Obama's Nationality

[Nightgaunt]

I never paid a whole lot of attention to the whole Obama birth certificate question. It just sounded to me like bitter Republicans grasping at straws and I thought that the birth certificate had indeed been produced. Anyone know what the hell Michelle Obama is talking about in this clip? Is it taken out of context? I'm genuinely confused here...

[candyman]

...I thought this was a secret or something right? Maybe she is just trying to start a fire again...or got confused on where he was actually born and defaulted to Kenya...

Well at least we know that our president can run fast! (something tells me that might be in bad taste...but oh well)

[Simon Bar Sinister]

I'm genuinely confused here...

let me help: he's American.

just like me - I've decribed myself as Mexican at times even though I was born and raised here.

[Rev.Reverence]

let me help: he's American.

just like me - I've decribed myself as Mexican at times even though I was born and raised here.

Yup...were I to sojourn to the British Isle, or even India (Celt, & Romani come from there) it would be a journy to my roots...to the 'motherland' if you will...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I never paid a whole lot of attention to the whole Obama birth certificate question. It just sounded to me like bitter Republicans grasping at straws and I thought that the birth certificate had indeed been produced. Anyone know what the hell Michelle Obama is talking about in this clip? Is it taken out of context? I'm genuinely confused here...

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Kk3OMRqO7aY

I don't know. I do know this, his birth certificate has never been made public. Infact, many records about Obama are sealed.

[Nightgaunt]

let me help: he's American.

just like me - I've decribed myself as Mexican at times even though I was born and raised here.

I get what you're saying, but do you refer to your "home country" as Mexico? I understand that he changed his name at some point, something having to do with getting dual citizenship in Indonesia or something, but I thought that his birthplace had been confirmed as having been in Hawaii. The words she chose to use, "his home country in Kenya," really indicates that that's where he's from. However, she said, "in Kenya," and not, "of Kenya", so who knows? It's a small difference, but it could change the meaning. She would have been better off saying, "his ancestral home," or something to that effect. The hard-core conspiracy proponents seem to be having a field day with this one.

[StormKnight (1)]

A lot of my records are sealed as well, birth certificate included.

In my birth state, there is a copy of my birth certificate with my biological parents name on it, as required by record keeping and sealed in state records. I can't access it without court order *and* justification for knowing (genetic disease and the like.) The birth certificate I have (official copy,) lists my adoptive parents names, as well as the official ethnicity (the only link I have to who my biological parents are.) I can only suspect there is a sealed file for everyone's official certificate in the state.

So not accessing the sealed certificate isn't something surprising to me, even if it is for federal clearance. Chances are there are quite a few of us with sealed records somewhere that aren't accessible to us.

Now, I am different the the gist of this thread in that that most of my genetics/homing sense is towards Hawaii, and my ethnicity is required to be listed on my copy of my birth certificate (funny since both adoptive parents are Caucasian.) So even what I would consider home has been part of the US since 1959.

[phee]

A lot of my records are sealed as well, birth certificate included.

In my birth state, there is a copy of my birth certificate with my biological parents name on it, as required by record keeping and sealed in state records. I can't access it without court order *and* justification for knowing (genetic disease and the like.) The birth certificate I have (official copy,) lists my adoptive parents names, as well as the official ethnicity (the only link I have to who my biological parents are.) I can only suspect there is a sealed file for everyone's official certificate in the state.

So not accessing the sealed certificate isn't something surprising to me, even if it is for federal clearance. Chances are there are quite a few of us with sealed records somewhere that aren't accessible to us.

Now, I am different the the gist of this thread in that that most of my genetics/homing sense is towards Hawaii, and my ethnicity is required to be listed on my copy of my birth certificate (funny since both adoptive parents are Caucasian.) So even what I would consider home has been part of the US since 1959.

I know a few people with their records sealed as well... and now I assume they are all secretly from Kenya

[candyman]

Huh...so since my adoptive records are sealed I could be from Kenya too? DAMN! I could have gotten a discount on college this whole time and didn't know it... ...damn paperwork!

[phee]

Huh...so since my adoptive records are sealed I could be from Kenya too? DAMN! I could have gotten a discount on college this whole time and didn't know it... ...damn paperwork!

*thinks about changing your user name to kenyaman*

[candyman]

*thinks about changing your user name to kenyaman*

Well upon hearing my real name without seeing me many people already think that I am black...so whatever...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

A lot of my records are sealed as well, birth certificate included.

In my birth state, there is a copy of my birth certificate with my biological parents name on it, as required by record keeping and sealed in state records. I can't access it without court order *and* justification for knowing (genetic disease and the like.) The birth certificate I have (official copy,) lists my adoptive parents names, as well as the official ethnicity (the only link I have to who my biological parents are.) I can only suspect there is a sealed file for everyone's official certificate in the state.

So not accessing the sealed certificate isn't something surprising to me, even if it is for federal clearance. Chances are there are quite a few of us with sealed records somewhere that aren't accessible to us.

Now, I am different the the gist of this thread in that that most of my genetics/homing sense is towards Hawaii, and my ethnicity is required to be listed on my copy of my birth certificate (funny since both adoptive parents are Caucasian.) So even what I would consider home has been part of the US since 1959.

Are you President? Are you required by the Constitution, that trumps all other laws of the land, to prove you are a natural born citizen?

Also, his records are not sealed by some Federal law. Hawaii's governor ordered them sealed when Obama's place of birth was called into question and has made it clear it will not be unsealed unless Obama asks for it to be. Obama has refused to let anyone see it. Why not just settle this mess and shut the birthers up? What is so damn important to keep secret?

What has been shown is a Certificate of Live Birth, which is not the same thing as a birth certificate.

Just search for the name "Barry Saetoro". It's interesting to me that Obama got all his student funds with that name.

[torn asunder]

Are you President? Are you required by the Constitution, that trumps all other laws of the land, to prove you are a natural born citizen?

Also, his records are not sealed by some Federal law. Hawaii's governor ordered them sealed when Obama's place of birth was called into question and has made it clear it will not be unsealed unless Obama asks for it to be. Obama has refused to let anyone see it. Why not just settle this mess and shut the birthers up? What is so damn important to keep secret?

What has been shown is a Certificate of Live Birth, which is not the same thing as a birth certificate.

Just search for the name "Barry Saetoro". It's interesting to me that Obama got all his student funds with that name.

hey, gaf? since i really don't know (and i'm sure a lot of other people don't either) can you explain the difference between a cert. of live birth, and a birth cert.? seems to be that they're the same!?

also, it's my understanding that the records weren't sealed originally, but that it was done because there were so many people requesting copies through the freedom of information act, that the (records) office was overloaded. the idea was to limit non-official requests so as to unburden it. (as i said, that's my understanding of it, can't say for sure...)

Edited April 8, 2010 by torn asunder

[StormKnight (1)]

Are you President? Are you required by the Constitution, that trumps all other laws of the land, to prove you are a natural born citizen?

No.

But since there is no constitutional mandate to keep Federal level birth certificates/certificates of live birth, I don't know if this passed on to the states via the 10th Amendment to keep these records.

So unless his birth certificate/certificate of live birth crossed from one nation to another, where it would be subject to federal law, if memory serves, then the state of Hawaii is within its powers of the 10th Amendment to say "by state law, all original documents regarding birth in the state are sealed."

So the thought process is that if it didn't cross US borders, (where it might be subject to immigration service inspection,) then the sealed records originated in Hawaii.

So the question from me is: Does the 10th Amendment allow states to make laws that keep these records sealed, or are there implied powers by the Constitution otherwise?

Since I am not a constitutional scholar, I will confess a lack of knowledge on this.

Edited April 8, 2010 by StormKnight

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

hey, gaf? since i really don't know (and i'm sure a lot of other people don't either) can you explain the difference between a cert. of live birth, and a birth cert.? seems to be that they're the same!?

also, it's my understanding that the records weren't sealed originally, but that it was done because there were so many people requesting copies through the freedom of information act, that the (records) office was overloaded. the idea was to limit non-official requests so as to unburden it. (as i said, that's my understanding of it, can't say for sure...)

A Birth Certificate is certified as authentic with a seal and signitures of the doctor, the parent(s) and witnesses. A Certificate of Live Brithg is a piece of paper with words on it.

BTW: I am not a birther. It wouldn't surprise me that much if it turned out to be tru, but I am not a birther. I do think he should show his Birth Certificate and answer a legitimate Constitutional challenge.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

No.

But since there is no constitutional mandate to keep Federal level birth certificates/certificates of live birth, I don't know if this passed on to the states via the 10th Amendment to keep these records.

So unless his birth certificate/certificate of live birth crossed from one nation to another, where it would be subject to federal law, if memory serves, then the state of Hawaii is within its powers of the 10th Amendment to say "by state law, all original documents regarding birth in the state are sealed."

So the thought process is that if it didn't cross US borders, (where it might be subject to immigration service inspection,) then the sealed records originated in Hawaii.

So the question from me is: Does the 10th Amendment allow states to make laws that keep these records sealed, or are there implied powers by the Constitution otherwise?

Since I am not a constitutional scholar, I will confess a lack of knowledge on this.

Odd, without knowing you were doing it.. You made a great case against the Health mandate.

[StormKnight (1)]

Odd, without knowing you were doing it.. You made a great case against the Health mandate.

Perhaps. But I promised myself a "wait and see" mindset to see what each side has/does what, as I could be seen having vested interest either for or against it. So I don't discuss it here. I would request that be respected.

But I was more directing this towards 10th Amendment or implied federal powers regarding State's regulation/laws concerning birth certificate/certificate of live birth. Are there federal laws that override the state for surrender of the original documents, or does States' Rights win out and allow the states to make laws against the release of sealed original documents, only releasing prima facie copies?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I can respect that.

To try to answer the question though... Federal laws always trump state laws and the Constitution trumps everything. Obama legally, Constitutionally, needs to show proof that he is a Natural Born US Citizen to be President. I'm not sure that the Feds can force the state of Hawaii to show the Birth Certificate... but the courts can force Obama to release it. Except his first act as President was to issue a Presidential order to seal all documents related to him.

[Nightgaunt]

Does every President have to produce a birth certificate? I would imagine so, given the restrictions on who can become President. If that is the case, how was Obama able to ignore the requirement?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Does every President have to produce a birth certificate? I would imagine so, given the restrictions on who can become President. If that is the case, how was Obama able to ignore the requirement?

If memory serves, when the question came up... Sen. Reid made a public statement to the affect of... "Obama allowed leading members of Congress to see proof that he was born in the USA." The problem people have is those leading members of Congress were all Democrats who supported Obama.

[taysteewonderbunny]

It just seems crazy, though, to have to release the original document to a mob demanding it. It would seem the department would have some authority regarding its responsibility for its safekeeping. I know that even when I ask for MY birth certificate, I am only given a facsimile then embossed with a raised seal; the state keeps the original for safekeeping so that verifiable facsimiles can be later produced from it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It just seems crazy, though, to have to release the original document to a mob demanding it. It would seem the department would have some authority regarding its responsibility for its safekeeping. I know that even when I ask for MY birth certificate, I am only given a facsimile then embossed with a raised seal; the state keeps the original for safekeeping so that verifiable facsimiles can be later produced from it.

No one is asking for the original document... they want to see legal copy of it.

[creatureofthenyte]

It just seems crazy, though, to have to release the original document to a mob demanding it.

A mob demanding it; Lol, so the American people are a mob? that's funny.

What if Obama was a Republican?

I bet if Obama was a Republican, Democrats would breathe holy hellfire demanding to see it.

If Obama Is an American citizen, born here, then why was sealing all documents related to him, his First act as president???

If Obama Is an American citizen, born here, then why isn't a copy of his birth certificate plastered all over the media???

Why isn't CNBC doing a story on it, saying See he told ya so! ?

I think, by sealing those documents, that is giving credence to those who are questioning his nationality.

I think , he's got something to hide; if not, then why seal them?

Has Any other president ever done that ???

[phee]

I bet if Obama was a Republican, Democrats would breathe holy hellfire demanding to see it.

I don't think they would... from what I have observed the Dems faults (as numerous as they are) do not include Xenophobia at least at the moment... that seems to be more in the Rep war chest.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't think they would... from what I have observed the Dems faults (as numerous as they are) do not include Xenophobia at least at the moment... that seems to be more in the Rep war chest.

Xenophobia? Really? I assume this is some kind of joke.

1. Do you really think having a non-citizen run your country would be a good idea?

2. History. It's a wonderful thing. It was the Democrats that opposed freeing the slaves. It was the Democrats that opposed giving Blacks the Right to vote. It was the Democrats that opposed Women's Sufferage. It was the Democrats that fought against Desegration and the Cival Rights movement.