countdown to no-smoking thread

[Rev.Reverence]

you're kidding, right?

what do you base this on?

Personal-scientific-mutha'-fuckin'-evidence, SIR...

I have been on probation (for possession), & in my MANY YEARS as a High Priest in a Coven of the mixed Christian/Pagan WAY... have given much counsel to the saddened hearts of many Brethren that were also so disposed...

YOU KNOW WHAT?

Probation officers test you for shit, like at least monthly...& I didn't fail any of my tests...HMMM...I MAY JUST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

As an Experienced Veteran, I had to stop smoking...& when you quit, well, no one around you does, so, I was exposed {plenty}...& I had to get tested...well, guess what, I passed, & with "Heavy Exposure"...yeah, less than locking yourself in a walk-in-closet, whilst a WHOLE BLUNT is passed isn't going to register; your point, is kinda' mute, scientifically speaking, as it were...& any of my Coven-Brethren Will back me.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

another day closer, bwahahahahahaha...

[Rev.Reverence]

So just because someone who has been regularly partaking of substances and likely have built a tolerance doesnt get a contact buzz, then its a myth?

Folks who dont partake could also be rather substance and chemical sensitive.

Runs in my family.

Last time my ma tried to stain the wood fence, her eyelids swelled shut.

UM.....paint fumes fuck me up EVERYTIME...pot, meh, it takes the edge off...

Edited April 27, 2010 by Rev.Reverence

[Rev.Reverence]

So just because someone who has been regularly partaking of substances and likely have built a tolerance doesnt get a contact buzz, then its a myth?

Folks who dont partake could also be rather substance and chemical sensitive.

Runs in my family.

Last time my ma tried to stain the wood fence, her eyelids swelled shut.

Ok...when one has been sober for over a month, their tolerance, like, goes away...it's like, 'reset'...

[Rev.Reverence]

MODS:

If'in I got a bit hard: oOps, I'm a Goat, &, at least, I had the presence of mind to do it in as many posts as I had thoughts...delete what your fuhrer instructs you to, I understand your submissive positions

[candyman]

look, i was only pointing out how you were contradicting yourself, saying people shouldn't act like dicks, yet talking about acting like one. the supposed "explanations" you gave just come across as justification for rude behavior.

as for drunk people behaving badly, well, that goes without saying, they're drunk. i admit, though, that the following statement didn't register properly with me, so i misinterpreted your post;

although i still don't condone it, i can see where you're coming from, blowing smoke at people who are insulting you in such a way.

still, i think the more mature thing to do is either ignore them, or laugh at them. but that's just me.

I just see it as an eye for an eye here. Now I could have been contradicting myself however I will not take any more action against someone other than blowing smoke or a horrible verbal beatdown. The justification is not really there because I will not take action in a bar fight unless it starts to pull in the innocent bystanders. I just give a warning to anyone that decides to tease a smoker that the drunk one WILL get into your face and will probably go ape shit on you...if it happens you share blame in the painful results.

I just want to see an anti-smoker come into some of the biker bars I attend and start talking. Even a small comment about how "nice" the air is could get them into trouble. Wait a minute? Who the hell is going to go into a biker bar even after a smoking ban besides bikers that smoke and bikers that don't care about the smoke? Oh yeah...nobody...

[torn asunder]

Personal-scientific-mutha'-fuckin'-evidence, SIR...

I have been on probation (for possession), & in my MANY YEARS as a High Priest in a Coven of the mixed Christian/Pagan WAY... have given much counsel to the saddened hearts of many Brethren that were also so disposed...

YOU KNOW WHAT?

Probation officers test you for shit, like at least monthly...& I didn't fail any of my tests...HMMM...I MAY JUST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

As an Experienced Veteran, I had to stop smoking...& when you quit, well, no one around you does, so, I was exposed {plenty}...& I had to get tested...well, guess what, I passed, & with "Heavy Exposure"...yeah, less than locking yourself in a walk-in-closet, whilst a WHOLE BLUNT is passed isn't going to register; your point, is kinda' mute, scientifically speaking, as it were...& any of my Coven-Brethren Will back me.

so, what was the cutoff level they used in your test? 15 ng/ml, 20 ng/ml, 50 ng/ml, 100 ng/ml? do you know? just because you didn't fail a test, doesn't mean it wasn't in your system. passive intake of pot may not increase your levels enough to register on a test, but for a previously unexposed person, it can (and does) still have an effect. you can't state difinitively that there was no thc detected in your system - you simply can't. all you can honestly say is that the level in your system from indirect exposure was less than the cutoff limit of the test. considering your long-term use of the drug, it's likely that you wouldn't notice the effects of a smaller amount like that, but in no way does that mean it wasn't there.

2nd point - in my opinion, testing once a month is almost completely ineffective, especially at the recommended level of 50 ng/ml. how long had you been clean (meaning, not directly smoking) when they set you up for testing? i'm willing to bet your first test was after a month, so they could be sure your previous use was clear of your system (unless they took some baseline tests to see/watch the levels drop, or something). even with chronic or daily use, the range of detection can vary from 7-30 days depending on the amount smoked, individual body metabolism rates, and the previously mentioned cutoff point of the test. you've said before (a while back, in other threads) that you have a fast metabolism. this alone could drastically cut down the amount of time it stayed in your system, making the tests even less effective.

Toxicologist Paul Cary presents a comprehensive overview of recent research in The Marijuana Detection Window [Drug Court Review, Vol 5(1)]. Cary reviews several studies documenting detection windows greater than 30 days, and finds significant confounds or limitations to design in each of them. He concludes:

"Recent scientific literature indicates that it is uncommon for occasional marijuana smokers to test positive for cannabinoids in urine for longer than seven days using standard cutoff concentrations. Following smoking cessation, chronic smokers would not be expected to remain positive for longer than 21 days, even when using the 20 ng/mL cannabinoid cutoff. While longer detection times have been documented in research studies, these prolonged elimination findings represent uncommon occurrences and should not be used as exculpatory evidence in the majority of case adjudications." (pp. 23-4)

[torn asunder]

Wait a minute? Who the hell is going to go into a biker bar even after a smoking ban besides bikers that smoke and bikers that don't care about the smoke? Oh yeah...nobody...

except me!

[freydis]

Personal-scientific-mutha'-fuckin'-evidence, SIR...

I have been on probation (for possession), & in my MANY YEARS as a High Priest in a Coven of the mixed Christian/Pagan WAY... have given much counsel to the saddened hearts of many Brethren that were also so disposed...

YOU KNOW WHAT?

Probation officers test you for shit, like at least monthly...& I didn't fail any of my tests...HMMM...I MAY JUST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

As an Experienced Veteran, I had to stop smoking...& when you quit, well, no one around you does, so, I was exposed {plenty}...& I had to get tested...well, guess what, I passed, & with "Heavy Exposure"...yeah, less than locking yourself in a walk-in-closet, whilst a WHOLE BLUNT is passed isn't going to register; your point, is kinda' mute, scientifically speaking, as it were...& any of my Coven-Brethren Will back me.

Just because you dont have enough in your system to piss test for it doesnt mean you had no reaction whatsoever.

[candyman]

In keeping with the ridiculousness of the ban I would like to speak up on behalf of all the people with ALLERGIES!

Yeah I am a smoker that has been tested many times and have been told that I am allergic to cigarette smoke...no idea how that works out. Anyways, do any of you have ANY idea about the number of things you wear or use in public that can adversely affect those of us with allergies? My seasonal allergies have toned down alot with the shot that I receive...but when people walk into a room and they are wearing cologne or perfume that I can smell from a foot away my sinuses and my eyes react like I am in the middle of a fucking pollen storm. Sure after I get outside in the fresh air I clear up, after about an hour, but it still sucks.

Some of you probably like to have fresh flowers in the house or raise some plants...the effects of pollen on allergy sufferers almost triples in an enclosed area even with HVAC systems. And what about candles? Or how about propellant driven cleaners or scents?

All of these things are used in someones house because it is their way...it is my choice to stay or leave and I do not impose my wants on the owner of the house. I know my allergies and the reactions and I keep the proper medical devices on hand just in case. There are places I can go and places that I can't go...I accept that. Even though my occasionally stuffed up head would LOVE to control the use of the substances that cause the grief I would not feel any more joyful...I would be taking away things that make others joyful. Sad is the day when you get enough control of your world that you may go anywhere without suffering some sort of discomfort...discomfort is part of this world and if you feel none it is because it has been passed off onto others. Yes choices should be had but NOT at the expense of other no matter how small their group may be.

Edited April 27, 2010 by candyman

[freydis]

In keeping with the ridiculousness of the ban I would like to speak up on behalf of all the people with ALLERGIES!

Yeah I am a smoker that has been tested many times and have been told that I am allergic to cigarette smoke...no idea how that works out. Anyways, do any of you have ANY idea about the number of things you wear or use in public that can adversely affect those of us with allergies? My seasonal allergies have toned down alot with the shot that I receive...but when people walk into a room and they are wearing cologne or perfume that I can smell from a foot away my sinuses and my eyes react like I am in the middle of a fucking pollen storm. Sure after I get outside in the fresh air I clear up, after about an hour, but it still sucks.

Some of you probably like to have fresh flowers in the house or raise some plants...the effects of pollen on allergy sufferers almost triples in an enclosed area even with HVAC systems. And what about candles? Or how about propellant driven cleaners or scents?

All of these things are used in someones house because it is their way...it is my choice to stay or leave and I do not impose my wants on the owner of the house. I know my allergies and the reactions and I keep the proper medical devices on hand just in case. There are places I can go and places that I can't go...I accept that. Even though my occasionally stuffed up head would LOVE to control the use of the substances that cause the grief I would not feel any more joyful...I would be taking away things that make others joyful. Sad is the day when you get enough control of your world that you may go anywhere without suffering some sort of discomfort...discomfort is part of this world and if you feel none it is because it has been passed of onto others. Yes choices should be had but NOT at the expense of other no matter how small their group may be.

...that comparison is of things people do in their home vs something thats being banned in a public building. Does not equate.

Personally? I think when people wear obnoxiously strong cologne to work, its a bit rude. Theyre subjecting people to something obnoxious in a setting where they cant easily get away from it. And at my place of business, there's *one* individual in a building of many hundreds who is very allergic to pointsettias, and there was a building wide memo that they werent permitted in the building over christmas. In an environment where theres many others, people should be mindful of others.

I dont think the ban is as effective (or makes as much sense) for bars. I do think it makes sense for other buildings, including *anywhere* that serves food.

[Hellion]

All I have to say is if I cannot take my drink with me when I do have a smoke I will assault( bust someone's face up) if I catch someone tampering with my drink,(spiking)well they might have to ban radon which is by far much worse.still waiting for the ban on freedom of speech that I will fight, ain't no one taking my voice away!!!

I'll be quitting smokes within 2 months,anyway.but if they do what they do in California,no smoking on your porch,sidawalk,etc etc,we are in for a crappy future ahead.btw I also don't smoke around non smokers anyway.,if you respect me I respect you,nough said,carry on.

[prick]

so, what was the cutoff level they used in your test? 15 ng/ml, 20 ng/ml, 50 ng/ml, 100 ng/ml? do you know? just because you didn't fail a test, doesn't mean it wasn't in your system. passive intake of pot may not increase your levels enough to register on a test, but for a previously unexposed person, it can (and does) still have an effect. you can't state difinitively that there was no thc detected in your system - you simply can't. all you can honestly say is that the level in your system from indirect exposure was less than the cutoff limit of the test. considering your long-term use of the drug, it's likely that you wouldn't notice the effects of a smaller amount like that, but in no way does that mean it wasn't there.

2nd point - in my opinion, testing once a month is almost completely ineffective, especially at the recommended level of 50 ng/ml. how long had you been clean (meaning, not directly smoking) when they set you up for testing? i'm willing to bet your first test was after a month, so they could be sure your previous use was clear of your system (unless they took some baseline tests to see/watch the levels drop, or something). even with chronic or daily use, the range of detection can vary from 7-30 days depending on the amount smoked, individual body metabolism rates, and the previously mentioned cutoff point of the test. you've said before (a while back, in other threads) that you have a fast metabolism. this alone could drastically cut down the amount of time it stayed in your system, making the tests even less effective.

Golden seal does wonders too!

[TheGimp]

Personal-scientific-mutha'-fuckin'-evidence, SIR...

I have been on probation (for possession), & in my MANY YEARS as a High Priest in a Coven of the mixed Christian/Pagan WAY... have given much counsel to the saddened hearts of many Brethren that were also so disposed...

YOU KNOW WHAT?

Probation officers test you for shit, like at least monthly...& I didn't fail any of my tests...HMMM...I MAY JUST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

As an Experienced Veteran, I had to stop smoking...& when you quit, well, no one around you does, so, I was exposed {plenty}...& I had to get tested...well, guess what, I passed, & with "Heavy Exposure"...yeah, less than locking yourself in a walk-in-closet, whilst a WHOLE BLUNT is passed isn't going to register; your point, is kinda' mute, scientifically speaking, as it were...& any of my Coven-Brethren Will back me.

this is all very true exposer to the shit dosent do a damn thing...when i was 18 my uncle needed help testing the Downriver area cuz his partner didnt show up..and he gave me the run down on how to do it..and explained that a lot of the guys might say they were just around it and they didnt actually smoke...and the ones that did fail tryed sayin that then later on changed there story and said they did indeed smoke

[KatRN05]

I always... ALWAYS shower when I get home from CC... Cause I hate waking up and smelling my pillows...

I do the same thing. I feel really gross when I leave CC.

[Darkmatter]

I'll be absent from CC for awhile until they get something in place for us smokers. I'll be going to Assemblage and Covenant but that's about it. I'll just hit the parties around here until CC figures out what they are going to do. This is bullshit!3

[the_fairy_gothmother]

I do agree with chernobyl about it being a 2 way street having a fair respect. I myself am a non smoker. I live in a house where everyone smokes but myself. Its difficult and I used to bitch and moan all the time but I gave up and as much as it angers me seeing my family waste their money which they dont have to pay bills and their health away I cannot force them to quit. I choose to stay away from it. Its not my home so I cant make them stop. As for the state ban. Well I guess I dont care either way because I dont smoke. I dont care if people smoke or not.I do however agree venues and clubs should allow people to return to the club without charge not just for smoking but any reason. I dont see the point in doing that. But yeah I feel bad for the people who smoke in a way because its such a addiction and habit that obviously is difficult to rid of and some people are really proud of smoking and enjoy it very much. There are many things people can be addicted to or habits people cannot stop. Not just drugs alcohol or sex but video gaming, computer gaming, tv porn lol and even exercise can become a destructive habit to some who are obsessed and do it so much it takes over their lives and destroys relationships and they become so self absorbed and vain about their looks. I guess the only thing we can do is either obey the law and not have any hassles or try fighting it and rebelling. If I were a smoker I dont want to risk being fined its money I cant afford and a fight I would for sure lose and not get around. I wouldnt wanna rebel or protest it because I enjoy keeping my criminal record spot free and keeping keeping my money for things I need or want.

[bean]

I work in a field where I deal with people who get mandatory referrals for failing drug tests, and I've gone to several seminars on the topic.

Drug tests can detect marijuana in the system from second-hand exposure, BUT the person who analyzes the test can tell the difference between second-hand exposure and if the person being tested actually smoked it. It doesn't matter if you were locked in a closet with 10 people, each smoking their own joint. You would not be considered to have failed a drug test if you were tested the next day in such a situation, unless you smoked, then well, you would fail the drug test.

[Destroit]

i'm not even going to engage in a discussion that hitler's brought into. it's ridiculous.

If it's a valid point, then why not? If it is a valid example, it should be included in a conversation. Why should a conversation including Hitler be censored? I'm having trouble understanding this.

yes, it *directly* harms an individual non-smoker. *that* is wrong. i don't consider people damaging themselves as wrong either, but smoking does harm others.

This was taken out of context. If there was appropriate accommodations as I had explained, non-smokers would never be around a cigarette again. Therefore, only smokers would be exposed. This point is invalid in context to what I had said.

1) i agree that other, better accomodations could be made. 2) i disagree that smokers weren't given a voice, unless i'm missing something (and i might be, i'll admit). was there no debate on this law? was it passed in the dead of the night, with nobody around, snuck in with another bill? i may be making an incorrect assumption, but i figured this had been debated. i'm open to being educated if i'm wrong!

No citizens were asked if they would like this law passed to the best of my knowledge. It's a Granholm law as far as I know. And by "Granholm Law" I mean a law passed in Michigan based on the governor's personal agenda and who is lining her pockets the most.

blanket "they" statements suck. so does the attitude that revenge is fun/worthwhile. for that matter, so is the assumption that the people against whom you're acting out deserve it. are you going to ask people if they supported this law before blowing smoke in their face? if you don't, you're being just as inconsiderate and rude as you seem to think all smokers are.

I disagree about revenge. If someone fucks you over you should fuck them over back tenfold. If you don't then that person will never learn that they're an asshole and continue to fuck you over again and again. Like the bitch that broke into my house and was supposedly a friend of ours but the entire thing turned out to be a setup. My revenge towards her is a prison sentence. I mean...people that are horrible people that fuck over other people intentionally...we're just supposed to sit there and take it without fighting back or seeking justice against them? I can't stand by that, it does not make sense to me.

But with your last two sentences, I reconsider my position about blowing smoke at non-smokers. Since there would be no way to tell who is one of the selfish non-smokers and who is a non-smoker that simply doesn't care one way or another aside from explicitly asking, you're right, it wouldn't be fair of me. I guess I can give them the evil eye...?

[Joey Deadcat]

Looks like that's it for my CC days ('course, I'll still be heading out to shows and events at other venues;will just have to tough it out ).

[Nightgaunt]

Thank you for being one of the only people I know wise enough to realize this BULLSHIT ban is NOT about being smoke-free or healthy. It's about control and money. Period.

And all these non-smokers are going to say "it's not my problem" or "I'm glad" until the govt finds some bullshit reason to ban what THEY like. I love how almost all Americans seem to think it's okay for the government to enforce liberties and freedoms restrictions on other groups of people but the SECOND it happens to THEM...THAT is when they get mad.

If one of us is wronged by our government, every American citizen is equally wronged by our government. We need to actually start realizing this again as a collective community.

+1000

Everyone is going to be up in arms when all this new Internet legislation passes, screaming about how unfair it is, and no one will understand that because they allowed "small" things like the smoking ban to pass, it set a precedent for bigger and nastier restrictions on freedom. The smoking ban is about control, and to a lesser extent raising revenue, though it's presented as a public health issue. This is the same reasoning that has been used in New York and other places to justify taxes on "unhealthy" food.

All the mean-spirited dancing around and childish mocking of smokers by the militant anti-smokers (case in point: SpammerovtheGods) is, I think, due in part to people in our society unsuccessfully coping with a feeling of powerlessness in their lives. Everyone feels vaguely uneasy about the degree of control government has over us, even if they don't necessarily understand why they feel that way. With a smoking ban, the anti-tobacco crowd feels like they're on the "winning team". They get to look down their collective nose at another group of people and feel powerful. They meekly knuckle under to the thousand little things that do affect them instead of standing up for themselves. It angers them when they see smokers protesting that which they see as unfair.

Totalitarian regimes always present freedom-limiting measures as being "for the public good" or "for the children". This is just another step in the incremental march toward government sticking its nose into every aspect of your life. If the State of Michigan was really interested in protecting the health of its citizens, they wouldn't be putting fluoride in our drinking water (look up the MSDS for sodium fluoride sometime), allowing phthalates in the plastics we use, or dihydrogen monoxide in our food. If the issue were to be left up to the bar owners, you'd see an explosion of smoke free establishments opening up, especially if tax incentives were put in place.

Is smoking bad for you? YES. Is secondhand smoke bad for you? Probably; the jury is still out as to just how bad. What we have to decide is how long we're going to tolerate the tax, fine, and spend behavior of our state government. How long will it be 'til Michigan decides to start taxing pop, salt, and trans fats like other states and municipalities have? All I ask is that you think a little about these things before you start in with the "nyah nyah nyah, you dirty smokers" thing.

[Destroit]

...that comparison is of things people do in their home vs something thats being banned in a public building. Does not equate.

Personally? I think when people wear obnoxiously strong cologne to work, its a bit rude. Theyre subjecting people to something obnoxious in a setting where they cant easily get away from it. And at my place of business, there's *one* individual in a building of many hundreds who is very allergic to pointsettias, and there was a building wide memo that they werent permitted in the building over christmas. In an environment where theres many others, people should be mindful of others.

I dont think the ban is as effective (or makes as much sense) for bars. I do think it makes sense for other buildings, including *anywhere* that serves food.

There are states that have a ban on smoking in your own home or vehicle, even with the windows rolled up. Michigan is well on its way to that. So...justifications on this? Anyone? I should hope not because there isn't any .

There are states that have a ban on smoking in your own home or vehicle, even with the windows rolled up. Michigan is well on its way to that. So...justifications on this? Anyone? I should hope not because there isn't any .

[torn asunder]

or dihydrogen monoxide in our food.

you've *got* to be kidding me...

you pretty much just shot the credibility of your entire argument in the ass. do you even know what "dihydrogen monoxide" is?

h20 - it's freaking *water*! you're complaining about *water* in our food?

i might be able to take your other arguments a bit more seriously if i thought you'd actually researched anything, but the fact that you bought the "dihydrogen monoxide" paranoia scam without even researching it casts doubt on everything else you're trying to say.

[Nightgaunt]

you've *got* to be kidding me...

you pretty much just shot the credibility of your entire argument in the ass. do you even know what "dihydrogen monoxide" is?

h20 - it's freaking *water*! you're complaining about *water* in our food?

i might be able to take your other arguments a bit more seriously if i thought you'd actually researched anything, but the fact that you bought the "dihydrogen monoxide" paranoia scam without even researching it casts doubt on everything else you're trying to say.

[Lillylu29]

I'll be absent from CC for awhile until they get something in place for us smokers. I'll be going to Assemblage and Covenant but that's about it. I'll just hit the parties around here until CC figures out what they are going to do. This is bullshit!3