would be entirely doable and I'd get good vacations. But, I'm so used to living on the bottom it's easier to make the adjustment to more money.

Hell, I grocery shop directly from the farmers and I negotiate prices when I buy in bulk and do home canning. I recycle my jars, so I don't have to continuously pay a high cost for the mason jars and I buy used jars from sites like Craigslist. For 2010 I'll be gardening, so I should be able to keep my food costs even lower and those plants will be bought with a negotiated system in bulk because I've already invited a flock of people to group buy with me.

So, I'm game to barter... Anyone know how to build a wind generator for my house? I'll feed ya and pay supply costs.

The hard part is that there are so many just scraping by. With 33.9% of the population making under $35k. What is that third of the population going to pay for all these fun government fees with? Taxes? We're so far in the red, at some point we're doomed to collapse.

[freydis]

if we werent paying on the ch. 13, things would be a lot easier. a real 2 income household would be nice....

[candyman]

Considering I'm making I think roughly 28k... If I were at 50k in a dual income household it would be entirely doable and I'd get good vacations. But, I'm so used to living on the bottom it's easier to make the adjustment to more money.

Hell, I grocery shop directly from the farmers and I negotiate prices when I buy in bulk and do home canning. I recycle my jars, so I don't have to continuously pay a high cost for the mason jars and I buy used jars from sites like Craigslist. For 2010 I'll be gardening, so I should be able to keep my food costs even lower and those plants will be bought with a negotiated system in bulk because I've already invited a flock of people to group buy with me.

So, I'm game to barter... Anyone know how to build a wind generator for my house? I'll feed ya and pay supply costs.

The hard part is that there are so many just scraping by. With 33.9% of the population making under $35k. What is that third of the population going to pay for all these fun government fees with? Taxes? We're so far in the red, at some point we're doomed to collapse.

That is stuff people should do no matter what income they have...but to stay in line with this thread it should in no way be mandated by the government or any other group. Also, most farmers charge huge $ for their products. It was expensive to buy a side of beef before but after the ethanol mandate and the ethanol corn tax in WI a side of beef is out of the question...we still have deer hunting but 2010 just brought in new restrictions for that too.

Oh and I know how to build a wind generator. How big are you looking to go? Power rating/what are you looking to run off of this? Battery system to store the energy? It can get pricey for some parts depending on how you do it too.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

...fuck...sometimes, I hate being poor...but other times...it's the easiest way out of a headache.

...STILL...52.2% percent in no way shows me 'most'...'most' is some ole' bull shit...'most' is 2/3, if not, 75%...the way I understand the word 'most'...not a SLIM-SIMPLE-MAJORITY...but, I guess, I know more words than some writers....?

AstralCrux...that's what I'm sayin' too girl!

I never used the word "most" or the word "median".

by the way... thats not an article. It's Census data.

Astra... I fully understand how averages work. I also know where the poverty line is. Now I am going to use the word "most". Most people live above it. As to your little joke about stealing from the rich to support the poor. It's thinking like that, that is leading this country in the wrong direction, as in toward revolution.

Give a man a fish and he will eat today. Teach a man to fish and he will be fed every day for the rest of his life. Teach him to steal and he will be well fed on his way to the gallows.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Gaf The Horse With Tears

[AstralCrux]

Oh and I know how to build a wind generator. How big are you looking to go? Power rating/what are you looking to run off of this? Battery system to store the energy? It can get pricey for some parts depending on how you do it too.

I'm looking for something that would be able to generally supply a small house with power with a battery backup. I don't use too much energy per month, so I imagine it wouldn't need to be large industrial sized. I don't have to be entirely off the grid, but knocking the electric bill in half wouldn't hurt.

[Scales]

So, I'm game to barter... Anyone know how to build a wind generator for my house? I'll feed ya and pay supply costs.

For larger scale generators there are some issues. I posted a list I've compiled awhile back: http://www.detroitgothic.net/index.php?showtopic=32058

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Another interesting thing on the topic of finance is the US's Cash for Clunkers program was originally a Chinese program, China has been moving away from US currency, and China is in need of steel.

[Reaper]

I make between $55-60k gross a year. But I don't see most of it esp since I bought a house and have a truck payment. So as a middle class taxpayer, I am seeing my money dwindle at the same time. I can't imagine how much worse it is for those who have their own apartment and have to pay all their own bills on a much lower income.

I have actually thought about having a windmill type generator put on top of my house to save on some energy costs. With all the tax write offs that the government is offering to make your house greener, it would be wise to take advantage of purchasing one to save you in the long run.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Reaper

[candyman]

I make between $55-60k gross a year. But I don't see most of it esp since I bought a house and have a truck payment. So as a middle class taxpayer, I am seeing my money dwindle at the same time. I can't imagine how much worse it is for those who have their own apartment and have to pay all their own bills on a much lower income.

I have actually thought about having a windmill type generator put on top of my house to save on some energy costs. With all the tax write offs that the government is offering to make your house greener, it would be wise to take advantage of purchasing one to save you in the long run.

You gotta be careful with those tax write-off's though. I know alot of people including my parents that got fucked over after buying appliances, like water heaters and such, or even stuff like counter-tops and cabinets made from recycled and renewable material. The write-off's were taken away after the inspectors went through and did their checkups. It is hard to understand how a house can pass one year with no problems and then have something fail the next. That stuff is expensive and I would suggest that you get the cash in hand before going out on a limb like that. However, it is not likely that many people will "qualify" because it is apparently easier to match as a kidney donor that it is to qualify for a tax write-off. They say they want this to happen...but they are not making it easy for some reason...probably because they have to spend money.

[Rev.Reverence]

I never used the word "most" or the word "median".

by the way... thats not an article. It's Census data.

Astra... I fully understand how averages work. I also know where the poverty line is. Now I am going to use the word "most". Most people live above it. As to your little joke about stealing from the rich to support the poor. It's thinking like that, that is leading this country in the wrong direction, as in toward revolution.

Give a man a fish and he will eat today. Teach a man to fish and he will be fed every day for the rest of his life. Teach him to steal and he will be well fed on his way to the gallows.

I was NOT arguing your data GAF...I was saying the article, AT THE TOP OF THE THREAD...said CLEARLY, "MOST"...that's bullshit.

..thank you for explaining the census shtuff to me.

...it backs me up, in my assertion that 'most' is the improper word for the situation.

[AstralCrux]

Astra... I fully understand how averages work. I also know where the poverty line is. Now I am going to use the word "most". Most people live above it. As to your little joke about stealing from the rich to support the poor. It's thinking like that, that is leading this country in the wrong direction, as in toward revolution.

Give a man a fish and he will eat today. Teach a man to fish and he will be fed every day for the rest of his life. Teach him to steal and he will be well fed on his way to the gallows.

I'm truly against robbing the rich to pay for the poor. If I make it to the top some day, I don't want someone else taking it from me. (It's a good hope.) But, it is a generally debated item even now. It's a current hot button.

In MN

Its happening in Australia

How 'bout they pay for our troops?

I was trying to find the yahoo news article I just read last week, about this very issue.

What's going to lead us to revolution: when the poor start starving, when too many go homeless, and when it seems like noone really gives a damn about those that go without. Revolutions are messy and hurt hard in the short term, but tend to help in the long term, if the right changes get made.