Gothic Republicans and/or Conservatives

[Rev.Reverence]

[TygerLili]

What's best for me is not necessarily what's best for everyone else. I think a whole lot of people, liberal, conservative, and everywhere in between have trouble understanding that. It applies to more than just political views, too.

One of my biggest pet peeves is that, because my views on certain things are kind of conservative, a lot of people assume that I am a Christian, which I absolutely am not. It irks me that most people assume that if you're kind of conservative, then you must be religious.

[Slogo]

I don't think there is any set way for anyone to believe. Even my views can be in a pretty wide range despite what most would see on here. I have my beliefs and nobody here hates me for my beliefs (i think) and I don't hate anyone for theirs. As President William McKinley once said "Our differences are in politics. Our similarities are in principles". I think everyone has a right to their beliefs, although I may dislike the way a debate can be framed by conservatives (as the way some liberals do). As long as everyone is civil I see no problem with their beliefs.

[the eternal]

It's late and I'm tired.

Simply put, I completely agree with Chernobyl here.

There is no more correlation with Gothic tendencies and liberalism as there is with conservatism.

To say that you can't be both a Republican and a Goth is as ridiculous as when people said

(during George W's time in office), that "It takes a Democrat to lick Bush."

That offended me.

Licking Bush should not have been a partisan issue.

It's the kind of cause that should make EVERY American want to roll up their sleeves and dive right into.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I think political correctness is causing some confusion of reality. It takes courage to entertain the idea that "yes there IS truth to a stereotype." it takes no courage to tow the social compact. Just asserting something doesn't make it true (or untrue) But anyhow... Things are so tightly interconnected that an attempt to separate them can be difficult and perhaps impossible. An argument can be made that everything is all "one" and the idea of "separate" is an illusion...but i digress from my own digression...

Since no one can actually agree on what "Being Gothic" actually means, we are going to fail epicly at trying to draw any conclusions about what is and isn't comparable between conservatism and gothy stuff. Then throw on top of that peoples on personal PREFERENCE blinds them horribly to reality. If for instance i WANTED people that are Gothic to be of a certain political persuasion, that wouldn't change if they are or not. Also if i WANT people to be "totally free of political implication" that are in the Gothic subculture, that also would not change reality. But, it obviously does change opinions, due to this flaw in reasoning.

BUT just for the sake of discussion - The idea that perhaps "being Gothic" is in some sort of by-definition opposition with "being conservative":

Lets take this idea at face value and try to play devils advocate for a moment. The idea would be something like, goth-ism (Lolz) is based in "underground/alternative values" (loosely liberal) which are (in this view) in if not direct opposition, at least very awkward to reconcile with mainstream traditional value ideology (conservatism). Thus, the "underground" ideology and the "traditional conservative" ideologies would be, if this where true, incompatible. Why would anyone think this? Spending more than 10 minutes in and around the associated groups should answer that one. Not to say its true, its just important to try and give ideas solid vetting before we dismiss them out of hand to be sure we are not fooling ourselves.

Then theres the vagaries of what actually constitutes a conservative , not quite as vague in the public mind as what "gothic" would actually mean, but still it means very different things to different people.

For example to echo what torn was getting at (just as ONE problem with definitions of this sort) "... difference between being personally liberal/conservative, and politically liberal/conservative"

Right (no pun) off the bat the problem is that "right" and "left" (and even center) are too cartoonish and don't allow for enough variation.

From an internal "ideological" (beliefs/ideas about what we like, not necessarily what is best for others or society) standpoint I we might be liberal. But from an outward "what is good for society" (sometimes called "political") standpoint many of us would be conservative leaning.

A good example is someone that is personally anti-abortion , in that they think it is not the right thing to do, but they are pro-choice in that they think that there should be no law against it.

Me:

Card-Carrying believer in free-market economic forces. (with the associated dislike of regulation.) (Conservative)

Staunch advocate of very strict separation of church and state (Liberal)

Viva La slutty outfits and self-directed ethics. (Liberal)

Bias against most welfare type programs. (Conservative)

I like black clothes and black lipstick. (Gothic)

I prefer Wagner over . (Insta-ban from DGN!)

I am not a huge fan of horror movies. (Heretic!!)

I prefer Meatwad & MC Pee Pants over Frylock (I should /gquit IRL)

So am I liberal , or conservative? Gothic? If i am 'somewhat conservative' then i cant, be definition be Gothic? Sweet! (lolz again)

So pretty much if "Gothic" means "Liberal" I fail. If it means "conservative" I fail. About the only thing about Gothic that i can come up with that I'd say is probably universally understood to be associated with "goth" is a dark/macabre aesthetic which fits neither group. Now is it true that If we took a poll , I'm guessing your average not-on-DGN conservative is more likely to look down upon the Gothic subculture than your average not-on-DGN liberal? Yeah probably. But that does not make even slight claim that you cant be both Gothic and conservative.

[machine]

I find this thread relevant to my interests...

[freydis]

It's late and I'm tired.

Simply put, I completely agree with Chernobyl here.

There is no more correlation with Gothic tendencies and liberalism as there is with conservatism.

To say that you can't be both a Republican and a Goth is as ridiculous as when people said

(during George W's time in office), that "It takes a Democrat to lick Bush."

That offended me.

Licking Bush should not have been a partisan issue.

It's the kind of cause that should make EVERY American want to roll up their sleeves and dive right into.

Somehow, I just *know* those comments weren't just about voting a president out of office....

But on point, I don't think Goth automatically defines what one's political views should be. Just as religion doesn't define mine. A large proportion of Asatru are Republicans and conservatives. I don't much like either party, and support a lot of issues that conservatives don't.

Can I call myself simply a free-thinker? I think most who self identify as Goth would also count as free thinkers, no matter what political party they identify with.

[Raev]

I iz a conservative rivet head.

I am a member of a political party.

[candyman]

Can I call myself simply a free-thinker? I think most who self identify as Goth would also count as free thinkers, no matter what political party they identify with.

NO! Then we you disagree with someone on an issue they can't resort to childish stereotyping!