Honor

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

After some recent covnersations I have been wondering... Is personal honor a worthy trait? Or is it really a dated concept as some younger people have been talling me.

[phee]

After some recent covnersations I have been wondering... Is personal honor a worthy trait? Or is it really a dated concept as some younger people have been talling me.

It really depends on what definition you are using... honor is one of those things like love.... it can have several different meanings to a lot of different people...

What do you mean when you say honor?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well, I'd like to stick with the common usage which is as follows...

hon or [on-er]

noun

1.honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Gaf The Horse With Tears

[creatureofthenyte]

Yes.

If young people are saying things like that, then that shows you how they were raised.

Honor would make the world a better place if more people had it.

[phee]

The thing is that even by that definition, one persons fairness is so different then another persons.... Integrity in ones beliefs can also lead to a lot of things that are undesirable....

I have noticed that a lot of people I consider honorable others don't, and vice versa.

[n0Mad]

"Here's to honor, getting honor, keeping honor,

and if you can't come in her, come on her."

[candyman]

It depends on the situation. I won't go into huge detail but there are certain cases where its just not worth is after a while. I mean if your "honor" is not what someone else had in mind then the shit really hits the fan. I think it would be nice if "honor" were a more common thing...but we live in the real world and I don't see that happening very soon. Also, who is to say that others before us had more "honor" than we do now? We have completely different standards than they did before.

[phee]

It depends on the situation. I won't go into huge detail but there are certain cases where its just not worth is after a while. I mean if your "honor" is not what someone else had in mind then the shit really hits the fan. I think it would be nice if "honor" were a more common thing...but we live in the real world and I don't see that happening very soon. Also, who is to say that others before us had more "honor" than we do now? We have completely different standards than they did before.

This is defenitly true... A lot of people think that suicide bombers are dying with honor....

[candyman]

This is defenitly true... A lot of people think that suicide bombers are dying with honor....

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of what I call the "clash of honors". You know when two people defend their honor or something like that and its turns into a mess...sometimes even a fight? Sometimes I think that the people with the most "honor" have actually got the most ego...its just that the words and definitions have been switched. There are MANY things besides honor to focus on...and if you do focus on your "honor" I would start to think that the ego thing is coming into play. These are things for others to judge.

[phee]

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of what I call the "clash of honors". You know when two people defend their honor or something like that and its turns into a mess...sometimes even a fight? Sometimes I think that the people with the most "honor" have actually got the most ego...its just that the words and definitions have been switched. There are MANY things besides honor to focus on...and if you do focus on your "honor" I would start to think that the ego thing is coming into play. These are things for others to judge.

Another good post

[TygerLili]

There are 24 different definitions of honor when I look it up, so, yeah, I agree with Phee, it's a pretty abstract term at best.

Gaf-as for your definition, I, myself, would define that as personal integrity, rather than personal honor. I value personal integrity, as do, I believe, many young people today, but again, what's fair and just varies from one person's opinion to the next.

[phee]

There are 24 different definitions of honor when I look it up, so, yeah, I agree with Phee, it's a pretty abstract term at best.

Gaf-as for your definition, I, myself, would define that as personal integrity, rather than personal honor. I value personal integrity, as do, I believe, many young people today, but again, what's fair and just varies from one person's opinion to the next.

Good points miss

[AstralCrux]

I usually aim for "honorable choices" that harm none and are good for all.

[phee]

I usually aim for "honorable choices" that harm none and are good for all.

Is there such a thing?

[creatureofthenyte]

Okay, so thank you to Tygerlilli for steering this post in the right direction...

Perhaps the thread should have been called "Personal Integrity; does it really matter anymore ? "

To which I would say, yes it sure does.

[phee]

Okay, so thank you to Tygerlilli for steering this post in the right direction...

Perhaps the thread should have been called "Personal Integrity; does it really matter anymore ? "

To which I would say, yes it sure does.

It does to me.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Integrity? Really? If ever there was a word more subjective than honor it's integrity. All that really means is you react to simular situations in a simular way according to what ever beliefs you follow.

A person that always lies, steals and cheats has personal integrity.

Wow.

[phee]

Yes... honor and integrity are two separate concepts

[Hellion]

Honor is something that most of society in America lacks these days,Honor is something that needs to make a comeback.

[torn asunder]

Honor is something that most of society in America lacks these days,Honor is something that needs to make a comeback.

even selfish bastards who are only out for themselves are honoring their own personal belief that they're the most important thing in the world... personal honor in no way indicates altruism.

i believe that "altruism" should be one of the main goals towards which people strive. working towards the betterment of all with the best intentions one can have. one can't control the outcome of one's actions, so one must strive to control *intent*.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

I don't think it'll ever die out, but it's certainly not at a premium these days. :(

[phee]

Yeah... the reason I asked about a definition about what people saw as honor themselves is the fact that even with the definition provided by Gaf, it is very open to interpretation.

A man can go and kill another man's family because he thinks that man damaged his families honor, and is trying to honor his own family.

A man can kill another man for the money in his pocket because he has to honor a debt to another person.

A secret can be kept far to long to honor a person's confidence... and this secret can kill (for example someone has AIDS and a good friend knows it and promised not to tell anyone, and sees his friend leading a sexually loose life style, there was an honor involved in the trust to keep that secret but it is causing pain.)

I have noticed that honor and revenge seem to be very closely related.

People have done terrible things in order to honor an agreement, their God, or their government.

Personal honor? That is a lot like personal beliefs.... I can personally believe its okay to shoot you in the head to defend my wifes personal honor, but having them both does not make the act of killing right.

Etc....

[Slogo]

Well in Japan it's sometime honorable to kill yourself after doing something wrong. Over here we look at that as a crime.

I believe in my own honor, however there will be things that supercede it (love, compassion, humility etc...). I believe that honor will always be alive. It's the different ideas that people have about honor that screw it up.

If an incredibly attractive married woman is walking down the street in Riyadh dressed in daisy dukes and a bikini top she will be executed by her husband. If a similar woman is walking down the street in Royal Oak she may be glorified by her husband. Both men are honorable in their own way. (Just one of those ways is insane in my opinion).

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yeah... the reason I asked about a definition about what people saw as honor themselves is the fact that even with the definition provided by Gaf, it is very open to interpretation.

A man can go and kill another man's family because he thinks that man damaged his families honor, and is trying to honor his own family.

A man can kill another man for the money in his pocket because he has to honor a debt to another person.

A secret can be kept far to long to honor a person's confidence... and this secret can kill (for example someone has AIDS and a good friend knows it and promised not to tell anyone, and sees his friend leading a sexually loose life style, there was an honor involved in the trust to keep that secret but it is causing pain.)

I have noticed that honor and revenge seem to be very closely related.

People have done terrible things in order to honor an agreement, their God, or their government.

Personal honor? That is a lot like personal beliefs.... I can personally believe its okay to shoot you in the head to defend my wifes personal honor, but having them both does not make the act of killing right.

Etc....

As long as people only focus on the negative side of the coin....

Or pull a Clinton and focus on the definition of "is"...

Honor will never have the value it should have...

If honor still meant something you could still trust a man's word and a hand shake would be as good as a written contract.

[Homicidalheathen]

No it is not dated...

I have been having this same conversation with someone. I want to move out west...but promised someone on their death bed I would take care of someone as she ages and she can't/won't move.

How wrong would that be to break a death bed promise? I have to honor it.

But I get people saying oh let it go...

If you remove yourself from the situation you don't owe anyone anything...

Personally think breaking death bed promises leads to baaad charma.

I just want to add most of the people that seem to think its ok for me to break my honorable death bed vow are over 30.

Other than family members most of the people that tell me to chuck it are older, the younger ones understand....maybe it has something to do with selfish bitterness that comes with age.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Homicidalheathen