Foes of tea party movement to infiltrate rallies

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I really don' think it matters what any of us think about what harm or good the Tea party movement is doing... They have the Right to Assemble, to Protest... to speak thier minds... They are doing thier best to sway the path Congress and the President are taking... What is really wrong with that? That the Republicans are trying thier best to capitalize on it? So what? Really, until November, we have no idea what affect they ahve had on each other.. if any. We may all be pissing int he wind... or we may elect people to Congress thatlisten to the People.

On another note... people are bitching about signs and slogans at Tea party protests... some of those same people were all for the Protests by liberals in the Bush years... applauded Bush depecited as Hitler and burned in effigy... Why was that ok?

[phee]

This is true... The Liberals who were doing this are not any better....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

This is true... The Liberals who were doing this are not any better....

I really don't want to poor through all the old posts... but you say that NOW.. but you had something very differetn to say Then. You defended them.. agreed with them.

[phee]

Just because I agree with something does not mean I agree with their methods.

[Reaper]

I am all for what the Tea Party stands for, but not for the people who represent it. I think the coffee party is succeeding in discrediting the Tea Party. I also think that the Republicans trying to act like they are a friend to the Tea Party is fucking shit up too. Republicans should remain Republican as well as Democrats remaining Democratic. I tend to think of my ideals as just right of center. I like to see ideas from both left and right to be implemented. I didn't like what was going on when Bush was president, and certainly don't like the direction of this president either. I just don't like politicians in general because they may talk about being all for the american people, but once they get a taste of that political power, they only think for themselves. Example of this is passing the health care bill that they would not ever go on themselves, or even read. Lets just pass a bill that we wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole so we could say we did something. If I want my money to go to help people without healthcare, I will donate it as I always have.

[phee]

I am all for what the Tea Party stands for, but not for the people who represent it. I think the coffee party is succeeding in discrediting the Tea Party. I also think that the Republicans trying to act like they are a friend to the Tea Party is fucking shit up too. Republicans should remain Republican as well as Democrats remaining Democratic. I tend to think of my ideals as just right of center. I like to see ideas from both left and right to be implemented. I didn't like what was going on when Bush was president, and certainly don't like the direction of this president either. I just don't like politicians in general because they may talk about being all for the american people, but once they get a taste of that political power, they only think for themselves. Example of this is passing the health care bill that they would not ever go on themselves, or even read. Lets just pass a bill that we wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole so we could say we did something. If I want my money to go to help people without healthcare, I will donate it as I always have.

A very intelligent post sir... *bows*

[Msterbeau]

On another note... people are bitching about signs and slogans at Tea party protests... some of those same people were all for the Protests by liberals in the Bush years... applauded Bush depecited as Hitler and burned in effigy... Why was that ok?

Because it isn't racist or bigoted.. merely more extreme than necessary to get the point across. It's targeted at an individual or a few individuals for their ACTIONS, not at a vast group of people that can't change what they are.

[Hellion]

Nothing against anyone here but judging someone on their ignorant actions,( directed at unfit politicians) is not racist or bigoted.actions speak words.

some of the issues I agree with and some I don't agree with.

I agree with what Reaper and Marc posted,as well as some others on here

carry on.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Hellion

[phee]

Because it isn't racist or bigoted.. merely more extreme than necessary to get the point across. It's targeted at an individual or a few individuals for their ACTIONS, not at a vast group of people that can't change what they are.

I agree as inappropriate as they might be there is a HUGE difference between criticizing someone for there actions (BUSH = HITLER) And making criticizing someone for their race like a lot of the images of fried chicken and monkeys and stuff they were throwing about.

[taysteewonderbunny]

I agree as inappropriate as they might be there is a HUGE difference between criticizing someone for there actions (BUSH = HITLER) And making criticizing someone for their race like a lot of the images of fried chicken and monkeys and stuff they were throwing about.

I don't think it's right in either case. If I'm not mistaken, the Hitler analogy came up in response to the health care reform, even as proposed during election. The only true analogy to Hitler, in my book, is to Hitler.

Far too often, far, FAR too often, I hear rhetoric about this thing being fascist, that thing being socialist, all of it intending to evoke the worst case scenario, the hyperbolic extremes (e.g. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao) without anyone really considering what the terms themselves mean or taking the time to define them, but, worst of all, NEVER EVEN DEBATING THE ISSUES. It all makes me sick.

I told my mother to keep her anti-Bush rhetoric to herself on many occasion, my friend Robert, the same. Not because I liked George W. Bush, but because this emotionally driven drivel gets us nowhere but crazy FAST; I'm tired of it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I agree as inappropriate as they might be there is a HUGE difference between criticizing someone for there actions (BUSH = HITLER) And making criticizing someone for their race like a lot of the images of fried chicken and monkeys and stuff they were throwing about.

Relativism. nice.

Tasty, Godwin's law is mere fallacy when over used. Valid comparisons do not invoke it. I can honestly say both cases (Bush and Obama) could be compared to Hitler in some aspects. With Bush it was the way he always got what he wanted and perhaps the way he got it. It gave the appearance to some that we lived in a Totalitarian regime. With Obama it's his policy's and stated goals. They tend to mirror the things that Hitler did, in the same order.

[torn asunder]

you know what i'd love to see, that would throw the political world into upheaval and maybe finally bring about some change?

outlaw both the democrats and republicans. anyone who is currently in office and registered as one or the other of these, (or who had previously served as either) would be out, unelectable, and the people would get to vote for the candidate of their choice from any other party, or an independent, based on whom they felt aligned the best with their views. right now, people are afraid to vote for anyone else, for fear of "throwing their vote away".

of course i know it would never happen. it is, however, what i'd *like* to see...

[candyman]

Because it isn't racist or bigoted.. merely more extreme than necessary to get the point across. It's targeted at an individual or a few individuals for their ACTIONS, not at a vast group of people that can't change what they are.

Acting like a little shit is still acting like a little shit no matter what the situation...saying that since there is no racism or sexism present does not make it right. Fuck, are we supposed to teach our kids this sit? Sit you child on your knee and say "Its ok to hate as long as its a white male and especially if they are rich no matter how the earned that money". Yeah, these political protesters have to come to terms with the fact that if you act a certain way then you can't bitch out someone else for acting the same way. Its like all the stupid "political" bands out there today that claim to be against government...yet they clearly define which side they are on since they only "rage" against one side.

[phee]

Relativism. nice.

If one set of criticisms is clearly racially driven and the other is not can be called relativism then yes I suppose it is... I guess I was looking at it as racist vs not racist.

[taysteewonderbunny]

Relativism. nice.

Tasty, Godwin's law is mere fallacy when over used. Valid comparisons do not invoke it.

No, I think you misunderstand the fallacy of ad hominem. Calling anyone "Hitler" is emotionally evocative in a way that precludes intelligent discourse.

[Nightgaunt]

No, I think you misunderstand the fallacy of ad hominem. Calling anyone "Hitler" is emotionally evocative in a way that precludes intelligent discourse.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

No, I think you misunderstand the fallacy of ad hominem. Calling anyone "Hitler" is emotionally evocative in a way that precludes intelligent discourse.

Really? So, if someone exactly mirrors Hitler in words and deeds.. and is rising in power... comparing them to Hitler is off limits? Just let history repeat itself? Learn nothing from the past? Remember, Hitler wasn't killing Jews until a few years after he came to power.

BTW, comparing someone's actions and words to Hitler is nothe same thing as calling them Hitler.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Gaf The Horse With Tears

[phee]

Really? So, if someone exactly mirrors Hitler in words and deeds.. and is rising in power... comparing them to Hitler is off limits? Just let history repeat itself? Learn nothing from the past? Remember, Hitler wasn't killing Jews until a few years after he came to power.

BTW, comparing someone's actions and words to Hitler is nothe same thing as calling them Hitler.

I think I see your point here.... but the problem with using that comparison now is that it so over used that it means very little... if you put 10 politicians in a row and looked at their actions, almost all of them by some extremist person standards would be called Hitler or Hitler like, which means that the comparison is meaningless even if one of them actually turns out to be Hitler like.

Comparing someone to Hitler is a way to create emotional noise by todays standards... accurate or not, the message will not get through... I mean I am called a Fascist almost every other day just from being a moderator... it seems to have lost its meaning.

[Slogo]

I think this thread reminds me of hitler

[Destroit]

Eternal... you are using so much misinformation. I see what your tactic is though, throw so much information at us that we can't possibly respond to all of it. I'm just going to respond to some main points...

Freedom Works and Gingrich got involded in the Tea partys months after the Tea party protesters were holding rallies.

The idea of a flat tax is a Libertarian idea that existed way before the Tea party. Not a republican idea.

Socoial Security is broken and needs reformed. The Democrats and Republicans in Congress have been ignoring this problem for years. It's getting worse. This year, years before it was predicted to happen, SS started collecting LESS than it pays out.

Smart Tort Reform to control lawsuits against doctors and hospitals to control costs. The largest operation cost for Doctors and Hospital is malpractive insurance. The average family practice pays $200,000 toward insurance premiums every year. That cost is transfered to Patients as it is. Why are you so opposed to doing something that would actually lower the cost of health care?

School Choice is working everywhere it's been implimented. My kids are good examples. School Choice allows my kids to go to an A rated school rather than a D rated.

Push for pro-growth regulatory and trade policy changes because if we don't grow our economy will collapse. It's called economics.

Welfare Reform to get people back to work so that they can take care of themselves rather than liing thier whole life living off the system rather than using the system in times of real need.

There were no "tea bagging" signs or jokes are any of the rallys until Rachel Maddow and the hacks at MSNBC spent day after day making tea bagging jokes. That was a term used against us that some decided to embrace rather than give power to by fighting it.

Yes, we know about the 2% tax cut. We also know about Obama's $1trillion in new taxes that get passed on to consumers.

in closing.. It's called Protesting. I know it freaks you out that someone other than left wing activists are protesting... learn to deal with it. It's our Right and we are finally choosing to take advantage of that Right. We tried just writing letters to our congress people and getting ignored. WE are going to keep standing up and shouting until we get listened to.

BTW.. I have to ask... How can you as a proud Jewish man support Obama witht he way he is treating Isreal?

Sorry, I ran out of smilies indicating how much you make SENSE. Those five will have to do...I DID also plus one your post. I've been doing that a lot actually, so you're welcome.

Sorry, I ran out of smilies indicating how much you make SENSE. Those five will have to do...I DID also plus one your post. I've been doing that a lot actually, so you're welcome.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

umm, yeah...here in Michigan, we enacted tort reform well over a decade ago. Remember the $250k limit imposed on malpractice lawsuit payouts? That's exactly what tort reform is. Show of hands - have any DGNers' health insurance rates gone down?

They did this in Texas, as well - and it's been a complete and utter sham there, too.

[taysteewonderbunny]

Really? So, if someone exactly mirrors Hitler in words and deeds.. and is rising in power... comparing them to Hitler is off limits? Just let history repeat itself? Learn nothing from the past? Remember, Hitler wasn't killing Jews until a few years after he came to power.

BTW, comparing someone's actions and words to Hitler is nothe same thing as calling them Hitler.

So you are saying that you think Obama campaigned on a message of hate and that he plans on the genocide of the "white race" to further his secret desire that African Americans one day rule the world? He wrote "The Audacity of Hope," not "Mein Kampf."

Look, a man can be a vegetarian, favor strong central government, have a Jew in their family tree, have excellent fashion sense, be a failed painter, be elected to a position of power, want his country to prosper, and not be Hitler. If you have a disagreement with an idea, argue against the idea. Don't throw around names and labels willy-nilly and claim to have argued the point.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

umm, yeah...here in Michigan, we enacted tort reform well over a decade ago. Remember the $250k limit imposed on malpractice lawsuit payouts? That's exactly what tort reform is. Show of hands - have any DGNers' health insurance rates gone down?

They did this in Texas, as well - and it's been a complete and utter sham there, too.

and it will be until the are Federal limits on them. Those state laws only affect cases in State level courts... Federal courts have no limits.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So you are saying that you think Obama campaigned on a message of hate and that he plans on the genocide of the "white race" to further his secret desire that African Americans one day rule the world? He wrote "The Audacity of Hope," not "Mein Kampf."

Look, a man can be a vegetarian, favor strong central government, have a Jew in their family tree, have excellent fashion sense, be a failed painter, be elected to a position of power, want his country to prosper, and not be Hitler. If you have a disagreement with an idea, argue against the idea. Don't throw around names and labels willy-nilly and claim to have argued the point.

I think you need to read up more on Hitler. One of his first acts was healthcare reform. Lets not forget all his promises of economic "fairness".

[taysteewonderbunny]

I think you need to read up more on Hitler. One of his first acts was healthcare reform. Lets not forget all his promises of economic "fairness".

I think you are not understanding what I'm saying. Obama and Hitler can have that in common without Obama becoming Hitler in all the ways that are evoked when people call Obama, "Hitler." Health care reform and economic reform do NOT equal future plans of genocide.