Gothic Republicans and/or Conservatives

[Destroit]

I was skimming through old posts in the S&S forum and ran across an slight tiff between Gaf and some old poster who does not come on here anymore named Rozzalyn. This Rozzalyn chick was soooo ignorant that she insisted that if you are republican/conservative than you have NO place in the scene because the gothic scene is suited for liberals only. She also tried to put out several arguments to support why she was right, all of which made absolutely no sense to anyone except her own bigoted opinion and could not lay down any logic or sound reason as to why they could not exist. She was so heavily brainwashed by her own ignorance and blinded by her need to "have her team be right" (as I call that syndrome, I also refer to it as Tron Syndrome - red guy vs. blue guy...for what? To see who can win first? To compare dicks? REALLY? What is the point?) that she basically bitched out Gaf, making herself sound quite the fool in the process, for leaning to the right. She also made as very good example of the fact that she is actually very uneducated about the scene itself and yet acted as if she were an expert.

BUT...as ridiculous as this girl's argument was I find it funny that it seems to surface itself time and time again. Liberals, who are supposed to be MORE "open-minded" than conservatives tend to shut me out simply for not agreeing with their opinion. They will base their arguments on personal agendas rather than logic and "here's what's functional compared to dysfunctional". And SADLY I've seen many a goth go along with this sentiment state that "someone cannot be goth if they are not liberal".

I ask the people of DGN this as I've tried to figure it out for YEARS...WTF is SO goth about being liberal? I mean, it's also from my understanding that it's republicans that do badass dark things like encourage wars, tell people to nut up or shut up, and shit out rifles...you think THAT would get a huge dark-rivethead following compared to liberals' view of everyone holding hands, hugging, sharing, handing out free shit that isn't theirs, and singing cum-ba-ya around a campfire eating from their 100% human friendly and earth-friendly dinnerware. Alas, it has proven to usually be the opposite.

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks on this and why it has come to be that way? Can goths be right-wing and still be goth in your eyes? Why or why not?

Edited March 9, 2010 by Chernobyl

[torn asunder]

all i have to say about this at this point is that there's a big difference between being personally liberal/conservative, and politically liberal/conservative.

[Destroit]

all i have to say about this at this point is that there's a big difference between being personally liberal/conservative, and politically liberal/conservative.

Elaborate moar, plz.

[Rev.Reverence]

I see Torn's point...it was my own...

Ok...

Personal axis:Prep/Alt

Political axis:Rep/Dem

..clearer?

...I know..it was very post-modernist...but, it is how I work in the brain sometimes...

[torn asunder]

Elaborate moar, plz.

well, a kind of poor example might be that i'm cool with gay/bisexual lifestyles, but have no interest in participating in a gay relationship. i support gay marriage, but would never do it. socially liberal, personally conservative.

[Destroit]

all i have to say about this at this point is that there's a big difference between being personally liberal/conservative, and politically liberal/conservative.

Oh you mean the types of people who live one way but say that they support the other political party even though it doesn't represent their views. Usually these types of people are raised to believe they have to be that way, sometimes in this modern age, I find "political stance" just as harmful and as able to be instilled into weak-minds as most forms of dogmatic religion.

Like people being either liberal or conservative and having no idea why and backs it up with, as I put, Tron Syndrome. Red guy vs. blue guy without even knowing WHY just knowing that you're supposed to blindly cheer for "blue guy" regardless of what blue guy does or doesn't do.

[Rev.Reverence]

Oh you mean the types of people who live one way but say that they support the other political party even though it doesn't represent their views. Usually these types of people are raised to believe they have to be that way, sometimes in this modern age, I find "political stance" just as harmful and as able to be instilled into weak-minds as most forms of dogmatic religion.

Like people being either liberal or conservative and having no idea why and backs it up with, as I put, Tron Syndrome. Red guy vs. blue guy without even knowing WHY just knowing that you're supposed to blindly cheer for "blue guy" regardless of what blue guy does or doesn't do.

EXACTLY!.."political stance"...is not hereditary...

..nor, are religions...anymore...

I believe in you Cherny...

..though, I am a staunch member of "The Radical Center"...A.K.A. THE GREY PARTY...

[Msterbeau]

well, a kind of poor example might be that i'm cool with gay/bisexual lifestyles, but have no interest in participating in a gay relationship. i support gay marriage, but would never do it. socially liberal, personally conservative.

Being straight doesn't make you conservative.

[Nate Kriepp]

I'll suggest that there's been a merging of nazi asethetics into the goth 'scene' a la Laibach, Death in June, etc. Assuming that a lot of folks (goth or otherwise) don't know the difference between playing Nazi dressup (something I seem to do a lot of, so I'm not knocking it. Hey, the bad guys were snazzy dressers!) and actually reading Mein Kampf and highlighting their favorite passages, I'll say that the goth world can harbor all kinds of contradictory political viewpoints.

As a side note, Laibach once responded to a question about their politics and were they nazis. The answer was "We're nazis like Hitler was a painter."

[Msterbeau]

Like people being either liberal or conservative and having no idea why and backs it up with, as I put, Tron Syndrome. Red guy vs. blue guy without even knowing WHY just knowing that you're supposed to blindly cheer for "blue guy" regardless of what blue guy does or doesn't do.

Which is why we should abolish parties and vote for individuals. People would have to read and think about each candidate! Oh noes! (It would probably mean barely anyone would vote because they wouldn't feel like spending the time to do the research.)

[torn asunder]

Oh you mean the types of people who live one way but say that they support the other political party even though it doesn't represent their views. Usually these types of people are raised to believe they have to be that way, sometimes in this modern age, I find "political stance" just as harmful and as able to be instilled into weak-minds as most forms of dogmatic religion.

Like people being either liberal or conservative and having no idea why and backs it up with, as I put, Tron Syndrome. Red guy vs. blue guy without even knowing WHY just knowing that you're supposed to blindly cheer for "blue guy" regardless of what blue guy does or doesn't do.

not really talking about the people who are "well, my daddy was a republican, my granddaddy was republican, so i'm republican"; i guess i'm saying that while many people live exactly what they believe re: liberal vs. conservative, there are also a lot of people who can be more open-minded regarding others than there personal views would indicate.

a lot of the problem with the "tron" people is that many don't take the time to research things - it's just a lot easier to "vote democrat" than to study the issues & make an informed decision. people really are lazy (at times, myself included). generalizations can work sometimes, for example, if i haven't had time to research something, i know that, in general, i'm more liberal in my views, so i will look towards some of the third parties when voting, and will likely avoid most conservative options. (i prefer not to vote, if i'm uneducated on a topic).

[Rev.Reverence]

Which is why we should abolish parties and vote for individuals. People would have to read and think about each candidate! Oh noes! (It would probably mean barely anyone would vote because they wouldn't feel like spending the time to do the research.)

...imagine the smell of ALL the peoples thinking....

[Simon Bar Sinister]

on topic: sure, why not?

[torn asunder]

Being straight doesn't make you conservative.

quite true, and i prove that myself, but on the subject of gay marriage, conservatives are against, liberals are for it, in general. it was just an example...

[Msterbeau]

quite true, and i prove that myself, but on the subject of gay marriage, conservatives are against, liberals are for it, in general. it was just an example...

In general, yes. But there are conservative gays, and I bet they still want the right to marry or at least have the legal rights that married people have. I'll stop hijacking now...

[torn asunder]

In general, yes. But there are conservative gays, and I bet they still want the right to marry or at least have the legal rights that married people have. I'll stop hijacking now...

well of course there are - there are exceptions to every generalization. i'm surprised i still have to explicitly express that...

[the_fairy_gothmother]

yeah just another way to classify and identify ourselves with others. I guess I would like to think of myself more of a individual. Believe it or not I am a christian. People are like whoa a Goth being christian? Why not? Just personal beliefs I have. Does being a born again make me republican no it dont. I guess in a way I dont even really care. Not like I vote often. I only do if a friend is going and asks me to go in. I dont really have faith in the leadership of our country, state or world. They are all morons to me with lofty ideas that they can never get to work or just make huge mistakes costing people their jobs, homes and livelihoods and more taxes. I rather just be sort of a anarchist and go against the system and the grain. Even in religion I dont really stick true to all beliefs. Theres grey areas and theres things that dont apply anymore. Fact is also I am not perfect and never will be. My faith serves a purpose of being and looking forward to something better after this life. It also gives me some morals and character to be a nicer person and help others. You dont have to be a christian to have those characteristics just in my faith those are things that we are heavily encouraged to do and aside from naturally being caring, honest and nice they just back up the reasons. I just wont judge others or try forcing my views on them. We all got a free will and can do what we want and well forcing your beliefs on others will just piss them off and will forcing them to change really change them? We have learned in the past trying to force our beliefs on others and even now that it only leads to fighting, wars, death and destruction. So I rather just be myself and share my views with like minded or interested people. If we dont share same views you have a choice to either dislike me and disassociate yourself from me or share other things in common and talk to me about other things. If you respect me for who I am I respect you.

[Soulrev]

The funny thing is how people say "I'm goth, I don't 'conform' to society" yet, they'll proudly announce how liberal they claim to be and blah blah blah. For people who tend to stay away from mainstream, I sure know a lot of goths who jumped on the biggest mainstream liberal Obama boat I've ever seen.

Yeah, I'm not a goth, if u were to classify me as anything I'd be closest to a rivithead. I'm not down with crying and tree hugging shit either. I like war and military. Don't care if you don't.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Cher.. you have so pegged my thoughts on those arguments.

but more on point...

I have never found anything about being "goth" tied to any political state of mind. To me, goth is more a life style... a way of expressing whats inside that words just don't suffice for.

and I do think it can be heraditary... to an extent... I will never forget the day my grandmother and I were talking.. and she said "Oh my God!!! I'm one of those freaky Goths!!! I have been my whole life and never knew a word for it." Come on, she had black velvet furniture, black and orangeish carpet and never let direct sunlight into her house.

[TitsMcGee]

Cher.. you have so pegged my thoughts on those arguments.

but more on point...

I have never found anything about being "goth" tied to any political state of mind. To me, goth is more a life style... a way of expressing whats inside that words just don't suffice for.

and I do think it can be heraditary... to an extent... I will never forget the day my grandmother and I were talking.. and she said "Oh my God!!! I'm one of those freaky Goths!!! I have been my whole life and never knew a word for it." Come on, she had black velvet furniture, black and orangeish carpet and never let direct sunlight into her house.

Where do I get a grandmother like yours?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Where do I get a grandmother like yours?

Evart

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Where do I get a grandmother like yours?

Evart

[candyman]

Sticking a subculture, and its people, into a political scene is pretty much just like saying that goths have to dress a certian way, act a certain way, and listen to a specific type of music.

I know a group of self-proclaimed democratic punks that want more government control and all types of government help...yet they wear the anarchy symbol on all their jackets...FAIL! I will use punk as an example here. People didn't like what was going on in politics, music scene, etc...so they started their own shit...actually that was the skinhead movement but people don't understand what that is...punk actually went VERY political here in the states. Goth should be the same way...you are YOU! I hear people on here bitch about people stereotyping goths...and then they go on and stereotype Republicans, Democrats, and so on and so forth. If you don't want anymore stereotyping then saying that there is no such thing as a Republican goth is pretty stupid...unless your point is that goths are neither Republican nor Democrat.

[Nightgaunt]

You're not a real goth unless you're Bull Moose party all the way.

[Slogo]

You're not a real goth unless you're Bull Moose party all the way.

TR kicked so much ass